Originally posted by Darth Exodus
LOL, 'a very smart and tactical fighter', It wasn't that smart to fight your nemasis on a space station filled with about 200,000 stormtroopers.Bare in mind that Kenobi was stated to be a better diplomat than a fighter/stratagist.
Yes a very smart and tactical fighter. Just because he is better at diplomacy doesn't mean he cant be a heck of a fighter.
Originally posted by darthsith19
It's a fact, ask anybody.But okay, Dark Rendezvous says Dooku and Mace are equals, while Obsession shows Dooku running from Mace in combat. Dooku was shown to be Kenobi's superior. Yoda also tells Obi-Wan that he is not powerful enough to face the Emperor. However, Mace is left on Coruscant when Yoda leaves so he can deal with the Emperor should he need to. Lucas states that you have to be either Yoda or Mace to be able to compete with the Emperor in a duel, as well. Kenobi's not in the list with them. All this is proof that Mace > Kenobi.
Obsessions also showed Dooku and Mace as equals... They lightsaber clashed for a few scenes, and there was no indication of either of them gaining the advantage.. although Dooku seemed to be gaining the psychological advantage, but thats just Dookus style, and probably why he fairs better in a saber fight with Mace than Sidious did.
The running away was just the smart thing to do... He couldnt just stand there fighting Mace to a stand -off waiting for the other jedis and clone troopers to come. That just would have been really dumb!
Notice the difference between that fight and the fight between Mace and Asajj Ventress... In the Asajj fight it was made clear that Mace was superior and was going to win, and Asajj even admitted thats why shes running away. Totally different to the Mace vs. Dooku in Obsessions.
Still i would give Mace the edge in a Saber fight, but would say Dooku is better with the Force. He took out SoraBulq (whose mastery of Vapaad is Almost equal to Maces) with Force lightning in the middle of a lightsaber fight, while fighting off Tholme!!! which is why I dnt see Mace taking out Obi-Wan with the same kind of Force Move that Dooku did.
He will take him with his lightsaber most likely.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Obsessions also showed Dooku and Mace as equals... They lightsaber clashed for a few scenes, and there was no indication of either of them gaining the advantage.. although Dooku seemed to be gaining the psychological advantage, but thats just Dookus style, and probably why he fairs better in a saber fight with Mace than Sidious did.Still i would give Mace the edge in a Saber fight, but would say Dooku is better with the Force. He took out SoraBulq (whose mastery of Vapaad is Almost equal to Maces) with Force lightning in the middle of a lightsaber fight, while fighting off Tholme!!! which is why I dnt see Mace taking out Obi-Wan with the same kind of Force Move that Dooku did.
He will take him with his lightsaber most likely.
Force Crush seems to be Mace's best force technique.
And by ROTS Mace out duels a better swordsman that Dooku in his master Sidious who took out 3 jedi masters in seconds and I haven't read obsession but I doubt Mace was fully submerged in Vapaad. And in regars to Sora Bulq and Vapaad, Mace said it best "And he did not master Vaapad. Vaapad mastered him." Sora is not on Mace's level and neither is Obiwan.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Force Crush seems to be Mace's best force technique.And by ROTS Mace out duels a better swordsman that Dooku in his master Sidious who took out 3 jedi masters in seconds and I haven't read obsession but I doubt Mace was fully submerged in Vapaad. And in regars to Sora Bulq and Vapaad, Mace said it best "And he did not master Vaapad. Vaapad mastered him." Sora is not on Mace's level and neither is Obiwan.
well theres no actual proof that Sidious is a better swordsman than Dooku.. Dooku was also far far above those 3 jedi Sidious killed... he took out Obi-Wan with a simple Force move while fighting Anakin! Just because Sidious is the Master doesnt mean his saber skills are better as he never trained Dooku in Saber skills.. Sidious would take out Dooku with his Better Force powers, and also has a HUGE pyschological lead over Dooku..
Obsessions takes place not long before ROTS. that quote about Vapaad mastering Sora Bulq, is relating to Sora turning to the Dark Side.. Mace himself says Sora knows Vapaad almost as well as he does(before he knew he turned to the Dark Side)... and Dooku took Sora out before he turned to the Dark Side... After turning to the Dark Side Sora did fight Mace, neither of them gaining the advantage... Mace had to leave the fight to save other Jedis.
And after turning to the dark side Sora is working for Dooku, and hasnt overthrown him to be Sidious's apprentice himself... and he certainly claims that now even Mace Windu could not defeat him.
I do agree Mace has the advantage in a saber fight, though Dooku might be able to fight him to a stand off by psychologically intimidating him, which is what he does.. Also the fact that Dooku always keeps a hand free which he can use Force Lighning or other Force moves with.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
well theres no actual proof that Sidious is a better swordsman than Dooku.. Dooku was also far far above those 3 jedi Sidious killed... he took out Obi-Wan with a simple Force move while fighting Anakin! Just because Sidious is the Master doesnt mean his saber skills are better as he never trained Dooku in Saber skills.. Sidious would take out Dooku with his Better Force powers, and also has a HUGE pyschological lead over Dooku..Obsessions takes place not long before ROTS. that quote about Vapaad mastering Sora Bulq, is relating to Sora turning to the Dark Side.. Mace himself says Sora knows Vapaad almost as well as he does(before he knew he turned to the Dark Side)... and Dooku took Sora out before he turned to the Dark Side... After turning to the Dark Side Sora did fight Mace, neither of them gaining the advantage... Mace had to leave the fight to save other Jedis.
And after turning to the dark side Sora is working for Dooku, and hasnt overthrown him to be Sidious's apprentice himself... and he certainly claims that now even Mace Windu could not defeat him.
I do agree Mace has the advantage in a saber fight, though Dooku might be able to fight him to a stand off by psychologically intimidating him, which is what he does.. Also the fact that Dooku always keeps a hand free which he can use Force Lighning or other Force moves with.
Actually Sidious was more powerful than Dooku, at least by so many notches.
That's why Dooku wanted to wait and bide his time to learn enough before attempting to do battle with the Dark Lord.
Mace Windu isn't intimidated by anyone, not Sidious or Kar Vastor, so that wouldn't work.
And If Dooku used his weak Force lightning on him Mace would just use the Super-conducting loop technique.
Mace could beat either Dooku or Obi-Wan.
A short burst of his "weak force lightning" knocked out Anakin and Sora Bulq for fairly substantial amounts of time, utterly destroyed about half a dozen Kiffar guards, and completely humiliated Quinlan Vos.
And Dooku never intended to assassinate Sidious; he was naïve enough to trust in the false plan his master laid forth for him regarding the future of the galaxy, and got screwed over for it. That, by no means, makes him weak. The fact that he was proclaimed one of the most powerful Jedi in history, and "an even greater Sith Lord," speak for just the opposite.
Originally posted by Faunus
A short burst of his "weak force lightning" knocked out Anakin and Sora Bulq for fairly substantial amounts of time, utterly destroyed about half a dozen Kiffar guards, and completely humiliated Quinlan Vos.And Dooku never intended to assassinate Sidious; he was naïve enough to trust in the false plan his master laid forth for him regarding the future of the galaxy, and got screwed over for it. That, by no means, makes him weak. The fact that he was proclaimed one of the most powerful Jedi in history, and "an even greater Sith Lord," speak for just the opposite.
Comparably to Sidious, Dooku's lightning is weak.
And Mace isn't Sora Bulg nor is he Anakin, Or Vos or a Kiffar Gaurd.
Dooku did intend to kill Sidious eventually, he planned to destroy the Sith from within and would eventually turn on his Master.
Originally posted by Master_StarbuckI never said they were, obviously. But calling his lightning "weak," period, is stupid.
Comparably to Sidious, Dooku's lightning is weak.
And Mace isn't Sora Bulg nor is he Anakin, Or Vos or a Kiffar Gaurd.
Dooku did intend to kill Sidious eventually, he planned to destroy the Sith from within and would eventually turn on his Master.Can you support this assertion?
My stupid brother is basically the next most knowledgeable person next to Rampant_Ox on Dooku and literally wouldn't shut up telling me about how Dooku planned to join Sidious, use him and then eventually kill him when he learned enough secrets as a Sith.
I can also remember when Dooku asked Obi-Wan to join him in AotC and told him he wanted to crush the Sith - he wasn't joking.
Dooku could have cared less about the Sith and their goals, he really wanted planets to secede from the Republic, that's why when Sidious offered to help, he took it, with the plan to use and dump him.
Didn't turn out as he hoped.
And yes, Dooku's lightning is weak, It's only a few tendrils strong and Yoda was able to block it with moderate difficulty unlike with Sidious who ripped the Grandmaster's lightsaber out of his hand with it.
Originally posted by Master_StarbuckYour "stupid" brother isn't a canon source. Sorry.
My stupid brother is basically the next most knowledgeable person next to Rampant_Ox on Dooku and literally wouldn't shut up telling me about how Dooku planned to join Sidious, use him and then eventually kill him when he learned enough secrets as a Sith.I can also remember when Dooku asked Obi-Wan to join him in AotC and told him he wanted to crush the Sith - he wasn't joking.
Dooku could have cared less about the Sith and their goals, he really wanted planets to secede from the Republic, that's why when Sidious offered to help, he took it, with the plan to use and dump him.
Didn't turn out as he hoped.
A multitude of sources, to my knowledge, point to the opposite.
And yes, Dooku's lightning is weak, It's only a few tendrils strong and Yoda was able to block it with moderate difficulty unlike with Sidious who ripped the Grandmaster's lightsaber out of his hand with it.Way to take things completely out of context. In the first duel, Yoda blocked a long-distance, telegraphed attack initiated when neither combatant was moving. Against Sidious, he'd just leapt up and landed on the edge of the Senate pod when the lightning hit his hand and knocked away the saber. The two situations aren't very similar at all.
On second thought, screw it. You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so there's no reason to waste my time here.
Originally posted by Faunus
Your "stupid" brother isn't a canon source. Sorry.A multitude of sources, to my knowledge, point to the opposite.
Way to take things completely out of context. In the first duel, Yoda blocked a long-distance, telegraphed attack initiated when neither combatant was moving. Against Sidious, he'd just leapt up and landed on the edge of the Senate pod when the lightning hit his hand and knocked away the saber. The two situations aren't very similar at all.
On second thought, screw it. You obviously don't know what you're talking about, so there's no reason to waste my time here.
Heh, what a funny attitude to take. You didn't explain your first point and we've already seen how powerful Dooku's lightning is, powerful enough to take out a hot-headed padawan but not a Master.
Also, I don't think we need to debate about Sidious having stronger lightning then Dooku, do we? 🙄
The mechno-chair's exceptional transceiver -- and others like it -- had been created for Sidious by a host of beings, a few of whom were still alive. And if the agents of the Republic -- or the Jedi, for that matter -- were clever and persistent enough, they could succeed in learning more about Sidious than he would want anyone to learn...
He had to be informed, Dooku thought.
Or did he?
For a heartbeat he hesitated, imagining the power that could be his.
Then he went directly to the hyperwave transmitter Sidious had given him, and began his transmission.
Labyrinth of Evil, page 137.
[QUOTE][I]In Yoda