Obi-Wan vs Mace Windu

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
go read his bio on starwars.com.. it says hes unrivalled in that form. it also says hes completely mastered and perfected it.

Also if you read on Makashi you will see that this was specifically designed for blade to blade combat, which is why most jedis do not use it, as it is not relevant to most thier missions. It also says Makashi has created some of the best swordsmen in the whole history of the galaxy.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
[BBack to Mace vs. Obi-Wan.... like I sed it will be decided by the lightsaber fight. If im not wrong they have sparred somewhere in the EU close to ROTS and Mace culdnt get past Obi-Wans defences.. Mace also admits himself hes not neccessarily a better swordsman than ObiWan just because he created Vapaad. [/B]

Agreed.

The only way Obi Wan can win is if he can defend himself long enough to find a weakness in Mace.

Originally posted by skywalker833
The only way Obi Wan can win is if he can defend himself long enough to find a weakness in Mace.

I think Mace would be more likely to find a weakness in Obiwan's defense due to shatterpoint.

I was kinda thinking that when I wrote it.

It seems we still have some people thinking obi might win. I myself, I really dont know, it will be close.

Originally posted by skywalker833
The only way Obi Wan can win is if he can defend himself long enough to find a weakness in Mace.

To be fair I think the best Obi-Wan could do really is fight him to a Stand-Off... and to do that he would have to defend at his very best, and use Soresu to its fullest degree of Mastery.

If Obi-Wan wins it would most likely be from tiring Mace out, and not by finding a weakness.... Tiring opponents out is one of the things Soresu is designed to do, as its minimum effort technique gives the Soresu user great Stamina, and able to last through long tiring fights.

very true. Obi wan will either do that, or he will trap mace in his own offense. Also, mace said just because he made vaapad doesn't mean he is better than obi wan because he is the master of it.

OH yeah Darth Power, welcome to the forums.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
[BIf Obi-Wan wins it would most likely be from tiring Mace out, and not by finding a weakness.... [/B]

Originally posted by skywalker833
Not true. Obi Wan would probably get as tired out as Mace. OBi wan is very good at finding weaknesses, like he did against Anakin, and Maul, which, for both of them was their arrogance.

I wouldn't exactly say he found their weaknesses especially with Maul. If I recall correctly Obiwan had to use some sort of technique to calm himself down while hanging on the ledge or he would have died. I don't recall it being said that Obiwan exploited Maul's weakness per say that he was some smart fighter at that point. Maul's death was more of a fluke. Though exploiting Anakin's arrogance might be debatable. I would need to reread the rots novel and another source on the mindset of the two fighters.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I wouldn't exactly say he found their weaknesses especially with Maul. If I recall correctly Obiwan had to use some sort of technique to calm himself down while hanging on the ledge or he would have died. I don't recall it being said that Obiwan exploited Maul's weakness per say that he was some smart fighter at that point. Maul's death was more of a fluke. Though exploiting Anakin's arrogance might be debatable. I would need to reread the rots novel and another source on the mindset of the two fighters.

I wasn't really talking about maul. Although Maul's arrogance was his death. He was toying around with kenobi, throwing sparks down at him. Then obi wan flew at him and cut him through the torso.

Originally posted by skywalker833
OH yeah Darth Power, welcome to the forums.

Thanks Pal

Originally posted by skywalker833
Not true. Obi Wan would probably get as tired out as Mace. OBi wan is very good at finding weaknesses, like he did against Anakin, and Maul, which, for both of them was their arrogance.

Well id say more than finding peoples weaknessed ObiWan stays calm and focused during a fight and thinks tactically.. it seems he had the "high ground" thing planned. whilst Anakin didnt seem to do much planning, as he was just relying on his power to kill Obi-Wan.

Yoda thinks very highly of Obi-Wan as he uses his brain not just his power. Hes a great warrior but hed rather sit and meditate. He will do everything he can to avoid a fight, but when a fight starts, he will keep a cool head, and end the fight in the most efficient way he can.. e.g. setting a Rancor loose on Asajj Ventress, not because he was scared of her, but just because it was the most efficient way of dealing with her, which is what he explains to her when she accuses him of being a coward for SEEMINGLY always running away from her.

However his chances of outsmarting someone as experienced as Mace are a lot smaller. I still think Mace wuld tire first though. If you read on Soresu, ull find Soresu users have great stamina as they are prepared for longer fights because it is a defensive form of fighting. Makes sense that the "Negotiator" wuld be "The Master" of this style.

To add on to what you said about soresu, it is supposed to trap the person in their own attack. This is its offense i guess. It can also block about 20 strikes per second, and I think the only person who can hit that fast is grievous, so i don't think mace will break his defense.

If obi wan goes all out, he will have a good chance of winning. The only way mace would beat obi wan was if he used the force, which is probably what it will come down to.

Originally posted by skywalker833
If obi wan goes all out, he will have a good chance of winning. The only way mace would beat obi wan was if he used the force, which is probably what it will come down to.

Obi-Wans not weak with the Force. He stalemated Anakin. and Anakins done a lot of great feats with the Force. So I dnt see Mace overpoweing him in this area.

Poeple just assume that Obi-wan is weaker in the force because of what Dooku did to him. But Dooku caught him off guard. All credit to Dooku for doing that. But also Dooku is better than Mace with the Force. hes been mastering the Force for like 8 decades, and got even more powerful after turning to the Dark Side.

and remember Anakins line "master Obi-Wan is as powerful as Master Windu." I assume he meant power in the force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
and remember Anakins line "master Obi-Wan is as powerful as Master Windu." I assume he meant power in the force.

And i know this has been addressed already. You can assume it meant force power or overall power. But the fact remains that Anakin is a fallible, and there is no proof at all that makes this AOTC quote accurate. And is there any proof that force crush would not work Obiwan? And what great feats is there for obiwan to be considered great in the force? "But EH he tied Anakin Skywalker in the force OMG!"

From his sw databank profiles

In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku. Only the most skilled of the Jedi could master the his Form VII discipline of combat -- the deadly technique known as vaapad -- for its aggressive nature treaded dangerously upon dark side practices.

A respected Jedi on par with the venerable Yoda, Mace Windu was a senior member of the Jedi High Council. His wisdom and experience were legendary, and his words carried great weight.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
And i know this has been addressed already. You can assume it meant force power or overall power. But the fact remains that Anakin is a fallible, and there is no proof at all that makes this AOTC quote accurate. And is there any proof that force crush would not work Obiwan? And what great feats is there for obiwan to be considered great in the force? "But EH he tied Anakin Skywalker in the force OMG!"

From his sw databank profiles

you've quoted about Maces lightsaber skills, his experience and his wisdom, but nothing about his force power and proof that its greater than Obi-Wans.

Obi-Wan was also quite good you know.. In Mace's own words Obi-Wan is "THE Master" of Soresu.. and in Maces own words he is not neccesarily a better swordsman just because he has Vapaad.

Vapaad is a lethal form and would stand a much better chance at taking down sum1 as powerful as Sidious than Soresu.. Obi-Wan would never be able to tke down Sidious because a good defense wuld be next to useless against someone with such great force powers.. something more lethal and aggresive like Vapaad was needed to take down Sidious.

But on the other hand Soresu was sed to be the best style to handle Greivous... so its just about different styles.

As far as wisdom and experience goes... Obi-Wans wisdom and experience is also legendary.. and by ROTS he was contributing at the highest levels of Jedi Strategy according to his SW profile.. and it seems Mace and Yoda would always consult with him according to the movies.

And yeah I do think stalemating the "Chosen One" with the Force was very impressive. Did you see what Anakin did to Asajj Ventress and Durge just using the Force????

Also asking for proof to back up Anakins line in AOTC, well is his quote in the movie not proof in its own right?? Anakin would know the powers of other jedis much better than you or I.. The script was written by George Lucas, and the movies are the most cannon source there is.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
you've quoted about Maces lightsaber skills, his experience and his wisdom, but nothing about his force power and proof that its greater than Obi-Wans.

He is skilled with force crush (an actual offensives ability), use the force to empower his hands to punch and severely dent a battle droid ( I believe Lightsnake said they were made of durasteel), his skills in shatter point, force speed vs kar vastor, then of course he has the core tk powers as well.

Vapaad is a lethal form and would stand a much better chance at taking down sum1 as powerful as Sidious than Soresu.. Obi-Wan would never be able to tke down Sidious because a good defense wuld be next to useless against someone with such great force powers.. something more lethal and aggresive like Vapaad was needed to take down Sidious.

And yeah I do think stalemating the "Chosen One" with the Force was very impressive. Did you see what Anakin did to Asajj Ventress and Durge just using the Force????

So you are using a single feat to make him equal to Mace in the force. And can Obiwan do anything that Mace can't? No

Also asking for proof to back up Anakins line in AOTC, well is his quote in the movie not proof in its own right?? Anakin would know the powers of other jedis much better than you or I.. The script was written by George Lucas, and the movies are the most cannon source there is.

I'll be on later tonight but I strongly urge you to rid personal opinion/speculation out of your posts cause it is really annoying when nothing it backing up much like your last point I just addressed about Obiwan's AOTC power,that is what macde Gideon stop responding and soon it will make me.