Originally posted by Diamond KissesReally? It has been so long since I played it's hard to remember. Fist of Heaven's stronger than any ranged attack? I'll admit that when it destroys an enormous castle while the Pally is barely able to stand, freezes a whole city, or causes a mini earthquake. I cannot remember all of the Pally's auras...so you need to be more specific on what it does. Spams Fists of Heaven? I know for a fact that takes Mana, whereas Ganon's magic reserves are limitless.
[b]Talking about mana and the auras? All but the replenish aura is costless in mana. The only reason that specific aura cost mana is because it exchanges mana for health. He also has the aura that replenishes his mana rapidly and for free. If Ganon decides to fly around, that is his misstake. The Fist of Heavens never miss and is likely stronger than any ranged attack Ganon has. The Paladin with the holy shield and indestructable pre-Holy Shield which is probably a large shield covering his entire body can take as many fireballs as Ganon feel like shooting, while he spams Fists of Heaven.Assuming the Paladin can only use one type of aura, I would say he should use Convition and spam Fists of Heaven. That way, Ganon's ranged attacks would not be near as dangerous as the Paladins.
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Okay, but Ganon can still get in close with a speedblitz, and is undeniably able to hit harder with a punch than a Pally does with his weapon, Ganon disintegrates niggas.
paly uses the mana replenish aura (it replinishes it way too fast for most spells to take it away)..
a paly with the right armour can teleport way from ganon's speedblitz..id like to see him move faster than those crazy midget *****s from act 3 😛
just a side note
i dont really like palys..they are prejeduce against necros..you always see them gang up on necros, but not sorcs or any other class..i ask myself - "if necros are so piss weak, why do they need 2 or more palys to kill me?? 😬
but if i have one on my team, then they are suddenly my best friend 😛
Originally posted by MadMel1. Only one aura at a time, and he will need ones to protect himself.
paly uses the mana replenish aura (it replinishes it way too fast for most spells to take it away)..
a paly with the right armour can teleport way from ganon's speedblitz..id like to see him move faster than those crazy midget *****s from act 3 😛
just a side note
i dont really like palys..they are prejeduce against necros..you always see them gang up on necros, but not sorcs or any other class..i ask myself - "if necros are so piss weak, why do they need 2 or more palys to kill me?? 😬
but if i have one on my team, then they are suddenly my best friend 😛
2. What, with Enigma? Not allowed. The Flayers? He is faster, especially when teleport is taken into account.
3. Nah, they do it on Barbs too, I was once ambushed by 4 Hammerdin Pallys. The bastards. Then when I'm on their teams, they always beg me for BO.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Only one aura at a time, and he will need ones to protect himself.2. What, with Enigma? Not allowed. The Flayers? He is faster, especially when teleport is taken into account.
3. Nah, they do it on Barbs too, I was once ambushed by 4 Hammerdin Pallys. The bastards. Then when I'm on their teams, they always beg me for BO.
1. Ever heard of the Aura Flasher strategy? Swiftly, strategicaly switching between multiple auras, using their different strengths for varius situations. The Aura effect takes place instantly and we are talking about a PERFECT AI and not just a good AI here.
3. The paladins had to suck, or been crappy gear. It takes one hammerdin with enigma to bring one necromancer down and one hammerdin with enigma to bring a barbarian down 😛
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
[B]Really? It has been so long since I played it's hard to remember. Fist of Heaven's stronger than any ranged attack? I'll admit that when it destroys an enormous castle while the Pally is barely able to stand, freezes a whole city, or causes a mini earthquake. I cannot remember all of the Pally's auras...so you need to be more specific on what it does. Spams Fists of Heaven? I know for a fact that takes Mana, whereas Ganon's magic reserves are limitless.Okay, but Ganon can still get in close with a speedblitz, and is undeniably able to hit harder with a punch than a Pally does with his weapon, Ganon disintegrates niggas.
Ganon has disintegrated one person, who for all we know might not have been very endurant ermm Ganon is also vulnerable to the Light sword and the Light arrow. A mighty bolt of light from the holy heaven is likely to do him harm. Especially since it never missses. Assuming he has faster cast-rate, this is a hell of a spam comming up. With Vigor Aura maxed, charms and faster run/walk, the Paladin can kite Ganon forever. Especially with an indestructable shield and the immense blockrate and armor that a paladin has.[/b]
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxxnot really, if a pally can spam a no miss uber weapon like FOH, theres ni need to protect himself...i doubt gano will be able to shrug off such a powerfull assult and just keep charging
1. Only one aura at a time, and he will need ones to protect himself.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxxannoyig s.o.b.s though 😛
2. What, with Enigma? Not allowed. The Flayers? He is faster, especially when teleport is taken into account.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Nah, they do it on Barbs too, I was once ambushed by 4 Hammerdin Pallys. The bastards. Then when I'm on their teams, they always beg me for BO.
3. The paladins had to suck, or been crappy gear. It takes one hammerdin with enigma to bring one necromancer downunless that necro is me.....or john 😈
Originally posted by Diamond Kisses1. Of course, but he cannot do all simultaneously.
[b]1. Ever heard of the Aura Flasher strategy? Swiftly, strategicaly switching between multiple auras, using their different strengths for varius situations. The Aura effect takes place instantly and we are talking about a PERFECT AI and not just a good AI here.3. The paladins had to suck, or been crappy gear. It takes one hammerdin with enigma to bring one necromancer down and one hammerdin with enigma to bring a barbarian down 😛
Ganon has disintegrated one person, who for all we know might not have been very endurant ermm Ganon is also vulnerable to the Light sword and the Light arrow. A mighty bolt of light from the holy heaven is likely to do him harm. Especially since it never missses. Assuming he has faster cast-rate, this is a hell of a spam comming up. With Vigor Aura maxed, charms and faster run/walk, the Paladin can kite Ganon forever. Especially with an indestructable shield and the immense blockrate and armor that a paladin has.
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2. I have never had my main Barb beaten by a Pally one-on-one.
3. One person, and Sages are among the most powerful beings in LoZ. Also, no Pally to my knowledge jas ever disintegrated anything. Ganon without the Triforce of Power tanked a Master Sword to the head, it could only seal him. Faster run? Not seen proof on that claim. Indestructable? Ever been hit by enough power to freeze a city, disintegrating punches, or enough power to topple a castle? Didn't think so, saying it is indestructible to anything would be a No-Limit Fallacy. Immense block rate? Gameplay, Ganon's blows would be so crushing he would stagger back and be left open in a real, cutscene-style fight.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Of course, but he cannot do all simultaneously.2. I have never had my main Barb beaten by a Pally one-on-one.
3. One person, and Sages are among the most powerful beings in LoZ. Also, no Pally to my knowledge jas ever disintegrated anything. Ganon without the Triforce of Power tanked a Master Sword to the head, it could only seal him. Faster run? Not seen proof on that claim. Indestructable? Ever been hit by enough power to freeze a city, disintegrating punches, or enough power to topple a castle? Didn't think so, saying it is indestructible to anything would be a No-Limit Fallacy. Immense block rate? Gameplay, Ganon's blows would be so crushing he would stagger back and be left open in a real, cutscene-style fight.
1. he will have every Aura he has on him, unless were talking these characters as just gameplay
2. "omg you must beee ze uburz!", no then youll just have to find a "good" pally then. Hammerdins deal tens of thousands of magic damage per second and their hammers end up spinning around the battlefield, their endurance is massive and enigma allows teleport, your stuffed as a barb half the time since hes a ranged dude who can teleprot wheras even if you do have enigma, your still a melee guy with teleport, and usually melee weapons dont hit 35k dmg per hammer blow and swarm the battlefield.
3. Power does not equel endurant, old wizards can prob die from a hammer blow where a knight would survive several, yet a wizard with the power in his finger tips to destroy continents is still more powerful. Paladins distinegrate all the time, i just put my frost aura up and the damage sometimes makes enemies shatter if not always on lower levels. enough "power" to freeze a city? its indestructable how is freezing a city going to help, sage disintegrating punches are not neccerily impressive, yu just assume they are. Then again saying Ganon can break it is not only assuming against a fact, but hes not even that powerful in comparison to many beings, if it says indestructable theres no much you can do.....it means it cannot be broken. No in a cutscene fight Tyrael would one hit ganon 😛 seriously however why would he stagger? Ganon will prob screech as his hand touches the holy surface of the indestructable shield.
Originally posted by Burning thought1. Show me a Pally using all his auras at once.
1. he will have every Aura he has on him, unless were talking these characters as just gameplay2. "omg you must beee ze uburz!", no then youll just have to find a "good" pally then. Hammerdins deal tens of thousands of magic damage per second and their hammers end up spinning around the battlefield, their endurance is massive and enigma allows teleport, your stuffed as a barb half the time since hes a ranged dude who can teleprot wheras even if you do have enigma, your still a melee guy with teleport, and usually melee weapons dont hit 35k dmg per hammer blow and swarm the battlefield.
3. Power does not equel endurant, old wizards can prob die from a hammer blow where a knight would survive several, yet a wizard with the power in his finger tips to destroy continents is still more powerful. Paladins distinegrate all the time, i just put my frost aura up and the damage sometimes makes enemies shatter if not always on lower levels. enough "power" to freeze a city? its indestructable how is freezing a city going to help, sage disintegrating punches are not neccerily impressive, yu just assume they are. Then again saying Ganon can break it is not only assuming against a fact, but hes not even that powerful in comparison to many beings, if it says indestructable theres no much you can do.....it means it cannot be broken. No in a cutscene fight Tyrael would one hit ganon 😛 seriously however why would he stagger? Ganon will prob screech as his hand touches the holy surface of the indestructable shield.
3. So we assume that some of the most powerful beings in LoZ are weak and frail? Nah...shattering ice is not disintegration, it is funny you compared that to what Ganon did. Yes, enough power to freeze a city. He would freeze that dinky shield and one punch it. Or, just freeze the Pally, who has never been shown to take a freezing that could freeze a city. Sage disintegrating punchs not impressive? Show me a Pally, hell, show me ANYTHING in Diablo disintegrating something with a punch. He is powerful compared to any being to hit that shield. So it's indestructible? Could Odin from Marvel not break it? What about Superman Prime...no too low, I guess that Galactus could not break it either? In a cutscene fight, Odin would one shot Tyrael. What is your point? And that is a Red Herring. He would stagger because Ganon is several times stronger than him, has a powerful sword, and is faster(unless you prove the Pally is). Screech from touching the shield? Didn't screech when he was stabbed in the head by the superior Master Sword.
- I can show you a paladin using three auras at once. In fact, I can show you a necromancer that uses two auras at once 😛
- Since when does it mean that just because a sage is the most powerful beings there is, they have incredible endurance? Anveena of Warcraft has more power than any sage and she would be finished in a few slashes. Power does not equal endurance. Show me what the sages have survived before and I might reconsider my statement.
- The Paladin withstands direct smashes from Diablo, a physical powerhouse. Call me crazy, but I think Diablo's physical strength > Ganons.
Re: Paladin (Diablo) Vs. Ganon (/W touch of balance)
Originally posted by Nozdormu
- Paladin with full skill-tree, top level, perfect AI and top-gear (Chosen by debator, but no enigma). Game mechanics disabled (Such as 95% block rate, incapability of jumping and handicap movement), but game-skills touched with lore and common sense included. Enigma is not permitted. His resistances is instead of percent converted into just plain resistance to all damage. Charge/Smite spam unallowed. Game attributes still applies, only taken up with common sense and not actual "numbers", whereas 1000 = Perfect and 15 = Very terrible.- Ganon without the plot immortality (Weapons of light/triforce immortality), his ability to destroy the soul/spirit is also removed. He is limited to only summon a hand-few minions, and he has been forced to wear a plate helmet to cover his not too pretty face from public.
- Defeat by knock-out or incapability of continuance, death not necessary.
- Setting is a random forest.
I think you buffed the paladin too hard... with a full skill tree, the paladin curb stomps ganon, IMO
Fist of Heavens / Blessed Hammer spam, ftw? then just use Vigor aura to keep out of ganons range
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Show me a Pally using all his auras at once.3. So we assume that some of the most powerful beings in LoZ are weak and frail? Nah...shattering ice is not disintegration, it is funny you compared that to what Ganon did. Yes, enough power to freeze a city. He would freeze that dinky shield and one punch it. Or, just freeze the Pally, who has never been shown to take a freezing that could freeze a city. Sage disintegrating punchs not impressive? Show me a Pally, hell, show me ANYTHING in Diablo disintegrating something with a punch. He is powerful compared to any being to hit that shield. So it's indestructible? Could Odin from Marvel not break it? What about Superman Prime...no too low, I guess that Galactus could not break it either? In a cutscene fight, Odin would one shot Tyrael. What is your point? And that is a Red Herring. He would stagger because Ganon is several times stronger than him, has a powerful sword, and is faster(unless you prove the Pally is). Screech from touching the shield? Didn't screech when he was stabbed in the head by the superior Master Sword.
1. I dont need to because an Aura is simply something around someone, if the paladin has all Auras, he can have them all active otherwise its not an Aura
2. erm yeh, their sages are they not, your assuming their tough just becaue they are apprently powerful doesnt mean their endurance is high. Not that funny, its as close to dsinitegration on a solid being as you can get. No he would not one punch it if its indestructable, no he would not freeze it since Paladin has super high resistences to all elemental powers. Your going into the old and foolish "Jedah" syndrome, assuming just because the AOE of the spell is a city, its far more powerful than Paladins shield, tell me, how many resistances did the city have? Ime not sure, if its indestructable then Odin certainly couldnt break it using strength alone. Odin wouldnt one shot Tyrael, Tyrael would likely warp Odin out of reality. Prove master sword is superior than a shield enchanted by heaven, I would wager Tyrael and arch angels as well as heaven itself is more pure than anything in Zelda.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
So is the Master Sword and Light Arrows. And they can't kill a Triforceless Ganon.
So if the Master Sword and Light Arrows can't kill Ganon, does that mean that a Paladin (from a different setting and different way of magic) can't kill or affect him? Of course it doesn't, what fallacy.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Which compared to converting the population to souls is nothing. A soul attack can go past physical defenses.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Because Link has the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage.
Stop being so narrow-minded. Read my above argument again.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Okay. Prove she is Master Chief level in speed then. Or are you assuming? Of course they are not normal humans, they are superhuman in all or most areas
I said this once and I will say it again. If a trained necromancer can dance around a demonic cat and dodge all the blows it tosses then an Amazon can run a kilometer in a very short amount of time because they were raised to be ridiculously fast.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
but Ganon goes beyond superhuman, Ganon is a God.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Holy strength, but not pure, bashing strength, a Paladin can harm an undead more easily of course, but not a monster or demon.
Whenever he needs strength, he prays, he gets it.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Never as agile? Sure, but I am talking about DEXTERITY, which in D2 terms is basically chance to hit.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
That is not a good simile, ninjas are trained warriors and fighters, WWF wrestlers are just trained to put on a show, in this case, it is a larger trained warrior vs. a smaller one.
Even if they were both trained, a Paladin would still triumph over a Barbarian, both game wise and lore-wise. (If you don't believe me, go check the D2 Ladder, a lot of the top players in PvP are Paladins.) First of all thanks to their praying their strength is increased to the point where it matches the Barbarian's muscles, and also their faith and piousness and auras grant them more protection from physical attacks.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Can you refresh my memory on what exactly that is?
originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Show me a Pally using all his auras at once.
Are you saying that the Paladin should change his personality/aims/goals at the flick of a light switch and go from one aura to the other when his faith and zeal is supposed to be rock solid?
Originally posted by MadMelAh...the absence of proof isn't proof of absence argument...
nothing in daiblo can disintegrate, because its not in any of the animations...just because the game cannot handle the awesome graphics that would be required for diablo to redlightninghose something to ashes doesnt mean he cant 😬
So we assume they can, when they never have been shown they can?
Originally posted by Diamond Kisses1. So they have special armor on. I can find a vid of a Barb shooting fireballs and turning into a Werewolf.
[b]- I can show you a paladin using three auras at once. In fact, I can show you a necromancer that uses two auras at once 😛- Since when does it mean that just because a sage is the most powerful beings there is, they have incredible endurance? Anveena of Warcraft has more power than any sage and she would be finished in a few slashes. Power does not equal endurance. Show me what the sages have survived before and I might reconsider my statement.
- The Paladin withstands direct smashes from Diablo, a physical powerhouse. Call me crazy, but I think Diablo's physical strength > Ganons.
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2. Okay, I cannot show you their endurance, but a Sage's being is beyond human, and as such, they obviously have above human endurance. These Sages weren't just people who are powerful wizards, they were a different state of being.
3. Can't prove it. All he has is size.