Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Tell me, what are we debating here?
Final Fantasy VII?
Which is...what? Oh yes...TV and cellphones and PSP.
I'm sorry if you're too stupid to understand that if what the creators say contradicts their work it means jack shit but it's the way it is.
Go ahead, ask anyone if they think what a writer of a comic says is worthwhile when it contradicts the actual comic.
Same applies here.
And I'm sorry if you are to stupid to understand your opinion about FFVII means jack shit compared to statements from the guys who made the ****ing story.
They don't need to prove anything. A statement is enough, because they are the owners of FFVII, and they decide what is, and what isn't, in the story.
If we go by your retarded logic, I can say that S-E is a company that produces games... But AC is a movie, so it's not canon.
And who cares about what ONE writer of a comic said?! Is he the owner of Marvel Comics? He have authority over everyone else in the company, to state something like that?
Because everyone involved in the Compilation of FFVII at S-E, agree that there is nothing stronger than Sephiroth in FFVII. Deal with it.
Simple brainpower.
Simple stubborness. You don't want to admit you are wrong.
Alright then. Hulk > Galactus. You win. Logic loses.
If you prove to me, this guy have the authority over Marvel Comics to decide something like that, then... Yes, Hulk > Galactus.
Everything stated by the creators(about their story) is true. If it don't make sense, you can call it a retcon, plot-hole, or whatever. BUT IS CANON!
Now, stop disagreeing with the creators and making yourself look like a fool.
And I'm sorry if you are to stupid to understand your opinion about FFVII means jack shit compared to statements from the guys who made the ****ing story.
My opinion is fact. Supported by the games. Unlike what the creators say.
They don't need to prove anything. A statement is enough, because they are the owners of FFVII, and they decide what is, and what isn't, in the story.
No they're not. Square owns FFVII. Nomura and Kitase are disposable.
If Square hired Joe Schmo right now and put him in charge of an FFVII game he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it.
If we go by your retarded logic, I can say that S-E is a company that produces games... But AC is a movie, so it's not canon.
Worst. Analogy. Ever.
Advent Children is part of the FFVII Compilationa nd with every other game or book, is part of the FFVII Universe.
I'm referring to whatever happens in thsoe works as canon and worth discussion. Everything outside of it is worthless, ESPECIALLY if it contradicts in-universe events.
And who cares about what ONE writer of a comic said?! Is he the owner of Marvel Comics?
You make it sound like Kitase owns Square-Enix..he's ONE person in the company. Square could toss him out on his ass right now and hire anyone they wanted to make up FFVII canon.
Because everyone involved in the Compilation of FFVII at S-E, agree that there is nothing stronger than Sephiroth in FFVII. Deal with it.
Marvel Comics is c aompany. Square-Enix is a company. The writers who comment on their comics are just like the creators who comment on their games ie. both their opinions are worthless outside of their creations.
If you prove to me, this guy have the authority over Marvel Comics to decide something like that, then... Yes, Hulk > Galactus.
He's a wirter who writes Hulk comics. The FFVII creators are game developers who make a game. Same exact thing with no more authority than one another.
And that's why out-of-universe opinions are bullshit.
You think Hulk > Galactus. Sephiroth > Omega Weiss. Just because soem nitwit said so.
You are the fool, I'm afraid.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
My opinion is fact. Supported by the games. Unlike what the creators say.
😆 😂 🤣
No they're not. Square owns FFVII. Nomura and Kitase are disposable.
If Square hired Joe Schmo right now and put him in charge of an FFVII game he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it.
Nomura and Kitase are part of S-E, genius. And Kitase is the story-writer of the Compilation. The guy who write the story stated a new fact about it, and everyone involved in the Comp agreed with him.
And that makes it a fact.
Worst. Analogy. Ever.Advent Children is part of the FFVII Compilationa nd with every other game or book, is part of the FFVII Universe.
I'm referring to whatever happens in thsoe works as canon and worth discussion. Everything outside of it is worthless, ESPECIALLY if it contradicts in-universe events.
"with every other game and book"? You agree with me then.
You make it sound like Kitase owns Square-Enix..he's ONE person in the company. Square could toss him out on his ass right now and hire anyone they wanted to make up FFVII canon.
Even if they fire him, everything he did(and stated) while working as the story-writer, is still canon.
Marvel Comics is c aompany. Square-Enix is a company. The writers who comment on their comics are just like the creators who comment on their games ie. both their opinions are worthless outside of their creations.
You cannot compare some random writers of Marvel, with the FFVII team of S-E.
Kitase, Nomura, and Nojima created FFVII. They have control over all the universe and characters of FFVII.
A writer of Marvel, have control over a single story, and only that. And he/she didn't create all the characters in it(Galactus for example).
This is why the statements of FFVII's team have more validity than statements of a random writer, that is there only to write a story about characters who don't belong to him/her.
He's a wirter who writes Hulk comics. The FFVII creators are game developers who make a game. Same exact thing with no more authority than one another.
LOL
You always makes me laugh.
He writes Hulk stories then. Did he create Galactus? Because the guys who thinks there is nothing above Sephiroth in FFVII, created everything in FFVII!
Now, you understand the difference between them(one Marvel writer, and FFVII's team)? If you still don't, read slower.
And that's why out-of-universe opinions are bullshit.
Like yours.
You think Hulk > Galactus. Sephiroth > Omega Weiss. Just because soem nitwit said so.
The Hulk writer can be a "nitwit", but not FFVII's team.
You are the fool, I'm afraid.
😆
Coming from the guy who said this:
My opinion is fact. Supported by the games. Unlike what the creators say.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
[B]My opinion is fact. Supported by the games. Unlike what the creators say.
No they're not. Square owns FFVII. Nomura and Kitase are disposable.
If Square hired Joe Schmo right now and put him in charge of an FFVII game he could do whatever the hell he wanted with it.
Advent Children is part of the FFVII Compilationa nd with every other game or book, is part of the FFVII Universe.
I'm referring to whatever happens in thsoe works as canon and worth discussion. Everything outside of it is worthless, ESPECIALLY if it contradicts in-universe events.
Marvel Comics is c aompany. Square-Enix is a company. The writers who comment on their comics are just like the creators who comment on their games ie. both their opinions are worthless outside of their creations.
He's a wirter who writes Hulk comics. The FFVII creators are game developers who make a game. Same exact thing with no more authority than one another.And that's why out-of-universe opinions are bullshit.
You think Hulk > Galactus. Sephiroth > Omega Weiss. Just because soem nitwit said so.
You are the fool, I'm afraid.
So... wheres the quote?
No one thinks Hulk > Galactus.
Sephiroth > Omega Weiss, yes.. wtf is Omega Weiss gonna do against Sephiroths willpower? Or the NL?
Nomura and Kitase are part of S-E, genius. And Kitase is the story-writer of the Compilation. The guy who write the story stated a new fact about it, and everyone involved in the Comp agreed with him.
And PAD writes the story of the Hulk.
And Joe Casy who said that Superman could ahve beaten a universe-creator who vaporized Superman's near-equal in one shot.
Like I said, if your argument wins, logic loses.
You cannot compare some random writers of Marvel, with the FFVII team of S-E.
Kitase, Nomura, and Nojima created FFVII. They have control over all the universe and characters of FFVII.
GASP
Guess what?!
Comic book writers have the exact same thing!
A writer of Marvel, have control over a single story, and only that. And he/she didn't create all the characters in it(Galactus for example).
Each story is the writer's own creation and they can do whatever they want with it. You make it sound like Kitase has more power than c omic book writer simply because he made FFVII. Jack Kirby does not have more power over the New Gods than Starlin simply because he made them.
He writes Hulk stories then. Did he create Galactus? Because the guys who thinks there is nothing above Sephiroth in FFVII, created everything in FFVII!
You seem to have a hard-on for these guys' positions. THey made FFVII....and you seem tot hink this grants them a higher pedestal than it does for any other writer who makes a story. Well, it doesn't.
Now, you understand the difference between them(one Marvel writer, and FFVII's team)? If you still don't, read slower.
-both simple employees of a company
-both disposable
-both creators of stories
-both writers of stories
-both are dead wrong in what they say
They got a lot in common.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
[B]And PAD writes the story of the Hulk.And Joe Casy who said that Superman could ahve beaten a universe-creator who vaporized Superman's near-equal in one shot.
Like I said, if your argument wins, logic loses.
And HOW does logic lose? Even WITHOUT the quote from the creators, if you had any knowledge of the FF7 world, logic would tell you Sephiroth is the strongest, not beacuse of the quote, but because of his powers.
GASP
Guess what?!
Comic book writers have the exact same thing!
Each story is the writer's own creation and they can do whatever they want with it. You make it sound like Kitase has more power than c omic book writer simply because he made FFVII. Jack Kirby does not have more power over the New Gods than Starlin simply because he made them.
-both simple employees of a company
-both disposable
-both creators of stories
-both writers of stories
-both are dead wrong in what they sayThey got a lot in common.
There is no reason for Nomura and Kitase to be wrong, logic says its true, their words make it true.
Sephiroth is even stated the most powerful character, PERIOD.
Umm...No, actually, he's not. Even the quotes provided earlier don't make that claim.
One of them is obviously referencing his willpower. You bolded the "Nothing is stronger, nothing above him" part of the statement, and that on its own would be enough to say nothing was better (Even then, there's the loophole in which something can be equal). However, that's only half of the statement. They said this directly after referring to his powerful will. This would imply that the second half of the statement was in fact referring to the first part of the statement. Meaning that neither of those is talking about physical or magical strength, but about willpower.
The second one was quite obviously in reference to his standing pre-Nibelheim, seeing as they were talking about the BC era of FFVII. On a side note, one of the new UOGs (For CC or the 10th Anniversary...Can't remember which) states that Genesis' combat abilities are on par with SOLDIER Sephiroths and Zack defeats a fully powered Genesis. This basically puts SOLDIER Sephiroth, Genesis, post-Nibelheim Zack, and possibly Angeal on the same power scale.
Those quotes could be taken as "Sephiroth is the strongest"...If we ignore all but a few parts of the statements. But then, you can turn pretty much anything into a quote working for your argument if you ignore significant parts of the quote. Of course, I'm not saying that Pyron is right. In fact, I think it's quite idiotic to think that the creators can't say what's what in their own fictional world. I'm simply saying that those quotes aren't really considering the entire quote. Just a small part of the quote that means something different when the entire thing is taken into consideration.
Oh, and on another note:
1) Sephiroth doesn't have the power of the planet. He has a rather small portion of the Lifestream.
2) Kitase isn't the Compilation's story creator. Nojima is the one who writes it all, and Kitase/Nomura make changes/additions/edits (Kind of like beta readers, I suppose), with Nomura having more authority. There's at least one interview in which Kitase even states that Nomura rejected his ideas sometimes.
Originally posted by VinCon01
Umm...No, actually, he's not. Even the quotes provided earlier don't make that claim.One of them is obviously referencing his willpower. You bolded the "Nothing is stronger, nothing above him" part of the statement, and that on its own would be enough to say nothing was better (Even then, there's the loophole in which something can be equal). However, that's only half of the statement. They said this directly after referring to his powerful will. This would imply that the second half of the statement was in fact referring to the first part of the statement. Meaning that neither of those is talking about physical or magical strength, but about willpower.
This has been already debated on other forums, and your side lost.
There is a period splitting the sentence, if it was reference to the same thing it would be saying "Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful there is nothing above HIS" they are talking clearly about HIM, not HIS willpower, but HIM
The creators are clearly talking about Sephiroths POWER, and how there is nothing above him, and nothing stronger then him
It has been proven that the translation of STRONGER means SUPERIOR
For example there was an interview and kitase said "Yazoo's bullets were failing to hit Cloud, not because Yazoo had bad aim, but because Cloud was too strong"
The second one was quite obviously in reference to his standing pre-Nibelheim, seeing as they were talking about the BC era of FFVII. On a side note, one of the new UOGs (For CC or the 10th Anniversary...Can't remember which) states that Genesis' combat abilities are on par with SOLDIER Sephiroths and Zack defeats a fully powered Genesis. This basically puts SOLDIER Sephiroth, Genesis, post-Nibelheim Zack, and possibly Angeal on the same power scale.
Can you show me that quote? I thought they were SUPPOSEDLY going to make Genesis on par with Sephiroth but they changed that, Zack beat Genesis and then got owned by Sephiroth.
1) Sephiroth doesn't have the power of the planet. He has a rather small portion of the Lifestream.
2) Kitase isn't the Compilation's story creator. Nojima is the one who writes it all, and Kitase/Nomura make changes/additions/edits (Kind of like beta readers, I suppose), with Nomura having more authority. There's at least one interview in which Kitase even states that Nomura rejected his ideas sometimes.
This has been already debated on other forums, and your side lost.
I find that doubtful.
There is a period splitting the sentence, if it was reference to the same thing it would be saying "Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful there is nothing above HIS" they are talking clearly about HIM, not HIS willpower, but HIM
Actually, the period doesn't indicate that much.
Bill Gates is extremely rich. There's nothing wealthier, nothing more extravagant. Not true, but that's irrelevant to the example.
According to your logic, those statements aren't connected simply because of the period. "His existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him" in no way, shape, or form implies that the second part of the statement is unconnected to the first, simply because of a period. In fact, that those two statements are the ONLY comments made regarding the subject implies that they're directly related.
The creators are clearly talking about Sephiroths POWER, and how there is nothing above him, and nothing stronger then him
The creators are clearly talking about Sephiroth's WILL, and how there is nothing with a more powerful WILL.
It has been proven that the translation of STRONGER means SUPERIOR
I would like to see this proof. Because there are a lot of things that "stronger" can mean, and superior isn't one of those definitions. Aside from that, there's still the matter of them referencing his will.
For example there was an interview and kitase said "Yazoo's bullets were failing to hit Cloud, not because Yazoo had bad aim, but because Cloud was too strong"
Links would be nice. Then there's the fact that if it was translatedused that way once, it doesn't mean that's the only translation/use. Simply being the same word doesn't automatically give them the same meaning, especially when context is taken into consideration.
And again, there's the matter of them referencing his will.
It was during an interview about CC, Sephiroth being the strongest in the world still puts him above every character in existance at that time, which doesnt change from CC to AC much.
In the Ultimania Guide, released after that interview, they claim that Genesis' combat abilities are ranked equal to Sephiroth's. Meaning that, as with this entire compilation, the most recent statements override previous ones. It also screws around with the power charts yet again.
Can you show me that quote? I thought they were SUPPOSEDLY going to make Genesis on par with Sephiroth but they changed that, Zack beat Genesis and then got owned by Sephiroth.
"A SOLDIER 1st Class who possesses combat abilities that rank equal to Sephiroth's, and who adheres to his own personal aesthetic. He takes pride in the handsome figure he cuts, his magnificent fighting style and the enthusiastic popularity it garners him, however he does not like mingling directly with people, and only opens himself up to his companions Sephiroth and Angeal."
Personally, I believe the quote is referring to his magic abilities, as he's clearly an inferior swordsman.
How do you know how much % of the lifestream he has? He's been infecting it for years, a gesture of his hand was enough to cover the city, anyway, a small portion of the lifestream was able to deteriorate Meteor, which can still kill about any FF character.
He covered a single city. The timeline in her profile in the Anniversary UOG says that, when stopping Meteor, Aerith used a mere portion of the Lifestream. Heck, you admit to being a aware of the fact that a small portion of the overall Lifestream stopped Meteor. This "small portion" covered pretty much the entire planet. If a small portion covers the entire planet, then Sephiroth covering the skies above a single city isn't a sign that he has a lot of it at his disposal.
Oh, and he was infecting it for two years at the most. As far as we're aware, the Negative Lifestream didn't begin forming until Geostigma, which didn't appear until some time between VII and AC.
Kitase is the Director and Scenario writer along with Nojima, Nomura is the character designer and wrote the original scenario concept along with Sakaguchi.
For FFVII. Not the entire Compilation. Nojima has been doing most of the writing for the Compilation, Kitase and Nomura have been taking on more editorial/co-writer roles, Nomura basically had total control in AC, and based on statements from Tabata and Kitase, Nomura clearly had a lot of control in CC (Kitase even admits that several of his ideas were rejected by Nomura, despite the fact that Nomura is only labeled as a Character Designer in CC).
Wow....
Looks like someone has forgotten what the rules of Canon material is in a debate...
Sorry PK, but it's the truth, if the creators deem that something is official, then that is so, reguardless of everything else, the Creators are THE authority, because they are the ones who created the material used for the games (And subsequently the material we use for these debates).
I'm sorry this doesn't fulfill your vision of "Perfect Debating" but it is the way it is because the creators have the authority to change whatever suits them in their creation, for example, he could have said that Sephiroth is a gigantic mushroom, and you know what? it would be canon fact, simply because it's theirs.
We need no further confirmation than the word of the creators when it comes to what is/isn't official, because there is no higher authority.
Originally posted by VinCon01
Actually, the period doesn't indicate that much.Bill Gates is extremely rich. There's nothing wealthier, nothing more extravagant. Not true, but that's irrelevant to the example.
According to your logic, those statements aren't connected simply because of the period. "His existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him" in no way, shape, or form implies that the second part of the statement is unconnected to the first, simply because of a period. In fact, that those two statements are the ONLY comments made regarding the subject implies that they're directly related.
The creators are clearly talking about Sephiroth's WILL, and how there is nothing with a more powerful WILL.
Their talking about the power of Sephiroth, Sephiroth as a whole, his BEING , hence
"His will and his EXISTENCE is extremely powerful, there is nothing stronger, nothing above him."
Logically, it means their is no being stronger then Sephiroth.
theyre not saying "No one has a stronger willpower then his"
[quote]
I would like to see this proof. Because there are a lot of things that "stronger" can mean, and superior isn't one of those definitions. Aside from that, there's still the matter of them referencing his will.
Links would be nice. Then there's the fact that if it was translatedused that way once, it doesn't mean that's the only translation/use. Simply being the same word doesn't automatically give them the same meaning, especially when context is taken into consideration.And again, there's the matter of them referencing his will.
In the Ultimania Guide, released after that interview, they claim that Genesis' combat abilities are ranked equal to Sephiroth's. Meaning that, as with this entire compilation, the most recent statements override previous ones. It also screws around with the power charts yet again.
He covered a single city. The timeline in her profile in the Anniversary UOG says that, when stopping Meteor, Aerith used a mere portion of the Lifestream. Heck, you admit to being a aware of the fact that a small portion of the overall Lifestream stopped Meteor. This "small portion" covered pretty much the entire planet. If a small portion covers the entire planet, then Sephiroth covering the skies above a single city isn't a sign that he has a lot of it at his disposal.Oh, and he was infecting it for two years at the most. As far as we're aware, the Negative Lifestream didn't begin forming until Geostigma, which didn't appear until some time between VII and AC.
Midgar is huge, its bar far the biggest city in FF7, although we don't know how much of the lifestream he actually has, midgar sized + his willpower is enough to stop anyone in FF7
Vin, the statement is speaking of Sephiroth as a person as well as his will. It says will and existence, not just will, and as pointed out before, it says nothing above him, not nothing above his will.
While the statement doesn't say Sephiroth is the most powerful, merely that nothing is better than him, it does in fact refer to both his will and his power.