Yoda vs. Sidious rematch (no where to fall)

Originally posted by wolfpack86
The way "I" perceived the fight he "did" disarm him, I mean really, when Yoda chucked the senate pod back up at Sidious, and Sidious jumped down to another pod, he was looking all frightened and scared, like where is he, where is he, at that point if he "actually" did have his saber "I" think it would have been a good time to pull it out, don't you?

Then factor in Yoda's necessity to use the Force to power his sporadic movements. He's gonna burn out. Throw in Yoda's thoughts from the novelization, and I just don't see how changing the environment is gonna help him here.

And there's a pretty nasty drop right outside that hangar by the way.

Spot on logic. While it's possible and arguable that Yoda disarmed Sidious, as he demonstrated enough skill to do so, one would also have to account for Sidious -- unarmed -- managing to escape from a lightsaber wielding Yoda in close quarters combat and put that much distance between them.

Yeah, but the problem is Yoda's lightsaber was sent flying away by Palpatine's lightning, so both of them would be unarmed.

then it just all comes down to wrestling... No wonder GL ended when he did. Yoda hanging onto Sidous leg, trying to wrestle him to the ground, sidous shaking his leg around trying to shake him off... nobody wanted to see that. 😄

I see no reason why the results wouldn't be the same as in ROTS. Sure Yoda only lost because he is smaller and lighter, and therefore flew off the senate pod further than Sidious did, but size is a factor in a fight and not an excuse. In this fight, there is a place to fall off, too, the cliff right outside the hanger. If Sidious were losing he would do whatever he needs to do to win, and would go out there if he had to.

So I think Sidious wins the all-out and the Force. He was winning the majority of the Force duel in ROTS, up until the very end when they seemed even. Yoda wins the saber fight though, he was superior in ROTS when he disarmed Sidious and I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do so again.

Short-version: Same results as in ROTS.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I see no reason why the results wouldn't be the same as in ROTS. Sure Yoda only lost because he is smaller and lighter, and therefore flew off the senate pod further than Sidious did, but size is a factor in a fight and not an excuse. In this fight, there is a place to fall off, too, the cliff right outside the hanger. If Sidious were losing he would do whatever he needs to do to win, and would go out there if he had to.

You heard it here first; if there's a drop, Yoda loses.

He was winning the majority of the Force duel in ROTS, up until the very end when they seemed even.

So Sidious wins the all-out and I think the Force, too.

speculation. you really cant incorporate the way "YOU" percieve it into a debate/verdict on who would win something.

Originally posted by Faunus

Why would he win the all-out for sure, but you would "think" he takes the Force contest? Considering Yoda's a Jedi, the only ways he'd be able to kill Sidious in a Force battle would be by dropping that crane on his head or knocking him over the edge of the cliff. In an all-out fight I would go with Yoda, although it'd be tight to say the least.

Though Yoda is no less than Sidious's equal in Force strength, it's a simple truth that, ultimately, Sidious has a much more offensive arsenal of Force powers at his command. Likewise, Yoda's lightsaber versus Sidious's Force lightning = weaponless Yoda. He'd put up a fight, but the context of the fight is against him. He loses the Force fight, for sure, and it's arguable that he could win the lightsaber fight. But as for an all out duel? I'm not so sure.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
speculation. you really cant incorporate the way "YOU" percieve it into a debate/verdict on who would win something.

Originally posted by Gideon
Though Yoda is no less than Sidious's equal in Force strength, it's a simple truth that, ultimately, Sidious has a much more offensive arsenal of Force powers at his command. Likewise, Yoda's lightsaber versus Sidious's Force lightning = weaponless Yoda. He'd put up a fight, but the context of the fight is against him. He loses the Force fight, for sure, and it's arguable that he could win the lightsaber fight. But as for an all out duel? I'm not so sure.

I think nobody's sure of this one.

Originally posted by Faunus
That's what this is, genius. Speculation. We don't know what would happen if the fight were take place in another location, so we speculate. Stop trying to sound smart.

not trying anything. if "you" percieved it as smart, then thats what it was.

didnt understand that we were debating through opinions and speculations, in wich case

they fight untill they are both tired, and then the moomu brothers attack and kill them both.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Why bother, Yoda lights his saber up twice during the Pod-hucking scene, and never even gets close to Palpatine. A direct blast of lightning at Yoda, and away goes his saber. It's also odd to note that, even if Yoda DID relieve Palpatine of his saber, Palpatine still manages to get all way the up to a Senate pod, stories above Yoda's head, and rip another two out of the wall to send them careening at Yoda. If that was Palpatine after getting legitimately disarmed by Yoda, then Yoda's poor timing is gonna lose him the fight.

Then factor in Yoda's necessity to use the Force to power his sporadic movements. He's gonna burn out. Throw in Yoda's thoughts from the novelization, and I just don't see how changing the environment is gonna help him here.

And there's a pretty nasty drop right outside that hangar by the way.

Let's just say for the sake of the argument, that neither of them will be doing any falling.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Then factor in Yoda's necessity to use the Force to power his sporadic movements. He's gonna burn out. Throw in Yoda's thoughts from the novelization, and I just don't see how changing the environment is gonna help him here.

Originally posted by truejedi
then it just all comes down to wrestling... No wonder GL ended when he did. Yoda hanging onto Sidous leg, trying to wrestle him to the ground, sidous shaking his leg around trying to shake him off... nobody wanted to see that. 😄

when i wrote this, i was kidding, but when you think about it, if sidious has lost his weapon, and is gonna try to fry Yoda, Yoda's best move is to just grab on and wrestle. Sidious couldn't hit him with lightning when he's hanging on to him. he could even have quoted Python's, "I'll gnaw your knees off" if lucas had let him.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
not trying anything. if "you" percieved it as smart, then thats what it was.

No, it wasn't smart, because it's pretty obvious that on a fight like this the only thing we can do is speculate. Why? Because we can't be completely sure about the outcome, as opposed to other fights.

didnt understand that we were debating through opinions and speculations, in wich case

Originally posted by 0ºMandalore0º
Well, partly. If you are 100% certain that Person X would beat Person Y, and all evidence available points that way, it is not speculation, it is fact. We only speculate in fights like this, I guess, when we can't really say with certainty how would it turn out.

Secondary sources, such as The New Essential Chronology and the ROTS novelization state that Yoda was overpowered and could not have won.

The movie, on the other hand, does nothing to reinforce this. It is interesting to note that Sidious seemed to be amused throughout the duel, while Yoda maintains a look of severity plastered over his face the whole time. There is no indication that Palpatine ever feared losing.

Also, the looks on their faces during the lightning struggle don't prove anything. They both exchanged expressions of exertion at different points.

Originally posted by Elok Quintly
There is no indication that Palpatine ever feared losing.

Palpatine, a man who willingly hurled himself at four of the Jedi Order's finest swordsmen after touching his lightsaber for the first time in over a decade, did attempt to flee the duel before hand, which is a good indicator that, given Yoda's status and reputation, he knew full well that there was an excellent chance that he could lose the engagement, and whereas Yoda's expression throughout the duel indicated pain, Palpatine -- during the Force-lightning-war on the Senate pod -- made facial expressions evident of fear or self concern. That said, he is a Sith Lord, and one who just achieved galactic domination, so self-preservation would be a high priority.

I suppose it is a subjective matter. To me, Palpatine's facial expressions during the lighting-struggle were indicative of strain and effort.

While I concede that Palpatine and Yoda were most likely evenly matched in lightsaber combat, I do not believe that they are equals in Force ability.

Yoda vs Sidious video

Right at 3:40, the tide turns and Sidious looks quite afraid and pained.