Darkseid Vs. WW Hulk Fist Fight

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah I heard something about that, would you mind explaining and save me some research time?

Also, the comics are consistantly referencing pre-crisis stories for all of the characters, recently Batman mentioned to Superman about fighting Mordru, which happened in the JLA of the 70's.

Pre Crisis is in continuity, John Byrne's reboot- is not.

Originally posted by Juntai
Simple, his origin stories are back to their pre-crisis state. He's had all his awesome power since he was a very young child, and left and went to the future as Superboy, to hang out with the Legion of Superheros. Byrne's reboot is a giant contradiction to all of this.

Also, the comics are consistantly referencing pre-crisis stories for all of the characters, recently Batman mentioned to Superman about fighting Mordru, which happened in the JLA of the 70's.

Pre Crisis is in continuity, John Byrne's reboot- is not.

Does this then mean that He, DS, Orion and Kalibak are all at Precrisis strength levels? Including Doomsday? It would have to in order for the stories to make sense. where does that put KC Superman? Wonder Woman? black Adam? ETC?

Originally posted by leonidas
no way classic thor takes out terrax as easily as sentry did . . . 😬

Correct. Sentry is underrated I think because he seems to be considered to have "burnt out" vs WWH, but in reality, WWH is an insanely powerful monster when it comes to stopping, much less having any hope of putting down. Sentry lasted a hell of a lot longer than anyone I've ever seen vs one of the strongest versions of Hulk yet.

Hence a lot of people dont really understand exactly what Reynolds actually managed to pull off. It was pretty much what was considered almost unthinkable by any and everyone who has faced WWH.

What was that? To stop WWH's rage of destruction.

1. He in essense stopped Banner by taking the full brunt of WWH's onslaught. Why did he have to do so? So that he could utilize a vital power he posesses - Calming Presence. It was what allowed Sentry to not get completed trashed in minutes by WWH. He got WWH to focus on him, kept him in range and calmed him as much as possible... all the while fully engaging him head on - a feat to which not many people in comics today are capable of.

Sentry did a kickass job of diverting WWHulks rampage, easing his rage level long enough for Stark to help him to counter WWH's insane gamma levels. For Sentry to kick out that much energy defensively, offensively and utilizing his calming ability for such a long period of time pretty much makes him top tier in my book.

Almost anyone else attempting that would've gotten trashed in short time IMO.

Originally posted by Juntai
Simple, his origin stories are back to their pre-crisis state. He's had all his awesome power since he was a very young child, and left and went to the future as Superboy, to hang out with the Legion of Superheros. Byrne's reboot is a giant contradiction to all of this.

Also, the comics are consistantly referencing pre-crisis stories for all of the characters, recently Batman mentioned to Superman about fighting Mordru, which happened in the JLA of the 70's.

Pre Crisis is in continuity, John Byrne's reboot- is not.

And how "in continuity" is Supes's PC days?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So how far "out of continuity" is Byrnes? If referencing Pre-Crisis stories is enough to show that they're them back into continuity than it seems that any reference to anything that happened during the Byrne's period is enough to KEEP it in continuity. I mean did Supes never meet Matrix Supergirl now? Did things like the DOS saga never happen?

And how "in continuity" is Supes's PC days?

Now thats a great question.

In all honesty, all the things that sentry have and has done, he is basically> a lot of top tiers out there and in my eyes (I dont say this about a lot of characters) has the ability to beat thor and could possibly get some wins over surfer and thor. I agree with horrors post when he said that sentry accomplished something that almost noone could have accomplished and that was beat wwh. Sentry feats against other bricks just make him appear very powerful. He made short work of everyone. Thats why when hes put against other top tiers like wonder woman, maritan manhunter, superman, etc..

I just cant see sentry getting stomped by titus, konvikt, and I could actually see him going h2h with despero and throwing him in the sun. I guess Im giving sentry to much credit but he is marked as the most powerful hero in marvel for a reason.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So how far "out of continuity" is Byrnes? If referencing Pre-Crisis stories is enough to show that they're back into continuity than it seems that any reference to anything that happened during the Byrne's period is enough to KEEP it in continuity. I mean did Supes never meet Matrix Supergirl now? Did things like the DOS saga never happen?

And how "in continuity" is Supes's PC days?

It's the origin written in Man of Steel in 1986 to reboot Superman[A 6 issue mini-series] is what is out of continuity. Birthright Origin and Man of Steel Origin have been replaced by "New Earth" origin, which hasn't been explored entirely yet, but obviously includes his pre-crisis comics.

However, his new origin, and discounting his reboot and depowering in Man of Steel, leaves many of the feats and some stories from the later 80's and early 90s almost entirely out of continuity, or taken with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by Juntai
And leaves things like him needing a jetpack and breathing aparatus to travel space silly at best.

Originally posted by Juntai
Apperently the old JLA stories are in continuity to Superman and Batman since they were discussing it[that JLA series would take us all the way back to 1960 if all are in continuity as a reference to the series would suggest], as are Superboy and the Legion of Superheros. Those are two major one's I'm recalling offhand.

It's the origin written in Man of Steel in 1986 to reboot Superman[A 6 issue mini-series] is what is out of continuity. Birthright Origin and Man of Steel Origin have been replaced by "New Earth" origin, which hasn't been explored entirely yet, but obviously includes his pre-crisis comics.

However, his new origin, and discounting his reboot and depowering in Man of Steel, leaves many of the feats and some stories from the later 80's and early 90s almost entirely out of continuity, or taken with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I thought that it was specifically mentioned that he was overloading AM with his strength? I know the whole "million exploding suns" was mentioned in reference to how powerful Sentry was, but I seem to remember physical strength being the basis for the overload(though I guess I could be remembering wrong).

This, however, is how he was 'killed'..

"You couldn't even absorb the energy of a single planet - let's see how you do with the power of one million exploding suns":

======

"Creel melts with the power of a million exploding suns":

Originally posted by darthgoober
So he's vulnerable to things like Gold K-nite again?

At least, I think that's gold k-nite? 😮

Originally posted by darthgoober
So he's vulnerable to things like Gold K-nite again?

Some things however are a little messed now as a result, and will have to get cleared up over time...

Here's an example;
Post Crisis, Mongul met Superman for the very first time in Superman 32 [1989], collected in Superman Exile. They didn't even recognize eachother.

However, For the Man Who Has Everything, 1985, seems to be back in continuity as well with several references over time... where Mongul puts a Black Mercy on Superman 4 years prior to their first meeting?

I doubt Bats would be storing it as a safeguard, if it were ineffective against Supes:

At least, I think that's gold k-nite? 😮

Originally posted by darthgoober
Who cares if he's stronger than a Superman level brick if Supes's strength is sufficient to put DS down? And going strictly by what's happened "on-panel", what feats of strength does DS have that puts him over Hulk?
And what speculation are you referring to exactly?

And I was saying that you were trying to base Wwh's power off his title alone, rather than on panel feats......

I don't remember what issue, but I remember seeing the scan here on KMC. But I may have had it wrong before because someone else said that it wasn't a galaxy destroying blast and that it was set to destroy an entire dimension(which is actually MORE impressive).

That's just it, that reasoning IS used to support virtually every major character EXCEPT the Hulk here on KMC. If we discount Byrne's Supes's low showings and Surfer's low showings from his exile on Earth because the two have been recognized as being more powerful now than they were back in the day then Hulk should receive similar treatment since it's been well established that he's more powerful than ever.

Ugh...what? Those showings need to be disregarded, for the fact that they are not they're most consistent portrayals. Honestly Goob, anyone who measures Superman abilities, strictly from his bryne showings are clearly....idiotic. Those eras need to be ignored, because they were merely a low point in for the said characters history. Those feats have been greatly outweighed by their showings throughout their overall history.

I don't see how you can apply that logic to the whole World War Hulk ordeal. Wwh is just a varient of the character(like Superman Blue or Cosmic Spider-man). Rather you like it or not, it's irrational to claim Wwh can beat a certain character just because he's the strongest incarnation. In that case, I could start saying that Darkseid is Galactus level, because he's omnipotent. Again, feats are all that matter at the end of the day.😬

Originally posted by Juntai
Yep. However it's effects aren't permanent as originall thought. Metallo had some in his chest in a recent issue, and mentioned that it only temporarily removes a kryptonians powers. Not much different than red sun rays, which prevent Superman from accessing his powers temporarily as well.

Some things however are a little messed now as a result, and will have to get cleared up over time...

Here's an example;
Post Crisis, Mongul met Superman for the very first time in Superman 32 [1989], collected in Superman Exile. They didn't even recognize eachother.

However, For the Man Who Has Everything, 1985, seems to be back in continuity as well with several references over time... where Mongul puts a Black Mercy on Superman 4 years prior to their first meeting?

But this actually sounds pretty interesting so I might PM you in a while to discuss possible repercussions. You're one of a select few posters who I trust to be honest and it's cool to have a discussion without feeling the need to immediately get the book to verify everything the other guy says 🙂 .

Originally posted by darthgoober
Man DC just LOVES to make shit difficult to follow don't they 😂 . I sometimes think they keep revamping the universe just so people will have to buy every issue of DC comics ever written to understand what the Hell's going on at any given time.

But this actually sounds pretty interesting so I might PM you in a while to discuss possible repercussions. You're one of a select few posters who I trust to be honest and it's cool to have a discussion without feeling the need to immediately get the book to verify everything the other guy says 🙂 .

Originally posted by darthgoober
Man DC just LOVES to make shit difficult to follow don't they 😂 . I sometimes think they keep revamping the universe just so people will have to buy every issue of DC comics ever written to understand what the Hell's going on at any given time.

But this actually sounds pretty interesting so I might PM you in a while to discuss possible repercussions. You're one of a select few posters who I trust to be honest and it's cool to have a discussion without feeling the need to immediately get the book to verify everything the other guy says 🙂 .

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
Superman has only beaten Darkseid [b]once, in a pure slugfest.😬
[/B]

Originally posted by fangirl101
DS wasn't even knocked out by an ALE aspect. I fail to see how WWHULk is going to get a victory over someone with that Kind of Durability. I don't see it happening.

Originally posted by leonidas
no way classic thor takes out terrax as easily as sentry did . . . 😬

Originally posted by fangirl101
Why on Earth would anyone lie about a comic? I tend to think most everyone tells the truth as they see it. And it's up to you to see things the way that you want thru pros and cons and looking at the panels for yourself. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Galan007
I can think of 2 occasions.

Originally posted by Hazsekswthurmom
But one of them wasn't a [b]pure slugfest. [/B]