Paladin (Diablo) Vs. Ganon (/W touch of balance)

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. I dont need to because an Aura is simply something around someone, if the paladin has all Auras, he can have them all active otherwise its not an Aura

2. erm yeh, their sages are they not, your assuming their tough just becaue they are apprently powerful doesnt mean their endurance is high. Not that funny, its as close to dsinitegration on a solid being as you can get. No he would not one punch it if its indestructable, no he would not freeze it since Paladin has super high resistences to all elemental powers. Your going into the old and foolish "Jedah" syndrome, assuming just because the AOE of the spell is a city, its far more powerful than Paladins shield, tell me, how many resistances did the city have? Ime not sure, if its indestructable then Odin certainly couldnt break it using strength alone. Odin wouldnt one shot Tyrael, Tyrael would likely warp Odin out of reality. Prove master sword is superior than a shield enchanted by heaven, I would wager Tyrael and arch angels as well as heaven itself is more pure than anything in Zelda.

2. No, it isn't, shattering a frozen being<<<disintegrating with a punch, denying that is just funny. The shield has never shown to take any blows as powerful as those, stop committing the No-Limit fallacy. All elemental powers? I guess Pyron couldn't burn him either...once again, No-Limit fallacy, never been shown to tank ice like that. Jedah syndrome? HE could freeze over a whole city, yet can't freeze one being? Lol, my ass. How many resistances did the city have? Well, it's bigger, it was guarded by a Great Spirit, and had an entire race of people, and Ganon froze it all. Odin couldn't break the shield? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Odin can destroy a galaxy, but not some dinky shield? Bullshit, he would crush it with a blast, hell, Odin is too big, I should just have Hulk shatter it with a punch. No-Limit fallacies are funny. Tyrael, with his minor reality warping powers, would beat Odin, who flys FTL speeds from one side of the universe to the other, destroys galaxies and can manipulate matter on high levels? The Master Sword is a blade of pure light, made by the Goddesses themselves.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
[b]Can you prove that Ganon is able to disintegrate people? You have no proof that the sage he disintegrated is endurant at all. Show us a 2nd person that Ganon has disintegrated, because you are basing that physical feat of his on one very loose base, since we know NOTHING about the Sage's endurance. [/B]

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. So they have special armor on. I can find a vid of a Barb shooting fireballs and turning into a Werewolf.

2. Okay, I cannot show you their endurance, but a Sage's being is beyond human, and as such, they obviously have above human endurance. These Sages weren't just people who are powerful wizards, they were a different state of being.

3. Can't prove it. All he has is size.

1. You can have multiple auras. Switching between three auras will allow you to have three open at the same time. When you switch aura, it fades, not disappears instantly. Switching between three auras quickly enough will allow three auras at the same time. Aura Flashing.

2. Anveena of Warcraft is more fragile than most humans, but is one of the most powerful entities in the warcraft universe. Your logic fails, claiming that just because a Sage is above a human, that means they are more endurant. Lousy logic and very loose base of proof.

Originally posted by DarkC
Even the Prime Evils like Baal and Diablo didn't last up to attacks based upon that. Are you under the opinion that Ganon is immune to everything that a Paladin can throw at him?

So if the Master Sword and Light Arrows can't kill Ganon, does that mean that a Paladin (from a different setting and different way of magic) can't kill or affect him? Of course it doesn't, what fallacy.

Paladin's souls are too pure to be affected by something like that.

Oh, and if the Paladin doesn't have them then he can be possessed.

Stop being so narrow-minded. Read my above argument again.

Is this your reasoning? Read mine again, it requires no proof, only common sense.
Despite what some people may think, demanding proof is nowhere near close to a real argument or point.

I said this once and I will say it again. If a trained necromancer can dance around a demonic cat and dodge all the blows it tosses then an Amazon can run a kilometer in a very short amount of time because they were raised to be ridiculously fast.

What are the Prime Evils then, cannon fodder?

Sorry, but in actual lore, the Light can grant the Paladin considerable amounts of strength regardless of what he's attacking. He's an instrument of the religion, which doesn't narrow down their idea of "evil" to just "demons' and "Undead".

Whenever he needs strength, he prays, he gets it.

Dfn: "Dexterity"
Read it. And I'm quite familiar with what Dexterity grants in Diablo II, thanks.

That's all nice and good, but I'm not talking about their actual skill level, just their relative size.

Even if they were both trained, a Paladin would still triumph over a Barbarian, both game wise and lore-wise. (If you don't believe me, go check the D2 Ladder, a lot of the top players in PvP are Paladins.) First of all thanks to their praying their strength is increased to the point where it matches the Barbarian's muscles, and also their faith and piousness and auras grant them more protection from physical attacks.

Lore wise it's essentially just a purge, or an exorcism.

In a "real life" situation (not in-game, I mean) think about what you're saying. Auras are there permanently, they're inherent to the nature and presence of a Paladin. That's why they're "auras" and not "blessings", like the Paladin class in World of Warcraft.

Are you saying that the Paladin should change his personality/aims/goals at the flick of a light switch and go from one aura to the other when his faith and zeal is supposed to be rock solid?

Well, yeah...as superior weapons and power made to kill Ganon, couldn't even kill a Ganon who didn't have the Triforce of Power.

2. It doesn't matter how "pure" your soul is, it still affects you. Hell, Many Paladins became corrupt if you remember, I am of course speaking of the ones influenced by Mephisto. Were their souls pure?

3. Has a Paladin ever resisted possession from a being as powerful in mind, body, and soul as Ganon?

4. So because a Necro could dodge the blows of a demon cat, she can run kilos? Dodging a cat is REACTION TIME, not run speed.

5. No, powerful demon lords, and I will use that common sense you like, common sense tells me that in terms of storyline, one Pally did not beat any of them alone.

6. Okay, more of the common sense, Barbs are played out to be physically dominating compared to the other classes, with great strength in the whole body, which also lets him make great mini-Hulk leaps. The Barb is the only class to be able to dual wield two Claymores. The Barb also has powerful lungs, allowing it to let out fiercesome battle crys, which even have magic effects. In terms of physically, the Barb is stronger.

7. The entire argument was that a good Barb in-game needs dexterity, so obviously I was referring to the stat in the game.

8. Actually, in-game, it depends on skill, a Pally retains certain advantages, but if you play it smart, you can and will win.

Lore I can't comment on.

9. ...And can you remind me of how that will protect him from being frozen?

10. So a Pally can have all auras on at all times. Has that even happened in lore?

Yeah, because saying all auras are constantly on and permanent is stupid, and his one aura which drains his mana, would be constantly draining his mana.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
[b]1. You can have multiple auras. Switching between three auras will allow you to have three open at the same time. When you switch aura, it fades, not disappears instantly. Switching between three auras quickly enough will allow three auras at the same time. Aura Flashing.

2. Anveena of Warcraft is more fragile than most humans, but is one of the most powerful entities in the warcraft universe. Your logic fails, claiming that just because a Sage is above a human, that means they are more endurant. Lousy logic and very loose base of proof. [/B]

2. I said that even if they were placed at mere human durability, they were still disintegrated. And I think it is lousy logic that just because a shield is invulnerable in one game, means that it will be to all areas of fiction, Odin can't bust it...lol, what a crock of shit.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Yet you can't show me it ever happening.

2. No, it isn't, shattering a frozen being<<<disintegrating with a punch, denying that is just funny. The shield has never shown to take any blows as powerful as those, stop committing the No-Limit fallacy. All elemental powers? I guess Pyron couldn't burn him either...once again, No-Limit fallacy, never been shown to tank ice like that. Jedah syndrome? HE could freeze over a whole city, yet can't freeze one being? Lol, my ass. How many resistances did the city have? Well, it's bigger, it was guarded by a Great Spirit, and had an entire race of people, and Ganon froze it all. Odin couldn't break the shield? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Odin can destroy a galaxy, but not some dinky shield? Bullshit, he would crush it with a blast, hell, Odin is too big, I should just have Hulk shatter it with a punch. No-Limit fallacies are funny. Tyrael, with his minor reality warping powers, would beat Odin, who flys FTL speeds from one side of the universe to the other, destroys galaxies and can manipulate matter on high levels? The Master Sword is a blade of pure light, made by the Goddesses themselves.

1. "sigh" go and look up what an Aura is first, then come back to me

2. It doesnt need to if its indestructable, theres not a "no limit fallacy" going on, the shield is indestructable fact, my fact>>your assumptions on people trying to break it. I didnt say Paladin was immune did I to all elemental powers?. Can you show me this city guarded by a being who can reflect freezing powers, and you think the fact the city was bigger meaning the spell would be more powerful on a single target? not played World of warcraft much then? AOE spells do the same damage to a single target it does to several, its called AOE, its not a basing of power, just area, since theres only one paladin, the size of the city is moot. Well yeh the last time i looked Galaxies are not indestructable, galaxies are simply celestial bodies, the Sun a giant lump of Hydragon elements, planets are lumps of rock.....its not that impressive, once again, your trying to take the area range of the spell and make it into power, its not true, its Jedah syndrome. Minor reality warping, he has Angelis council powers, they can remove things from excistence, Odin could be among them, either way, Odin would never "defeat" Tyrael, its unlikey he could even hit him

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. It doesn't matter how "pure" your soul is, it still affects you. Hell, Many Paladins became corrupt if you remember, I am of course speaking of the ones influenced by Mephisto. Were their souls pure?

lol comparing any corruption from Zelda to Mephisto lawlz ftw

and to answer :

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Okay. I'll drop this, let's just say that the Sage has only human endurance. He, with a punch, disintegrated him(prolly by magically enhancing it). Now, show me a Pally, or anything in Diablo, doing it? Can't, can you?

How about Inarius who can bust Sanctuary (the planet) 1000 times over with ease?

Who cares about Odin? Ganon does not even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Odin in any discussion other than how hard Odin would destroy him 😛

Now drop the whole Odin talk. Ganon will not be punching trough armor nor shield, because the shield is beyond anything Ganon has broke in endurance. This of several reasons. The first being that he block the punch of Satan with it. The second is that it is enforced with pure light and we all know that Ganon has a touch of vulnerability towards light which not only makes his attack less effective than it already should be, but also grants the shield even a chance to be dangers, considering Smite.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No, but he will be able to take many shots. People act like two or three attacks will kill Ganon, when evidence shows otherwise.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. It doesn't matter how "pure" your soul is, it still affects you. Hell, Many Paladins became corrupt if you remember, I am of course speaking of the ones influenced by Mephisto. Were their souls pure?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Has a Paladin ever resisted possession from a being as powerful in mind, body, and soul as Ganon?

If that can happen, then yes, a Paladin can resist the pull of Ganon's power.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
4. So because a Necro could dodge the blows of a demon cat, she can run kilos? Dodging a cat is REACTION TIME, not run speed.

Amazons are built and trained to have much more physical control over their own body than a necromancer ever will.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
5. No, powerful demon lords, and I will use that common sense you like, common sense tells me that in terms of storyline, one Pally did not beat any of them alone.

Again, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but you seem terribly misinformed in some areas.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
6. Okay, more of the common sense, Barbs are played out to be physically dominating compared to the other classes, with great strength in the whole body, which also lets him make great mini-Hulk leaps. The Barb is the only class to be able to dual wield two Claymores. The Barb also has powerful lungs, allowing it to let out fiercesome battle crys, which even have magic effects. In terms of physically, the Barb is stronger.

You're correct in the fact that the Barbarian is lore-wise and game-wise meant to be the most physically strongest of the characters, but you're missing out on one detail.

They're supposed to be strong without the aid of magic. And if the Paladin did not have the use of his magic, and was reduced to a normal man in armor, then yes the Barbarian would obvious triumph in raw muscular strength.

No, his war shouts do not have magical effects at all. In game mechanics, their effects are simply there to simulate the mental and physical effect of his battlecries, much the same way that the warrior class in WoW does. (Intimidating shout - fears enemies away, battle shout - increased attack power, Piercing Howl - decreased enemy movement speed, etc)

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
9. ...And can you remind me of how that will protect him from being frozen?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
10. So a Pally can have all auras on at all times. Has that even happened in lore?

Yeah, because saying all auras are constantly on and permanent is stupid, and his one aura which drains his mana, would be constantly draining his mana.

You're defying the general idea of an aura just by saying that one aura cannot take place if another aura is there. And besides, many of the "auras" listed as Paladin skills (such as Holy Freeze) are less "auras" and more "spells".

Dfn: "Aura"

Originally posted by DarkC
I don't recall saying that Ganon would be defeated that easily, but there's absolutely no denying that he will have his hands more than full trying to protect himself from the full extent of the Paladin's power.

Wrong. You're thinking of the Council members such as Bartuc, who were Vizjerei magus and commanders, and none of them as I recall were Paladins.

No, but a simple battle hardened mercenary resisted corruption from Diablo and mentally faced him down himself.

If that can happen, then yes, a Paladin can resist the pull of Ganon's power.

Wrong again, they're based on both physical and mental speed. I'm not sure where you're pulling the "solely reaction time" off of. Reaction time and mental reflexes are completely worthless if the body cannot follow through.

Amazons are built and trained to have much more physical control over their own body than a necromancer ever will.

In terms of storyline, one person (the chosen protagonist from the first Diablo) took Diablo on and won. That person became the Wanderer. Are you saying that a Paladin cannot?

Again, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but you seem terribly misinformed in some areas.

Again , all that is just noise.

You're correct in the fact that the Barbarian is lore-wise and game-wise meant to be the most physically strongest of the characters, but you're missing out on one detail.

They're supposed to be strong without the aid of magic. And if the Paladin did not have the use of his magic, and was reduced to a normal man in armor, then yes the Barbarian would obvious triumph in raw muscular strength.

No, his war shouts do not have magical effects at all. In game mechanics, their effects are simply there to simulate the mental and physical effect of his battlecries, much the same way that the warrior class in WoW does. (Intimidating shout - fears enemies away, battle shout - increased attack power, Piercing Howl - decreased enemy movement speed, etc)

Gee, I dunno, it dispels the freeze?

No, as far as I can tell there's been no Paladins in the novels period.

You're defying the general idea of an aura just by saying that one aura cannot take place if another aura is there. And besides, many of the "auras" listed as Paladin skills (such as Holy Freeze) are less "auras" and more "spells".

Dfn: "Aura"

2. Really? I misread the game info then...meh.

Has a Pally ever resisted a soul attack like that? You cannot assume a pure heart will help him, and it affected Link, who is both a pure heart and tool of the Gods, although the Triforce of Courage kept his soul safe.

3. Wait, are you talking about the Wanderer in the first game?

I can't remember much from the first game, but didn't he solo Diablo?

What makes you think one Pally>him?

4. Because one can have the reaction time to dodge something, but not be able to run equally as fast. Superman for example has incredible reaction time, but is not as fast moving(tops at lightspeed running, beyond when flying), whereas Silver Surfer is the opposite, can fly at billions or trillions of times lightspeed, but cannot react anywhere near as fast. There IS a difference between being able to react and run somewhere quickly, can a sprinter dodge punches from a UFC fighter as quickly as another UFC fighter? The answer is no.

True, but you cannot prove she can run kilos in seconds.

5. The Wanderer is fairly unknown in terms of abilities of what he can do. He could very well be more powerful than a single Pally(and honestly, probably is).

6. Of course, the Barb is physically stronger without magic, a Pally needs it to be strong, and really, I have never met a Pally do more physical damage than a good Barb when the two were around the same level.

Details, point is they do.

7. ...And exorcism can dispel ice? Or when you said that, did you mean it dispells enchantments? This is nothing fancy, just ice, ice that had to be melted with blue fire, which can't be found on our planet.

8. That's the IRL definition, which doesn't mean it is the same in fiction.

5. The Wanderer is the devil 😂 He IS more powerful than the paladin 😛

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
[b]5. The Wanderer is the devil 😂 He IS more powerful than the paladin 😛 [/B]

The wanderer that fought Tyrael, burnt down the Tavern and summoned demons from the very Hell that he dominate you mean? Yeah, he is a weakling 🙄

lawlz Diablo would solo Zeldaverse and the wanderer would likely destroy most of it as well

Originally posted by Burning thought
lawlz Diablo would solo Zeldaverse and the wanderer would likely destroy most of it as well

I'm just talking about in-game, I know virtually nothing about lore though.

The guy blocked Tyrael's sword with his hands 😛

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
[b]The guy blocked Tyrael's sword with his hands 😛 [/B]

I am not so well-facted with that stuff. I think it is called "Armageddon" and is one of the most powerful weapons there is. I was going to say Azurewrath, but that was not Tyrael's 😛

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Oh, he won't be able to beat the Pally as easily as he SHOULD Link, don't get me wrong, but according to Burning Thought, Ganon is tooled. Then again, I guess I shouldn't be surprised by anything he says...

Paladin > Link.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Has a Pally ever resisted a soul attack like that? You cannot assume a pure heart will help him, and it affected Link, who is both a pure heart and tool of the Gods, although the Triforce of Courage kept his soul safe.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Wait, are you talking about the Wanderer in the first game?
I can't remember much from the first game, but didn't he solo Diablo?
What makes you think one Pally>him?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
4. Because one can have the reaction time to dodge something, but not be able to run equally as fast. Superman for example has incredible reaction time, but is not as fast moving(tops at lightspeed running, beyond when flying), whereas Silver Surfer is the opposite, can fly at billions or trillions of times lightspeed, but cannot react anywhere near as fast.There IS a difference between being able to react and run somewhere quickly, can a sprinter dodge punches from a UFC fighter as quickly as another UFC fighter? The answer is no

UFC fighters are trained for speedy reflexes, sprinters are trained for speedy movement. Amazon is trained and raised to be both, not one or the other.

Anyways, here's a point; if someone has the reflexes to dodge bullets with ease will they be able to outmatch a sprinter? Yes they can, because they have much more control over their body and will be able to put more force and faster movement speed into their legs.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
True, but you cannot prove she can run kilos in seconds.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
6. Of course, the Barb is physically stronger without magic, a Pally needs it to be strong, and really, I have never met a Pally do more physical damage than a good Barb when the two were around the same level.

Details, point is they do.

Comparing that to now, where you're saying that they're equal in overall strength, I'm not even sure why you're bringing it up anymore, or what you're trying to argue about here.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
7. ...And exorcism can dispel ice? Or when you said that, did you mean it dispells enchantments? This is nothing fancy, just ice, ice that had to be melted with blue fire, which can't be found on our planet.

And anyways, a Paladin can have divine intervention save him and purge him of all impurities; remember, it's Heaven who's cleansing him here.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
8. That's the IRL definition, which doesn't mean it is the same in fiction.

Originally posted by Diamond Kisses
[b]I am not so well-facted with that stuff. I think it is called "Armageddon" and is one of the most powerful weapons there is. I was going to say Azurewrath, but that was not Tyrael's 😛 [/B]

Azurewrath was the sword Tyrael forged for Izual, was it not? 🙂