Obi-Wan vs Mace Windu

Originally posted by Man of Christ
he force crushed grevious while grevious was running, so why couldnt he do it to obi wan?

palp had already luged foward and engaged him in saber combat so he had to use the blade

Because Grievous isn't Force-sensitive and Kenobi is.
Jedi AND Sith are both trained to throw up a defensive barrier to protect against Force attacks.
In which case, Mace would have to overwhelm Obi Wan's Force-barrier.
During saber combat this is difficult for he would need all the power that he could muster and that takes concentration.
Concentration is at a minimal during said combat.
I DO, however, think that Windu would win for his Mastery of lightsaber combat.
Kenobi is more of the "by the book" duelist.
Great at defense, but very predictable.

Originally posted by Faunus
That doesn't mean it always will. Most lightsaber styles utilized by PT Jedi were trained to deflect blasterfire - clearly, that didn't always work against skilled opponents (Coleman Trebor / Jango Fett) or overwhelming numbers (March on the Temple).

And while we're using sources that can be edited by anybody, that statement basically agrees with me. Anakin and Grievous were the only two notable duelists who were "trapped" and overcome by Obi-Wan's Soresu, and they both happen to be exceedingly arrogant and insanely aggressive combatants with notable flaws of their own.

Grievous had been told by Dooku (in both CWC and LoE) that he needed the advantages of "fear, surprise, and intimidation" on his side were he to engage a Jedi in combat, and that if any one of those were missing it would be best for him to retreat. Against Kenobi, he had none. And he got owned, because - as demonstrated in the cartoon in a sequence that appears to have been designed as an explanation to why Grievous lost - he used "standard attacks," didn't "control the central line," and had none of the necessary advantages he would need to face an upper-level Jedi in combat.

Anakin... was Anakin. Basically, an idiot.

Also, he never managed to beat Asajj Ventress in any of their seven or so encounters. This would be because, in addition to her incredible skill and prowess, she was cunning and patient, not ticked off or desperate as Anakin and Grievous were in their respective situations.

Right. I've given no proof. (sarcasm, btw, as you appear incapable of comprehending that)

I've given far more proof than should be necessary for anyone who isn't either a complete idiot or biased beyond reason. You appear to be both, so wouldn't expect you to actually understand this, but whatever.

Originally posted by skywalker833
I am actually not being biased. I'm just trying to show you guys how Obi Wan could win, because everyone thinks he is inferior to mace windu because he's had more experience. I'm not saying obi1 will win, I honestly think that either one has about a 50/50 chance of winning. You take everything so seriously, and turn it into a feud.

Don't tell me i have a "long way to go man". I am not bending facts with personal feelings. I'm just trying to tell you guys that imo, Kenobi has a fairly large chance of winning. I'm not saying he will. As I've said probably 20 times before, but you don't seem to understand, either one has a good chance of winning. Mace probably will, but Kenobi might also. You guys really seem to underrate Kenobi when it is in comparison to Mace Windu.

I thought you conceded this eight pages ago:

Originally posted by skywalker833
Ok. It seems you have enough proof.

Originally posted by skywalker833
Don't tell me i have a "long way to go man". I am not bending facts with personal feelings. I'm just trying to tell you guys that imo, Kenobi has a fairly large chance of winning. I'm not saying he will. As I've said probably 20 times before, but you don't seem to understand, either one has a good chance of winning. Mace probably will, but Kenobi might also. You guys really seem to underrate Kenobi when it is in comparison to Mace Windu.

People, just because he happens to hold an opinion that is NOT your opinion, doesn't make him biased/fanboy/etc... Obi-Wan is probably my favorite character too, and yes, I said that mace would probably win on even ground, but if there's a tactical advantage to be exploited, Obi-Wan could take this. Don't underestimate him... he's the person who handled an offensive barrage from a supremely enraged uber Mustafar Vader.

Mace is the superior swordsmen (PURE swordsmanship), but it would seem that Obi-Wan is the superior tactician. Just because Windu mastered Vaapad (my favorite lightsaber form, incidentally... the way they did it in the movie just sucks though. 😖), it doesn't make him invicnbile-compared-to-anyone-but-Yoda. Please, do remember that he also 'defeated' Sidious due to a tactical advantage- the window was open and he landed a KICK to Sidious' head, not slashed his hand off with a lightsaber. If there was no window, wouldn't Sidious be able to jump out of the way and retrieve his lightsaber, potentially?

Mace isn't all powerful, and besides, as Obi-Wan has almost no trace of the dark side in him, Vaapad will be more hard-pressed to overcome his defenses. If someone says something contrarictory to the common opinion, it does NOT make him a fanboy/biased in any way. (Biased is saying that Obi-Wan is a better swordsmen than Mace, while it was esstablished that he is not.)

Originally posted by Tangible God
Kid, get over your bias.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
People, just because he happens to hold an opinion that is NOT your opinion, doesn't make him biased/fanboy/etc... Obi-Wan is probably my favorite character too, and yes, I said that mace would probably win on even ground, but if there's a tactical advantage to be exploited, Obi-Wan could take this. Don't underestimate him... he's the person who handled an offensive barrage from a supremely enraged uber Mustafar Vader.

Mace is the superior swordsmen (PURE swordsmanship), but it would seem that Obi-Wan is the superior tactician. Just because Windu mastered Vaapad (my favorite lightsaber form, incidentally... the way they did it in the movie just sucks though. 😖), it doesn't make him invicnbile-compared-to-anyone-but-Yoda. Please, do remember that he also 'defeated' Sidious due to a tactical advantage- the window was open and he landed a KICK to Sidious' head, not slashed his hand off with a lightsaber. If there was no window, wouldn't Sidious be able to jump out of the way and retrieve his lightsaber, potentially?

Mace isn't all powerful, and besides, as Obi-Wan has almost no trace of the dark side in him, Vaapad will be more hard-pressed to overcome his defenses. If someone says something contrarictory to the common opinion, it does NOT make him a fanboy/biased in any way. (Biased is saying that Obi-Wan is a better swordsmen than Mace, while it was esstablished that he is not.)

Actually I think that the people who go nuts when sum1 even suggests Obi-Wan might have a chance are the real fanboys... Mace Fanboys that is... If i suggested Mace would have a chance against Yoda(even though hes no.2 to Yoda) nobody wuld mind that.

I do think Vapaad is better than Soresu as a lightsaber combat style, so I do think Mace has superior Lightsaber skills. But that doesnt mean Obi-Wan cant last a while (like he did against Anakin) or win by being smart and gaining a tactical advantage (again like he did against Anakin)..

Anakin would have won that fight if Obi-Wan didnt gain that tactical advantage, but thats what Obi-Wans good at, so its all fair and square.. Sure, itd be harder to outsmart a more experienced jedi, doesnt mean it cant be done... Obi-Wans the perfect jedi in the sense that he doesnt just rely on his force skills... he uses his intellect and wisdom..

Like when he set a rancor lose on Asajj, to distract her from him.. she accuses him of running away, and he sed a good jedi will just find the most efficient way to end a fight.. and by the way, whoever said Obi-Wan never beat Ventress has completely missed the fact that he never WANTED to kill her.... he felt for her, and wanted to help her..

and by the way, DarthSith gave quotes from Lucas in the other board saying that ROTS Anakin was as strong as Sidious... so defeating him was almost just a big thing as defeating Sidious!

and matching him with the Force was huge as well! Anakin manhandled Ventress and Durge just using the Force in a way youd expect Yoda or Sidious to handle them.. He tossed Durge into a Sun!!

But I fully admit in Saber skills ALONE, say in an open desert on even ground, Mace would win every time, due to his mastery of Vapaad, but Obi-Wan would last a while due to his mastery of Soresu.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
People, just because he happens to hold an opinion that is NOT your opinion, doesn't make him biased/fanboy/etc... Obi-Wan is probably my favorite character too, and yes, I said that mace would probably win on even ground, but if there's a tactical advantage to be exploited, Obi-Wan could take this. Don't underestimate him... he's the person who handled an offensive barrage from a supremely enraged uber Mustafar Vader.

Mace is the superior swordsmen (PURE swordsmanship), but it would seem that Obi-Wan is the superior tactician. Just because Windu mastered Vaapad (my favorite lightsaber form, incidentally... the way they did it in the movie just sucks though. 😖), it doesn't make him invicnbile-compared-to-anyone-but-Yoda. Please, do remember that he also 'defeated' Sidious due to a tactical advantage- the window was open and he landed a KICK to Sidious' head, not slashed his hand off with a lightsaber. If there was no window, wouldn't Sidious be able to jump out of the way and retrieve his lightsaber, potentially?

Mace isn't all powerful, and besides, as Obi-Wan has almost no trace of the dark side in him, Vaapad will be more hard-pressed to overcome his defenses. If someone says something contrarictory to the common opinion, it does NOT make him a fanboy/biased in any way. (Biased is saying that Obi-Wan is a better swordsmen than Mace, while it was esstablished that he is not.)

Obi Wan has a chance should environment be in his favour, some of Mace's abilities are taken away, or Obi-Wan is given some. It's like saying Jar Jar could defeat Zett Jukasa; Sure it's in the realm of the possible, but what are the f*cking odds?

Oh and, even with the window blocking his "dodge," there was still a big office for Palpatine to jump into as well, so...

Originally posted by skywalker833
What is so bias about having an opinion, huh? You can't call me a fanboy just because i'm saying Obi-Wan has a chance! A fairly good one too. Of course Mace will probably win, I can still say that Obi-Wan has a good enough chance. You can't call me a fanboy for that. That's not fair.

I'd say the chances are about:
Kenobi 40%
Windu 50%
Stalemate 10%

Unless Kenobi can pull a Death Star out of his ass, I don't think he'll win.
But Obi Wan has a good chance of survival. He CAN win.

Originally posted by Tangible God
It's bias and potential fanboyism when someone states something that goes against the general consensus. It's not even so much the "Obi-Wan has a chance" thing; it's the 50/50 chance opinion. 50/50 means it goes one way or another, when it doesn't. It goes in favour to Mace. 25/75 would have been more appropriate, maybe even 30/70, but 50 feckin' 50?

Okay, I'll just say something crazy, alright? Kit Fisto was stronger than Obi-Wan Kenobi. Although that would be completely insane, and against the general opinion, someone who said that could actually believe it due to some personal reasons... you know what, here, I'll say that Kit Fisto could manipulate water, something no one else was seen to do, so he must be the strongest. Of course, that's complete bs, but someone may actually believe it... the guy just said that Obi-Wan has a good chance against Mace. It's not so unbelievable. I believe that Sidious could take on Yoda in a rematch, which, for reasons I don't understand, the majority of the public believes is false. Does it make me a Sidious fanboy? No. Calling someone a fanboy is a silly excuse for someone who is incapable of debating without resorting to insulting the other.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Obi Wan has a chance should environment be in his favour, some of Mace's abilities are taken away, or Obi-Wan is given some. It's like saying Jar Jar could defeat Zett Jukasa; Sure it's in the realm of the possible, but what are the f*cking odds?

For example, I'd say that in the senate, Obi-Wan would win. Although Mace is quite fast as seen by most EU sources (movie actor = not an example. He's just slow..., Obi-Wan could likely defend against most of his blows while giving ground and jumping up, eventually cutting him during a jump. While on, say, the plains of Dantooine, Mace will destroy him after a long and brutal fight. Mace is stronger, but Obi-Wan has an ingenius tactical mind along with his natural creativity and the form that perfectly fits into all of this- he was noted as the greatest master of Soresu, after all. Don't underestimate his prowess, please... no one is denying Mace is stronger. Only that Obi-Wan has a chance to win.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Oh and, even with the window blocking his "dodge," there was still a big office for Palpatine to jump into as well, so...

With one way of escape cut off, Sidious' escape route will be predictable and he would be cut down faster than he could say 'unlimited power' 😛. Let's just put it this way... if the kick would have happened somewhere else, where a window was not included, Sidious would have jumped, retrieved his lightsaber, and would possibly have overwhelmed Mace in the end. Mace used a tactical advantage which he himself created by smashing the window, and thus, even if Sidious' lightsaber skills are superior, Mace won because of using a tactical/environmental advantage. That's a legitimate win, people, it doesn't mean Mace sucks or anything. It means he had an advantage, and he took it. That is GOOD.

That is if Sidious didn't throw the fight, which with all the evidence I saw recently, is quite likely. XD

Originally posted by Darth Maliko
I'd say the chances are about:
Kenobi 40%
Windu 50%
Stalemate 10%

Unless Kenobi can pull a Death Star out of his ass, I don't think he'll win.
But Obi Wan has a good chance of survival. He CAN win.

Those are good %'s. This is what I really meant when I said 50/50, or close enough. And like a couple people said, if this fight were at a place where obi-wan could take a tactical advantage, like at mustafar or kashyyk or somewhere like that, obi would probably win. If it were on a flat surface like in the tatooine desert, it would be a long fight but Mace would win.

he didnt throw the saber fight, but like you sed it could have gone either way.. however he did fake how weak he was with the Force Lightning. If he didnt fake it and just shot maximum power, then it would have seriously hurt both Mace and Sidious(from Mace's lightsaber deflecting some of it back), so who knows who would have won.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
he didnt throw the saber fight, but like you sed it could have gone either way.. however he did fake how weak he was with the Force Lightning. If he didnt fake it and just shot maximum power, then it would have seriously hurt both Mace and Sidious(from Mace's lightsaber deflecting some of it back), so who knows who would have won.

Another debate for another time, folks, let's keep it out of this one for the moment 😛. Oh, and just for the matter of this discussion... would it not be possible for Sidious to overwhelm Mace with force lightning or maybe a force push, knocking him back, and then using the force to get Kit Fisto's saber or something along the lines of that? Obiviously, he might not have thrown the saber fight, but he was for from defeated... he could have continued it, but Anakin's arrival allowed for an even better alternative.

We COULD make a thread about it, but I think people are tired of all these "Did Sidious win?" arguments xD.

Sidious already tried to overwhelm Windu with lightning. Didn't work.

And Fisto's lightsaber was in an entirely different room.

Hey, lets not get off topic here. 😬

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Okay, I'll just say something crazy, alright? Kit Fisto was stronger than Obi-Wan Kenobi. Although that would be completely insane, and against the general opinion, someone who said that could actually believe it due to some personal reasons... you know what, here, I'll say that Kit Fisto could manipulate water, something no one else was seen to do, so he must be the strongest. Of course, that's complete bs, but someone may actually believe it... the guy just said that Obi-Wan has a good chance against Mace. It's not so unbelievable. I believe that Sidious could take on Yoda in a rematch, which, for reasons I don't understand, the majority of the public believes is false. Does it make me a Sidious fanboy? No. Calling someone a fanboy is a silly excuse for someone who is incapable of debating without resorting to insulting the other.

Believe what you want, that doesn't make him right. Get to know Noobaris. He can debate here, but he'd suck Bane's cock in a flash meanwhile Bane's pulling a moon from orbit to crush Sidious. He's a fanboy. And while skywalker833 may not be a fanboy, he should be careful of who he claims can beat who, because this a forum of Star Wars nerds, and many of us know what we're talking about.