Final Fantasy VIII vs. Final Fantasy VII

Started by Dark-Jaxx7 pages

Originally posted by EvilAngel
1) You'll do anything to win this point won't you?

Well tough luck, their character, anything they say goes, legal works supports that, which btw > anything you have to say.

2) I'm gonig to assume the same person doesn't own every character in that universe. Therefore his words do not hold the same weight.

P.S Common mistake, Omega never abosrbed the lifestream the same way other beings do, he was a mere container for it. It's purpose was to take it to another planet.

1. But their GAME does not, the feats do not, and feats>statements.

So if he is crushed by a truck and they say he can lift a building, we disregard the feat and say he can lift a building?

2. Sure they do, just like Kitase does not own everything in FFVII. Shit, like PK said, Square could boot his ass(we won't get that lucky) and give his job to anyone they wanted.

Originally posted by SHM
Ah, and I would pay a lot of money to see PK meeting Nomura, or Kitase, or Nojima, and trying to correct them about their own story.

That would be so fuc*ing pathetic and hilarious! 😆

It be almost as pathetic and hilarious as your entire "argument' here.

"IGNORE reason, logic and THE GAME ITSELF because the game creators are more important."

You know WHY they are important?

Because of the game and no other effin' reason.

We're debating Final Fantasy VII. NOT the retards who made it and what they think. ESPECIALLY when it flatout contradicts evidence from the games.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. But their GAME does not, the feats do not, and feats>statements.

So if he is crushed by a truck and they say he can lift a building, we disregard the feat and say he can lift a building?

2. Sure they do, just like Kitase does not own everything in FFVII. Shit, like PK said, Square could boot his ass(we won't get that lucky) and give his job to anyone they wanted.

1. No if's no buts, legal works backs them, it's called tough s**t.

Kitase speaks on behalf of the whole FF7 team. That was declared. Go back and read the top of the interview, I'm sure that is mentioned.

It's a moot point, if it's happened, give me the actual example. It hasn't so drop it.

Just because Marvel and/or capcom has several writers constantly trying to outdo each other doesn't mean all companies are the same. FF7 is a story, so one should and must assume their saying Sephiroth is the strongest is significant for certain reasons that are or may be plot related.

To be honest Jaxx i care less you don't like it. That's the way it is, is the way it should and will be treated.

come on people can we liven up with each other please.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
1. No if's no buts, legal works backs them, it's called tough s**t.

Kitase speaks on behalf of the whole FF7 team. That was declared. Go back and read the top of the interview, I'm sure that is mentioned.

It's a moot point, if it's happened, give me the actual example. It hasn't so drop it.

Just because Marvel and/or capcom has several writers constantly trying to outdo each other doesn't mean all companies are the same. FF7 is a story, so one should and must assume their saying Sephiroth is the strongest is significant for certain reasons that are or may be plot related.

To be honest Jaxx i care less you don't like it. That's the way it is, is the way it should and will be treated.

1. Nope, it's called a bunch of morons who can't give their characters any feats to back their claims up.

2. Sure, he does, which only shows how they are all in fact morons in the case of power consistency.

3. But he doesn't really show it. I go by what I see when it comes to things like this, there are times when we must use logic and feats to judge things like this, statements don't amount to anything.

4. Nah. Omega>Sephiroth.

I much preffered FFVIII.

1-3) Not even gonna bother, you're problem.

4) .......... *slap* .......

Originally posted by EvilAngel
1-3) Not even gonna bother, you're problem.

4) .......... *slap* .......

1. Nah, I don't have a problem.

2. Why would you hit me!? 🙁

Because you're being annoying, according to you, the writers and creators of games are "Morons". Then just don't play them, and don't debate/talk about them. It's that simple.

Seems you have a real problem trusting people IMO. You must see it with your own eyes, otherwise it can't be so. I don't envy you.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Because you're being annoying, according to you, the writers and creators of games are "Morons". Then just don't play them, and don't debate/talk about them. It's that simple.

Seems you have a real problem trusting people IMO. You must see it with your own eyes, otherwise it can't be so. I don't envy you.

1. Well they are, in the sense they can't be consistent with their characters abilities.

2. They say he is strongest. He has done nothing to prove it. If they say he is strongest, they should give him a feat to prove it.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Well they are, in the sense they can't be consistent with their characters abilities.

2. They say he is strongest. He has done nothing to prove it. If they say he is strongest, they should give him a feat to prove it.

1. Not really, they just don't want to make up some random battle to appease people like you, who need to see those things to believe.

2. Who cares? Only you and Pyron Knight apparently

Originally posted by EvilAngel
1. Not really, they just don't want to make up some random battle to appease people like you, who need to see those things to believe.

2. Who cares? Only you and Pyron Knight apparently

1. No, but he should have better feats than what he currently has.

2. Appealing to the Majority fallacy.

1. Like when? Name me a time he couldn't done so, without changing the plot lines of the stories and Animes thus far.

2. ....K.....W/E

The games are just a way the creators uses to present their ideas. If they decide to present it, in the form of a book, movie, or interview(instead of a game), it's still their ideas, only presented in a diferent format. It's still canon.

Everything comes from their heads. If you say the ideas presented by them in interviews aren't canon, then we can all say the ideas presented by them in the games aren't canon either.

You two(PK and Jaxx) are basing your argument on the notion that FFVII is canon, only if presented in media format. But that's bullshit you two picked from your asses. There is no rule stating that a story, to be canon, have to be presented in one format only.

And stop with the "contradicting the story" bullshit. Sephiroth didn't have "impressive feats" because he wanted to prolong the fight with Cloud and make him suffer. Something that wouldn't be possible if he used his full power from the beginning.
There is no contradiction.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Nope, it's called a bunch of morons who can't give their characters any feats to back their claims up.

2. Sure, he does, which only shows how they are all in fact morons in the case of power consistency.

3. But he doesn't really show it. I go by what I see when it comes to things like this, there are times when we must use logic and feats to judge things like this, statements don't amount to anything.

4. Nah. Omega>Sephiroth.

1) Willpower strong enough to hold a destruction capable of ending everything, infecting lifestream, creating a plague, gaining power over the negative lifestream, becoming the new Jenova entity, threatened to transform the entire planet into his own vessel raiding other planets

2) How so?

3) Sephiroth has more feats then Omega, Sephiroth was stated above any other character by the creators themselves, stop kidding yourself.

4) Ok, so what feats does Omega have that puts him above Sephiroth? The fact that he can be a container of lifestream to bring the lifestream to another planet?

Lifestream is different in many ways, when it was just floating there, Cloud survived being in it, same with Tifa, when it was ATTACKING, meteor, meteor was being disitegrated, towns were being destroyed, Denzels mom was exposed to it and died instantly.

...When were any towns "being destroyed" at all? The only things destroyed in that confrontation were Meteor, and the sections of Midgar below Meteor (But that was due to Meteor, rather than the Lifestream).

As for Denzel's mother? She died in Sector Seven, after the pillar collapsed.

Been over this a thousand times, willpower, TK are the the same thing, FF7 never used the word "telekinesis" but they are capable of doing the exact same things, holding/moving things in place with his mind power.

No, they really aren't. Willpower and telekinesis are hardly "the same thing." Telekinesis deals in physically holding things back. Willpower doesn't deal with that. Sephiroth kept his mind from being caught in the flow of the Lifestream through willpower. Something that isn't remotely physical.

Midgar is huge, and it covered ATLEAST that, because normally you can see the skies from hundreds of miles away to the mountains for example that are waay beyond the city, during Sephiroths fight, it was covering as far as the eye can see.

It wasn't covering as far as the eye can see. We don't really get much of a view of the area beyond where Cloud and Sephiroth are fighting.

In AC all it did was show them attacking, in FF7 he brought them in to 'engage battle' most likely he let them fight.

It's not "most likely" that he brought them to him and let them fight at all. There's nothing indicating what happened there. It's just as likely that they broke free as it is that he let them loose willingly.

SHM have more control over the lifestream then Sephiroth? wtf.. they were CREATED by Sephiroth, they are completely composed of the NEGATIVE lifestream, and why is the NEGATIVE lifestream referred to as NEGATIVE? Because they are infected by J-cells, and who are the J-cells by? JENOVA, and who is JENOVA? Sephiroth.

1) I never said that they did have more control over it than him. That's simply how it should work, given what they're composed of as compared to what Sephiroth is composed of.

2) Except Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo have absolutely no Jenova Cells in them whatsoever. The entire reason why they needed the children was because without Jenova Cells, they were incapable of sensing her themselves. They're composed of Negative Lifestream, but NL doesn't particularly contain Jenova Cells. It's simply an altered Lifestream, much like Stagnant Lifestream.

With a gesture they created Negative lifestream shadow creepers.. Sephiroth with a gesture covered the entire skies with Negative Lifestream

Sephiroth summoning the NL doesn't really have much to do with the point I was making on that one. I'm simply saying that their control is in no way, shape, or form minor.

Being composed of it does not equal having control of all of it in the planet, Sephiroth has complete control over J-cells because he is the new form of Jenova, he was the one who infected it in the first place, SHM are just weak remnants of Sephiroth, he created them, for the purpose of restoring himself, SHM cannot use the full power of the negative lifestream, you would need complete control over J-Cells to do that which SHM don't have, only Jenova(Sephiroth) does.

I never said that being composed of it did equal having control of all of it in the planet. Oh, and you wouldn't need Jenova Cells to have complete control over the Negative Lifestream. In fact, as shown by Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, you don't even need to have Jenova Cells to control it.

It was proven in the movie. Did you watch it? They summoned the Creepers without the aid of Materia.

And that doesn't qualify as "magic" any more than Cloud's Bladebeam or Sephiroth's Lakiri do.

And that's a translation of the UOG. In the end of it, you will find information about the Reunion Files:

I actually had to lamo at that. Ryu's RF information in his UOG translations are not direct translations from the UOG. And please, don't lecture me on that FAQ. I talked to the guy who translated and posted it on a regular basis, and have read over it multiple times.

Oh, and I actually have the Reunion Files. Something that really amuses me, as people often refer to Ryu's summaries of the information without actually having the Reunion Files themselves. Heck, I've even seen people claim that the information was from the UOG.

Don't get me wrong, Ryu is an excellent translator, and I trust any information he provides. However, aside from the fact that the SCs are also referred to as summons without the capital "s," I would have to talk to him personally again to see if that was an accurate translation, seeing as there are a plethora of mistranslations and typos in the Reunion Files. For example, the translation in Tifa's profile referring to her as a "koibito" (lover in the literal sense) wasn't translated very well into English, and there was a point in which the English translation referred to Cloud as a SOLDIER.

Then stop ignoring the fact the SHM used magic(Summons) without Materia. Stop ignoring the fact Sephiroth can use magic without Materia. Stop underrating him all the time.

Stop ignoring the fact that the SHM don't use magic without materia. Stop ignoring the fact that Sephiroth has never been shown using magic without materia. Stop overrating him all the time.

And a suggestion for future debates? Don't try to argue with materials that you don't actually have access to. Because arguing with basic summaries of what's in the material doesn't work out too well.

Ok, so what feats does Omega have that puts him above Sephiroth? The fact that he can be a container of lifestream to bring the lifestream to another planet?

Omega WEAPON? Nothing really. The only thing we've seen from Omega is its uber-barrier thing. Now, if we're talking about Omega Weiss, that's another matter, as his speed outclasses pretty much anything we've seen from another character besides Chaos Vincent.

Originally posted by VinCon01
When were any towns "being destroyed" at all? The only things destroyed in that confrontation were Meteor, and the sections of Midgar below Meteor (But that was due to Meteor, rather than the Lifestream).

As for Denzel's mother? She died in Sector Seven, after the pillar collapsed.


Denzels FOSTER mother died as soon as she was exposed to the lifestream that was attacking meteor, the fact that lifestream power source to everything in FF7 and can disintegrate meteor, fairly quickly is enough to know its a force not to be reckoned with


No, they really aren't. Willpower and telekinesis are hardly "the same thing." Telekinesis deals in physically holding things back. Willpower doesn't deal with that. Sephiroth kept his mind from being caught in the flow of the Lifestream through willpower. Something that isn't remotely physical.

Again, it has NEVER been stated as TELEKINESIS in FF7, so what difference is it if he holds Holy making it immovable, lifting up the whole party and torturing them, taking down the top of the shinra building, all with the power of the mind, either definition it makes no difference.


It wasn't covering as far as the eye can see. We don't really get much of a view of the area beyond where Cloud and Sephiroth are fighting.

Just look in the distance between buildings, theres nothing but NL as far as you can see.


It's not "most likely" that he brought them to him and let them fight at all. There's nothing indicating what happened there. It's just as likely that they broke free as it is that he let them loose willingly.

So they all just somehow "fly" in similtaneously? Just like a second earlier when he was bringing them in and slashing them back?


1) I never said that they did have more control over it than him. That's simply how it should work, given what they're composed of as compared to what Sephiroth is composed of.

Again, Sephiroth CREATED the SHM, Sephiroth CREATED the NL, why should it work that SHM have more control over the NL when Sephiroth creates both of them?


2) Except Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo have absolutely no Jenova Cells in them whatsoever. The entire reason why they needed the children was because without Jenova Cells, they were incapable of sensing her themselves. They're composed of Negative Lifestream, but NL doesn't particularly contain Jenova Cells. It's simply an altered Lifestream, much like Stagnant Lifestream.

Where has it been stated SHM have "absolutly no Jenova Cells"? They are physical manifestations of Sephiroth afterall, even if they were created by the NL, the Jenova Cells were the first reason NL came to existence, when Sephiroth merged with the lfiestream contaminating it with J-cells.


I never said that being composed of it did equal having control of all of it in the planet. Oh, and you wouldn't need Jenova Cells to have complete control over the Negative Lifestream. In fact, as shown by Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, you don't even need to have Jenova Cells to control it.

I'm still waiting on where ur getting the info on SHM have absolutely no J-cells, keep in mind that they ARE weak remnants of Sephiroth, and the NL was originally created by J-cells, logically they should have small control over the NL.


Omega WEAPON? Nothing really. The only thing we've seen from Omega is its uber-barrier thing. Now, if we're talking about Omega Weiss, that's another matter, as his speed outclasses pretty much anything we've seen from another character besides Chaos Vincent. [/B]

Keep in mind that we've never AC Sephiroth at 100%, also remember that Loz is a weak remnant of Sephiroth and look at his speed, Sephiroth is far more powerful then all 3 combined even when he's not going at 100%, you can imagine how fast he should be at 100%, creators even state theres nothing above him.

Stop underrating him all the time.

Whoa there, champ, Vin hardly underrates Sephiroth. He and myself have been discussing FF VII for years, he knows what he's talking about.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
1. Like when? Name me a time he couldn't done so, without changing the plot lines of the stories and Animes thus far.

2. ....K.....W/E

One obvious one is better speed feats, as Chaos currently crushes him in that department.

You didn't answer what i asked.

I said:

Name me a time when he could have shown better feats that doesn't alter the plot lines of any of the stories thus far.