Darth vader vs naga sadow

Originally posted by Gideon
Janus went from thinking that Sidious was among the weakest Sith Lords to admitting that he is one of the most powerful. Emphasis mine.

And the predictable questioning of the opponent's reading comprehension. IKC, new material, please. You'd think that spending over a year in internet exile would give you plenty of time to think of something new for those few occasions you crawl out of your hidey-hole.

Wow, you're still stupid.

From the material you posted earlier, someone asked Janus,

Janus, do you think Palpatine is the most powerful Sith ever?

Then you claimed,

Ladies and gentlemen, we have what is considered to be a direct victory. I would like to thank Janus for playing and putting up an excellent show, after all these years. Now, we know why they have stopped arguing for the Ancient Sith at EoD. It's because they have seen the light, acknowledged the light, and would rather keep themselves locked in the dark.

Light always finds a way, folks, it casts a strong glare.

As if what he said means he agrees that Palpatine was the strongest Sith, or that he thinks he's more powerful than the Ancient Sith.

It doesn't, and he doesn't, as I pointed out to you using rudimentary reading comprehension. Your masturbatory celebration at the end of that post was unwarranted and thankfully short-lived.

Originally posted by IKC
[B]You were? Really? So whenever Janus makes a post you wonder when I'm going to do the same even though it's been about six months since I've looked at this pit?

Wow you're stupid.

Perhaps you've forgotten to read since last we've been around. I mean, as far as I can tell you wouldn't have to read too much, given that you can repeat the same drivel ad nauseum and pass it off as debate without an Antediluvian around.

Originally posted by IKC
Wow, you're still stupid.

Giving me excerpts from the 'father-son' speeches in your youth doesn't exactly apply here, IKC.

From the material you posted earlier, someone asked Janus,

[QUOTE]Janus, do you think Palpatine is the most powerful Sith ever?

Then you claimed,

Ladies and gentlemen, we have what is considered to be a direct victory. I would like to thank Janus for playing and putting up an excellent show, after all these years. Now, we know why they have stopped arguing for the Ancient Sith at EoD. It's because they have seen the light, acknowledged the light, and would rather keep themselves locked in the dark.

Light always finds a way, folks, it casts a strong glare.

This almost looks like deduction.

As if what he said means he agrees that Palpatine was the strongest Sith, or that he thinks he's more powerful than the Ancient Sith.

Don't assume, IKC. When you do, you tend to make an ass out of you and me (in this case, it's just you). Janus said that, in a manner of speaking, Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. The point was that he once thought that Palpatine was shit on every other Sith Lord's boots, and now he admits that, even in Force power, Palpatine is among the best.

It doesn't, and he doesn't, as I pointed out to you using rudimentary reading comprehension. Your masturbatory celebration at the end of that post was unwarranted and thankfully short-lived.

Really, lecturing someone on reading comprehension (predictable) when your entire insult-laden diatribe is based off of the assumption that I considered that statement to be Janus's admission that 'Sidious > Ancient Sith', really isn't necessary. Really, IKC, perhaps you should return to EoD where such bullshit is common practice. But here, now? Hardly.

Raise your game or get off the court.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Says the little boy who's come back to defend his girlfriend..

I could say the same about you but it would be too obvious seeing as how you ran from this forum like a little girl..

HAHAHAHAHA this coming from a fool who came onto this forum after his "exile" to call people stupid..

Originally posted by IKC
Wow you're stupid.

Originally posted by IKC
Wow, you're still stupid.

Originally posted by IKC

Don't assume, IKC. When you do, you tend to make an ass out of you and me (in this case, it's just you). Janus said that, in a manner of speaking, Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. The point was that he once thought that Palpatine was shit on every other Sith Lord's boots, and now he admits that, even in Force power, Palpatine is among the best.

Except that no Antediluvian ever denied that Palpatine held the most political power or that he was personally very powerful (by DE specifically).

What you wrote, and I'm sure this escaped you due to your general reading skills, meant that you claimed victory and ergo you must think Janus was admitting defeat.

I don't belittle your reading skills for no reason, you're clearly playing hard and fast with the language (and elsewhere, the facts). If you don't want people to take you wrong then perhaps you should read and write in a manner that actually follows the language correctly.

Oh, tdtd - Learn to format. Nice job putting that enormous image to the right of all your text.

Omgz no, I didn't format the image properly. You PWNED me IKC. Next, I expect you to correct my grammar or punctuation. Ah, the last resort to a lost cause.

Originally posted by IKC
Except that no Antediluvian ever denied that Palpatine held the most political power or that he was personally very powerful (by DE specifically).

We've gone from a distinct lack of witty banter to outright lies in such a short time. Your lot went from claiming "Palpatine was the benefactor of circumstances" and that the older and ancient Sith Lords would be able to annihilate him to admitting that he is among the most powerful ever.

What you wrote, and I'm sure this escaped you due to your general reading skills, meant that you claimed victory and ergo you must think Janus was admitting defeat.

I claimed victory because Janus has retracted his earlier opinions and agreeing that Palpatine is among the most powerful Sith in terms of acquired Force power and knowledge, and is the most powerful Sith Lord ever in terms of political acumen, thus making him the greatest. Are you used to people having to translate everything for you, IKC?

I don't belittle your reading skills for no reason, you're clearly playing hard and fast with the language (and elsewhere, the facts). If you don't want people to take you wrong then perhaps you should read and write in a manner that actually follows the language correctly.

Or, perhaps, you could avoid making unnecessary assumptions that make you look like an utter ass. You assumed that I was under the impression that Janus conceded that Palpatine was the strongest Sith Lord ever; I never did. Janus went from being on a massive anti-Sidious campaign to admitting that the Emperor was the politically strongest Sith Lord and among the best with the Force and acquired knowledge. This contradicts the vast majority of his beliefs during his tenure here.

You might want to add a funny picture in this, IKC. Your lackluster wit and sad attempts to reason (pitiful skills that have clearly atrophied further in your exile) aren't exactly bringing out the awe in your abilities.

By the powers invested in me by the great black Jesus, I demand that we all break for lunch, and this court session will resume on Sunday!

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
By the powers invested in me by the great black Jesus, I demand that we all break for lunch, and this court session will resume on Sunday!

I submit.

I can't believe this passage needs to be clarified. That's desperation right there.

Very interesting, direct question.

I suppose he is, in a manner of speaking. He certainly is the most influential Sith of his time, controlling more space and temporal power than any Sith before him, and he has the most powerful cult of personality of any Sith. He has the honor of being the only Sith the people of the galaxy obeyed willingly.

Points used by myself:

1. "In a manner of speaking", which is a "from a certain point of view" disclaimer in that this is obviously not a blanket or absolute statement. Even Luke Skywalker was able to recognize this as a truth which depends on a certain amount of relativism.

2. Most influential sith of his time, which is understandable- he overcame the Jedi through massive treachery and he was one of two Sith during his lifetime. He had a habit of dominating and/or killing off other Sith.

3. Controlling more space and temporal power is an obvious nod to his role as Galactic Emperor. This says absolutely nothing about his dueling capabilities, or mastery of the Force. Being a leader and administrator is not itself proof of capability.

4. Most powerful cult of personality is iffy, but basically he is the most prominent Sith galaxy-wide, and held quite a lot of fans and supporters, both Force users and non. This statement is the weakest in having any real support.

5. The honor of being the only sith to have people obey him willingly is a nod to his manipulation and facade as a normal person. The entire galaxy didn't know he was even a Sith. Again, no bearing on his personal power.

Personal power, he was top-tier in the PT era.

Top-tier of the PT era is a short list, and doesn't stack him up against anyone outside of the PT-era, nor does it definitively place him anywhere but in the top tier of that respective era. It's not an absolute.

As of DE, apparently he had been upgraded (Although to be fair, even Luke as of DE displays the ability to crush an AT-AT without any apparent effort. Such an act would make Yoda look inferior) and became one of the most powerful Sith in the Force, with knowledge and time to implement that knowledge.

DE Sidious is pretty much over the top. I haven't argued against DE Sidious in a long time, and I routinely choose him over quite a bit of other duelists. He is likely one of the most powerful Sith in the Force, and had far more time and sources to use than his younger PT self, which is apparent. But again, even this isn't definitive. Only Sith and fanboys deal in absolutes.

So yeah, great job at playing semantics, Escape.

Who wins?
The Man With The Golden Gun

Originally posted by Janus Marius
I can't believe this passage needs to be clarified. That's desperation right there.

Points used by myself:

1. "In a manner of speaking", which is a "from a certain point of view" disclaimer in that this is obviously not a blanket or absolute statement. Even Luke Skywalker was able to recognize this as a truth which depends on a certain amount of relativism.

2. Most influential sith of his time, which is understandable- he overcame the Jedi through massive treachery and he was one of two Sith during his lifetime. He had a habit of dominating and/or killing off other Sith.

3. Controlling more space and temporal power is an obvious nod to his role as Galactic Emperor. This says absolutely nothing about his dueling capabilities, or mastery of the Force. Being a leader and administrator is not itself proof of capability.

4. Most powerful cult of personality is iffy, but basically he is the most prominent Sith galaxy-wide, and held quite a lot of fans and supporters, both Force users and non. This statement is the weakest in having any real support.

5. The honor of being the only sith to have people obey him willingly is a nod to his manipulation and facade as a normal person. The entire galaxy didn't know he was even a Sith. Again, no bearing on his personal power.

Top-tier of the PT era is a short list, and doesn't stack him up against anyone outside of the PT-era, nor does it definitively place him anywhere but in the top tier of that respective era. It's not an absolute.

DE Sidious is pretty much over the top. I haven't argued against DE Sidious in a long time, and I routinely choose him over quite a bit of other duelists. He is likely one of the most powerful Sith in the Force, and had far more time and sources to use than his younger PT self, which is apparent. But again, even this isn't definitive. Only Sith and fanboys deal in absolutes.

So yeah, great job at playing semantics, Escape.

So, essentially, you've admitted that you were completely wrong about him and (in your own words) "haven't argued against DE Sidious in a long time, and I routinely choose him over quite a bit of other duelists." Being a narcissist, I understand that it is hard to put aside one's ego and concede or apologize, and I especially understand how difficult that must be for you, an adult who has been decisively proven wrong by someone who was a little over 15 at the time. So, I guess it's as close as we'll get to: "Escape, you were right, I was completely wrong about Sidious's level of power, though I can't apologize for being an enormously obtuse douchebag and fighting it for all these years. But I want you to know, you've changed my outlook on things."

And look, you've even taken the liberty of putting a funny picture. Beating a dying horse? I have an eye for art; the horse represents you and your argument, and I'm the bat? How very fitting.

Escape, you're wasting your time.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, you're wasting your time.

I disagree.

Perhaps if I were attempting to reason with Janus or debate with him about his own heightened fanboyism, but I'm doing neither. I have made it impossibly clear that I have been (and still am) willing to have a discussion with him, so that we might get a better understanding of the mentalities we both possess. But he has made it explicitly clear that he doesn't want to, and would rather ***** and moan on various threads that "Escape is a Sidious fanboy!! Escape, why are you a Sidious fanboy?!" and henceforth ad infinitum. To every question he has posed to myself and Lightsnake, we have been courteous and have provided answers. When questions are posed to him, be it via private message or on threads, Janus elects not to respond. Why? I suspect that his hesitation derives from the fact that he cannot provide an explanation that is substantiated or in any way logical. I mean, take a look at the above diatribe; Janus admits that "he has not debated against DE Sidious in a long time" and "chooses him over other duelists". Is that not tantamount to a declaration of defeat? That he was utterly wrong, hence his sudden change of heart? But he can't so much as say the words "I was wrong" or concede the point and becomes unquestionably hostile when the subject stems to DE Sidious or the Ancient Sith. Further facts in favor of this line of thought are that, even at EoD, the Ancient Sith are not argued in favor of. It seems that the denizens of the forums have come to the conclusion that they have no way of proving how "uber!!" those particular Sith are, and resolve merely to not discuss them at all. Consider yourself, Darth Sexy, or Deception (the most ardent of the Ragnos fan brigade). Neither of you even really bother anymore and admit that there's no way you can prove or assert that Ragnos is a Force god. Yet Janus? No. He can't even have a discussion about them with me.

So, I feel that no time is being wasted. The offer is on the table and if Janus wishes to merely act petty in every thread he and I post in, I'm content to do so. After all, he's the one whom I "can't beat in a debate" and the vaunted adult. His obsessive behavior (the multiple signatures, mocking myself and Sidious, the constant direct references to myself at EoD, associating you and I as gay lovers) is exposing him to be an irretrievably immature man who is constantly bested and baited by a person substantially younger than him.

Originally posted by Gideon
I disagree.

Perhaps if I were attempting to reason with Janus or debate with him about his own heightened fanboyism, but I'm doing neither. I have made it impossibly clear that I have been (and still am) willing to have a discussion with him, so that we might get a better understanding of the mentalities we both possess. But he has made it explicitly clear that he doesn't want to, and would rather ***** and moan on various threads that "Escape is a Sidious fanboy!! Escape, why are you a Sidious fanboy?!" and henceforth ad infinitum. To every question he has posed to myself and Lightsnake, we have been courteous and have provided answers. When questions are posed to him, be it via private message or on threads, Janus elects not to respond. Why? I suspect that his hesitation derives from the fact that he cannot provide an explanation that is substantiated or in any way logical. I mean, take a look at the above diatribe; Janus admits that "he has not debated against DE Sidious in a long time" and "chooses him over other duelists". Is that not tantamount to a declaration of defeat? That he was utterly wrong, hence his sudden change of heart? But he can't so much as say the words "I was wrong" or concede the point and becomes unquestionably hostile when the subject stems to DE Sidious or the Ancient Sith. Further facts in favor of this line of thought are that, even at EoD, the Ancient Sith are not argued in favor of. It seems that the denizens of the forums have come to the conclusion that they have no way of proving how "uber!!" those particular Sith are, and resolve merely to not discuss them at all. Consider yourself, Darth Sexy, or Deception (the most ardent of the Ragnos fan brigade). Neither of you even really bother anymore and admit that there's no way you can prove or assert that Ragnos is a Force god. Yet Janus? No. He can't even have a discussion about them with me.

So, I feel that no time is being wasted. The offer is on the table and if Janus wishes to merely act petty in every thread he and I post in, I'm content to do so. After all, he's the one whom I "can't beat in a debate" and the vaunted adult. His obsessive behavior (the multiple signatures, mocking myself and Sidious, the constant direct references to myself at EoD, associating you and I as gay lovers) is exposing him to be an irretrievably immature man who is constantly bested and baited by a person substantially younger than him.

You are absolutely right but I feel you and lightsnake are fighting a losing battle against an egocentric dipshit with no concept of reality. It's a losing battle because of the way you approach it. You might think it's always right to be civil and courteous but I disagree. In mitigating circumstances (this is one of those), I think it is better to fight fire with fire. Janus is pushing, so you should push back. Sure he looks like a fool everytime he types but you can look intelligent AND be uncivil at the same time.

So, essentially, you've admitted that you were completely wrong about him and (in your own words) "haven't argued against DE Sidious in a long time, and I routinely choose him over quite a bit of other duelists." Being a narcissist, I understand that it is hard to put aside one's ego and concede or apologize, and I especially understand how difficult that must be for you, an adult who has been decisively proven wrong by someone who was a little over 15 at the time. So, I guess it's as close as we'll get to: "Escape, you were right, I was completely wrong about Sidious's level of power, though I can't apologize for being an enormously obtuse douchebag and fighting it for all these years. But I want you to know, you've changed my outlook on things."

When was the last time I said DE Sidious loses a fight when it was unreasonable? Over a year? Two years?

When have I argued against yours or another's stilted and biased view of PT Sidious? Quite often? At least once a week?

But you've never learned to differentiate between DE Sidious and PT Sidious, always molding them together when it suits you and never mentally separating them, because you know that PT Sidious is a complete wuss compared to his later self.

Of course, I'm glad you can read well enough to see that much. Keep on plugging away, Escape. Maybe someday you'll look back at all this and see just how dense you've been. But hey- at least you have what? Two supporters? Maybe three?

I could see if I was out to prove DE Sidious was inferior to everyone and couldn't beat Coleman Trebor, but that hasn't been the case. DE Sidious, as I have said before, is powerful. I reread DE and I conceded that much a long time ago. You need to accept this and move on. If me admitting that is a "victory" to you, you need to seriously reevaluate your reason for posting here. I came to a conclusion which was reasonable by reviewing the source materials and completely ignoring anything you said is not a "victory" for you, and it certainly does jack-all for your current PT Sidious debates.

But then again, I could be wasting my time with you because whenever the debate does not turn in your favor you attack me, my past arguments, my friends, my forum, my age, my profession, and try and play off like you're some sort of mature debating god who's had inexhaustible patience with me being some sort of bashing idiot. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just because you feel you're civil and logical doesn't make it so. I've never had a serious problem with you outside of debate until you took it to the next level some time ago. You cast the first stone, and you went on to bring your bashing, biased viewpoints into EoD and its subsequent remake, and attacked Illustrious when he called you out. You then pissed and moaned, backstabbed me to everyone else via PM, and took your ball and left.

But amazingly, for someone who was 'wronged" there and disinterested in our viewpoints, arguments, and very being, you sure are knowledgable about what goes on in there, aren't you? I would think that if you didn't respect us and care for what we thought and were really so "above" us and "reasonable" that you wouldn't be tempted to haul off and bash me and my friends and my forum, huh? If I am insufferable and impossible to deal with, why do you continue to reply? Why do you know every single pindrop that happens at EoD?

Here's every single debate with you:

You: Skewed viewpoint on a duel or versus match.

Me: Reasonable rebuttal, which usually consists of Occam's Razor, sources, and ruling out the impossible.

You: More skewed viewpoint backed by a vicious denial of the opposite viewpoint. Straw-manning.

Me: More rebuttal, another wearisome post detailing why you're wrong.

You: Nitpicking reply which seeks to belittle decent arguments and myself while not offering up any in-depth arguments yourself.

....

Me: Tired of your crap again. I decide the argument is concluded because you cannot be reasoned with. You refuse to budge at all.

You: Personal attacks, crowing about "winning" the debate you never even fairly participated in, reinforcement of grand baseless assertions with some cheerleading acts run by DS.

It all goes to hell at this point. If you hadn't been unwilling to debate and compromise or at least agree to disagree, none of this would ever happen. I disagree and debate against people all the time I don't have great issues with: Nai Fohl, LS, Illustrious, Faunus, etc. They don't haul off and try to belittle me in five different threads while acting self-righteous and logically superior simply because they stonewalled my debate.

Perhaps if I were attempting to reason with Janus or debate with him about his own heightened fanboyism, but I'm doing neither.

"Heightened fanboyism"? Where? Can you provide sources for this? Or is this another baseless assertion?

When questions are posed to him, be it via private message or on threads, Janus elects not to respond. Why? I suspect that his hesitation derives from the fact that he cannot provide an explanation that is substantiated or in any way logical.

No, actually I last told you via PM this:

We're done here. Don't PM me again unless you come to your senses.

Since then I haven't talked debate with you in a PM. That was November of '06, btw. I simply won't waste my time debating with you in a PM when I can have an open forum with third party feedback. You don't like me and don't trust my views on anything, so why would I expect to convince you of anything in a debate? You might listen to a third party, which is the only reason I address your open posts. In reality, I'm debating right over your head and at the audience, convincing them with my points, because I know you can't concede defeat. I've started to just use you as a mouthpiece to show the opposite side so I can make more complete arguments. Yoda versus Sidious was pretty much the icing on the cake. Sadow versus Vader is more of the same. When I ask you for rationally drawn conclusions and sources, you misdirect. At that point I know the point is conceded, even if you can't admit it yourself.

Is that not tantamount to a declaration of defeat? That he was utterly wrong, hence his sudden change of heart? But he can't so much as say the words "I was wrong" or concede the point and becomes unquestionably hostile when the subject stems to DE Sidious or the Ancient Sith.

Defeat? I'm sorry, in which thread was I debating against you and DE Sidious? Was it this one? No. Yoda versus PT era Sidious? No. Any thread at all this month? No.

Gee, where'd you get that baseless assertion from?

Further facts in favor of this line of thought are that, even at EoD, the Ancient Sith are not argued in favor of.

Again, you seem to know quite a bit considering you don't visit the forums anymore because of your self-imposed exile. It's amazing how you accuse me of folding and being a coward, but you fled from the forum because your views weren't supported.

And really, do you even have a shred of evidence for this baseless assertion as well? No, wait... it's by its very nature baseless. And an assertion. Nevermind.

So, I feel that no time is being wasted. The offer is on the table and if Janus wishes to merely act petty in every thread he and I post in, I'm content to do so.

Oh yes, because I'm the height of petty. You've always been honest forthright, all-American, 100% objective, fair and balanced, and you even recycle too.

My favorite quote:

Escape81 wrote on Nov 16th, 2006 05:28 PM:
A friend of mine told me that you think I have a "mighty ego", and that you said as much on EoD. What makes you say that?

That totally blows away this gem:

His obsessive behavior (the multiple signatures, mocking myself and Sidious, the constant direct references to myself at EoD, associating you and I as gay lovers) is exposing him to be an irretrievably immature man who is constantly bested and baited by a person substantially younger than him.

It takes a whopping two minutes to whip up a signature, Escape. Don't flatter yourself into thinking I obsess over anything other than sleep and time away from work. I love how you victimize yourself, though. I think you almost believe it, too.

You are absolutely right but I feel you and lightsnake are fighting a losing battle against an egocentric dipshit with no concept of reality.

DS, since when is Escape and LS fighting you?

You might think it's always right to be civil and courteous but I disagree.

When was Escape ever "always civil"? Is this like how he's "100% objective"? Wow, I had no clue you could be an Escape fanboy. That's a new one. I have expect you to run up and give him a shoulder massage.

Sure he looks like a fool everytime he types but you can look intelligent AND be uncivil at the same time.

DS talking about looking intelligent and being uncivil at the same time. I think somewhere God is crying at the ridiculousness of that idea.

EDIT

egocentric dipshit with no concept of reality

^ Really though, that's you spot-on. I couldn't have said it better than myself. We're making progress here, DS.