Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Mace was helping a wounded Shaak Tii out the door or something and GG jumped in front of him and ignited all his lightsabers, then Mace just held out one hand crushed him, then kept on going.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJk1aip3pl8
Yes look at 3:42.
Originally posted by darthsith19Does it matter? Because the key question is WHEN did he lose alot of power? Its in revenge of the sith so i don't see how this eliminates the fact that he has regained his powers throughout the year.
Well that was said on the ESB AC. He has lost a lot of power, not he lost a lot of power. It was speaking in context of ESB.
Oh and just to add to that, having raw power alone is useless if you lack the skills and mastery to fully utilise the force,
Originally posted by darthsith19Because losing potential IS losing power. And you forget that vader was in the suit for barely 2 minutes yet he still was able to crush an entire room. But do not forget that vader was in a small cramped room when he let out his rage. So of course you can't compare it to what he did in LOE.
That could be it, but then why does Lucas say "he's lost a lot of the power in the Force and has lost a lot of feasibility to be more powerful than the Emperor" and not just one of the other? Destroying some objects that reside within a medical room is nothing compared to LoE Anakin making a football stadium sized room collapse by simply yelling.
But again even despite being in the suit, he was able to choke xizor millions of lightyears away in the bounty hunter wars.(Acstyles hinted this)
I mean its a bit confusing exactly what he lost in power and potential and what he made up with his better mastery of the force over the years.
The way i see it(and this is just my own speculation, so dnt start having a go at me to produce evidence) that the power of the Force comes from your midi-chlorian concentration. They measured Anakins in TPM from just a small blood sample. So loosing body parts should not effect this concentration. Otherwise if the mass of your body made a difference then Yoda, for example would be very weak.
So basically his Force powers should be the same. And if we look at Vaders Force powers over the years (including at the end of ROTS) theres certainly no eveidence of his Force powers having weakened. and there was never any mention or hint of that in the films.
However what could have been effected was his physical abilites. Jedis/Siths use the Force to give them their physical abilities i.e. jumping, leaping, moving fast and agile e.tc. But with Vader now when he calls on the Force to do this he will have to use his powers not just to move him around but his whole machinery as well. This will take extra use of his powers to do this in hand to hand combat.
But with his extra mastery of the force and lightsaber combat forms over the years who knows how much he might have made up in this respect. It must certainly help that his armour already has super human strength.
Also Lucas says that "he lost a lot of feasibilty to become more powrful than the Emporer", this to me shows he could still do it, but it wouldtake him a lot longer.
Neway thats just my theory. Let me know what you think.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Does it matter? Because the key question is WHEN did he lose alot of power? Its in revenge of the sith so i don't see how this eliminates the fact that he has regained his powers throughout the year.
That would be just fine if Lucas had stated "he lost a lot of power [by becoming more machine than man]" but instead he said "he has lost a lot of power." which is in present context.
Oh and just to add to that, having raw power alone is useless if you lack the skills and mastery to fully utilise the force,
Because losing potential IS losing power.
And you forget that vader was in the suit for barely 2 minutes yet he still was able to crush an entire room. But do not forget that vader was in a small cramped room when he let out his rage. So of course you can't compare it to what he did in LOE.
But again even despite being in the suit, he was able to choke xizor millions of lightyears away in the bounty hunter wars.(Acstyles hinted this)
CW grievous was very powerful, able to take on numerous jedi at a time, even able to dodge a force push, believe it or not. Of course, vader could take on many jedi at a time also, though i'm not sure he could do it as good as grievous. (Grievous defeated five jedi at a time, and Ki-Adi-Mundi, Aayla Secura, and Shaak Ti were among them!)
Originally posted by skywalker833
CW grievous was very powerful, able to take on numerous jedi at a time, even able to dodge a force push, believe it or not. Of course, vader could take on many jedi at a time also, though i'm not sure he could do it as good as grievous. (Grievous defeated five jedi at a time, and Ki-Adi-Mundi, Aayla Secura, and Shaak Ti were among them!)
I think Ki-Adi-Mundi did note that those 5 jedi were all exhausted from battle at the time Greivous engaged them. Howevewr he also noted how surprised he was that anything could take on 5 Jedis at once exhausted or not..
But There seems to be a big gap in Jedi powers between most the Jedi Council Members and Obi-Wan, Mace, Anakin and Yoda. For example was what Greivous did any more impressive than Sidious taking out 3 Jedi Council members in 3 seconds??? I dnt think anyone would dispute that even Obi-Wan would put up at least a half decent fight against Sidious before getting owned by him.
Originally posted by skywalker833
Not sure how accurate that TV show was though...
Its cannon I think, but some things like ForcePowers were greatly exagerated. A good example of this is Mace taking out more droids by himself with a couple of Force pushes than all the Jedis on Genosia(including Mace) could put together!
However when talking about Greivous vs. Jedis im pretty sure thats all cannon.
Originally posted by darthsith19Look at the word has lost, it was clearly in reference to the mustafar duel, tell me DS. Was he losing power in TESB if the quote was in reference to the present time? If he was i want to to substantiate HOW.
That would be just fine if Lucas had stated "he lost a lot of power [by becoming more machine than man]" but instead he said "he has lost a lot of power." which is in present context.
Originally posted by darthsith19Does not matter, what use is great power if you don't have the skills and mastery to properly command it?
Agreed, but Lucas says power, not raw power
I can have the greatest machine gun in the world but what use is it if i don't know how to operate it?
Originally posted by darthsith19You still don't get it. The whole reason why anakin would have been the most powerful force user ever is due to the fact that he has the most potential which would mean he wields the most power. Losing potential IS losing power.
So that means that Lucas has to say the same thing twice in the same sentence? Lol.
But i'd rather gideon clear this up for the benefit for the BOTH of us. Can agree do that?
Originally posted by darthsith19Pay attention to the walls DS, they DID get crushed, and the background of the room was so dark that it is impossible to see the FULL extent of his attack. And so what if the novel says differently? We didn't see EVERY part of the room, hell we didn't even see the entire room in one shot.
No, I didn't forget that. And the entire room didn't get crushed, watch again - only some of the medical apparatus gets crushed. If the script of novel say differently, it doesn't matter, because the movie overrides them.
Originally posted by darthsith19Lol how good you have to do that? Then what is so great about nadd doing that to vodo? If it isn't so great, why the hell is people barking about how he attacked someone lightyears away?
Alright, but how good do you have to be to do that? We never see pre-suit Vader do anything like this but with TK he has done things that suited Vader has never surprassed (that I am aware of) that is collapsing the room in LoE. It doesn't matter though cause Lucas's word is final.
Yes lucas words are final, but he didn't say he couldn't recover seeing that novels indicate that vader is progressing in the force as of his current state, hell even advent agreed to that.
Oh and to add to that, darth vader still could rip out a bridge into pieces, bring down a tree larger than the pillar dooku took down,choke some one halfway across the galaxy, grab his secret apprentice when he first met him(he was a jedi with a blue saber) and fling him around effortlessly like a ragdoll overpowering his force defences.
Look at the word has lost, it was clearly in reference to the mustafar duel, tell me DS. Was he losing power in TESB if the quote was in reference to the present time? If he was i want to to substantiate HOW.
Lucas is talking about ESB and he says "now". now = ESB, because that's the movie he is talking about and it's the movie that is playing. He wouldn't say "and now" and be referring to "now" as the end of ROTS.
Does not matter, what use is great power if you don't have the skills and mastery to properly command it?I can have the greatest machine gun in the world but what use is it if i don't know how to operate it?
You still don't get it. The whole reason why anakin would have been the most powerful force user ever is due to the fact that he has the most potential which would mean he wields the most power. Losing potential IS losing power.
Pay attention to the walls DS, they DID get crushed, and the background of the room was so dark that it is impossible to see the FULL extent of his attack. And so what if the novel says differently? We didn't see EVERY part of the room, hell we didn't even see the entire room in one shot.
you're right, it is diffiult to see what all was crushed there, but the room is certainly smaller and far less damaged that the one that LoE Anakin destroyed, which completely collapsed.
Lol how good you have to do that? Then what is so great about nadd doing that to vodo? If it isn't so great, why the hell is people barking about how he attacked someone lightyears away?
Oh and to add to that, darth vader still could rip out a bridge into pieces, bring down a tree larger than the pillar dooku took down,choke some one halfway across the galaxy, grab his secret apprentice when he first met him(he was a jedi with a blue saber) and fling him around effortlessly like a ragdoll overpowering his force defences.
Yes lucas words are final, but he didn't say he couldn't recover seeing that novels indicate that vader is progressing in the force as of his current state, hell even advent agreed to that.