Neo vs. Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Gods dont bleed, Gods dont get tired, Gods have very few if any limitations.

Really, how many have you met? Ahaha, I'm kidding, but seriously, the depiction of blood during any of Neo's fight scenes was to sensitize for the audience to ground him down to earth so people can relate. Toward the end when he pretty much became a god, blood is just no longer necessary.

Luke isn't a god either, so don't even think about arguing that point. He's just the little Jedi that could, and well did, but nothing more. The recent novels that told about Luke's accomplishments mean everything to SW fanboys such as yourself, yet mean nothing to casual SW fans such as myself. Anything depicted in the films is what we're all talking about. the thread starter recently went on to give Luke all these powers just to stand up to Neo, and it's based off of sheer bs.

So if I become a semi-famous novelist, and get the greenlight to branch out the Matrix storyline in my own fanboyish ways, I'd make Neo into what, even more of a god than he already is? But then that would be just my hype given to him, not actual storyline.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, I changed all this. Right. 👇

I never said you changed it, AC did. learn to read...

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Funny how you used to be my biggest supporter. You program your droids very well, I might add.

I'm sorry, did you just try to own me with a SW reference? Hahaha, I'm not even touching that one.

Originally posted by Scythe
Really, how many have you met? Ahaha, I'm kidding, but seriously, the depiction of blood during any of Neo's fight scenes was to sensitize for the audience to ground him down to earth so people can relate. Toward the end when he pretty much became a god, blood is just no longer necessary.

Luke isn't a god either, so don't even think about arguing that point. He's just the little Jedi that could, and well did, but nothing more. The recent novels that told about Luke's accomplishments mean everything to SW fanboys such as yourself, yet mean nothing to casual SW fans such as myself. Anything depicted in the films is what we're all talking about. the thread starter recently went on to give Luke all these powers just to stand up to Neo, and it's based off of sheer bs.

So if I become a semi-famous novelist, and get the greenlight to branch out the Matrix storyline in my own fanboyish ways, I'd make Neo into what, even more of a god than he already is? But then that would be just my hype given to him, not actual storyline.

I never said Luke was a god.

If your story was approved by the powers that be, then you can do whatever you want to Neo. Until then, Neo is a MAN.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Thing is that I DO get it, and I have provided more than enough proof to back up my argument, you always say I dont get it when you are backed into a corner.

But thats what you do, innit?

This is the part where you call me an idiot.

You haven't backed me into a corner, the fact is, you simply do not understand, and you prove you do not understand in the way you present your argument.

Unless you feel we're all backed into a corner.

It's ok, you don't get it, lots of people don't get it. Why are you ashamed? I'm not using it in a derogatory sense, it's literally what it means. You do not understand the rules and concepts of the Matrix, it's not a diss, it's a fact.

You PMed me asking that I explain the Transformers storyline to you, and you expect me to believe you grasp the ins and outs of the Matrix after proving you do not?

-AC

Originally posted by Scythe
I never said you changed it, AC did. learn to read...

I'm sorry, did you just try to own me with a SW reference? Hahaha, I'm not even touching that one.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You haven't backed me into a corner, the fact is, you simply do not understand, and you prove you do not understand in the way you present your argument.

Unless you feel we're all backed into a corner.

It's ok, you don't get it, lots of people don't get it. Why are you ashamed?

-AC

Next question.

Originally posted by Robtard
Which part of "freely manipulate reality" (aka do WHATEVER he wills) can't you understand?

Hey RJ, mind answering the above? I seriously want to get through to you, call me sick.

In simpler terms:

Luke has some serious kick ass abilities, precog, force push, force hold, super speed etc. etc. etc.

Neo has the ability to do anything he wills. "Freely manipulate reality."

How can you compare the two when Neo's could/would include any thing Luke can do?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
One presents their case, back it up with facts, thats how it works. I have done both.

Next question.

And they still don't matter, because when I do the same, it cancels out and beats your argument. Continual posting and ignorance changes this none.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Neo bleeding was to show that he is HUMAN...its what we call SYMBOLISM.

I never said Luke was a god.

If your story was approved by the powers that be, then you can do whatever you want to Neo. Until then, Neo is a MAN.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
droids, puppets, monkeys........shall I go on?

Originally posted by Robtard
Hey RJ, mind answering the above? I seriously want to get through to you, call me sick.

In simpler terms:

Luke has some serious kick ass abilities, precog, force push, force hold, super speed etc. etc. etc.

Neo has the ability to do anything he wills. "Freely manipulate reality."

How can you compare the two when Neo's could/would include any thing Luke can do?

People have gone on and on how Neo can use his matrix powers to combat Lukes force powers. Have you ever considered it works the other way too?

Luke can, in fact, make Neo see whatever Luke wishes. He can impress certain thoughts and visions in Neos mind, and, since ALL of Lukes powers work on Neo, yes, this is a powerful weapon for Luke to use.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And they still don't matter, because when I do the same, it cancels out and beats your argument. Continual posting and ignorance changes this none.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You have done nothing more than post your opinion.

My opinion on what way the fight would go based on the FACTS that Neo's powers would be greater.

You're exaggerating Luke's power and giving him dominion where he has absolutely none.

Mine are facts supporting fact, yours are facts being used to give the man abilities he doesn't have.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
"Reality" in Neos case is anything of this Earth. Luke is NOT of this Earth.

People have gone on and on how Neo can use his matrix powers to combat Lukes force powers. Have you ever considered it works the other way too?

Luke can, in fact, make Neo see whatever Luke wishes. He can impress certain thoughts and visions in Neos mind, and, since ALL of Lukes powers work on Neo, yes, this is a powerful weapon for Luke to use.

How is Luke going to somehow manipulate Neo in a reality that Neo controls unquestionably without equal?

It doesn't matter where Luke is from. If he's in the Matrix, he's Neo's. It's really that simple.

Neo's "mind" is not a human mind, it's a program, it's code, it wouldn't be under Luke's control.

You don't know about this stuff, man. Just admit it.

Neo creates a city full of Neo clones, there. What does Luke do then? Could Luke fight and beat a city full of Neos?

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Neo bleeding was to show that he is HUMAN...its what we call SYMBOLISM.

I never said Luke was a god.

If your story was approved by the powers that be, then you can do whatever you want to Neo. Until then, Neo is a MAN.

With Luke projecting many images of himself, and making Neo's heart burst with a thought, sounds like you're kinda god-modding Luke alot. I understand that you're basing all this on a Luke that was talked about in an official, licensed by LucasArts or whatever publishing company unfortunetly craps them out, novel that has nothing to do with actual storyline canon. I feel like I'm repeating everything AC is saying cuz you just don't understand.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
droids, puppets, monkeys........shall I go on?

Ahaha, oh you, but they're your friends!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
"Reality" in Neos case is anything of this Earth. Luke is NOT of this Earth.

People have gone on and on how Neo can use his matrix powers to combat Lukes force powers. Have you ever considered it works the other way too?

Luke can, in fact, make Neo see whatever Luke wishes. He can impress certain thoughts and visions in Neos mind, and, since ALL of Lukes powers work on Neo, yes, this is a powerful weapon for Luke to use.

There you go again gimping Neo and boosting Luke, if they were fighting in some "neutral ground" as you imposed, then it would be Neo's reality as much as Luke's.

You fail to grasp "freely manipulate reality",which of course would include not letting the Force counter anything or even exist if Neo so willed. Get it now?

Main Entry: free·ly
Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-lē\
Function: adverb
Date: before 12th century
: in a free manner: as a: of one's own accord <left home freely> b: with freedom from external control <a freely elected government> c: without restraint or reservation <spent freely on clothes> d: without hindrance <a gate swinging freely> e: not strictly following a model, convention, or rule <freely translated>

Get it now?

As if Luke is going to stroll into the Matrix and say:

"Right, let's rearrange this, while fighting a man who is a god of this system.".

It's dumb. It factually wouldn't happen because it COULDN'T happen.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

It's dumb. It factually wouldn't happen because it COULDN'T happen.

-AC

I think the premise was that they're both fighting in some neutral area where all of Neo's powers work at their fullest and all of Luke's powers work at their fullest.

Which is a silly fight, since Neo's powers equate to "I will, it happens" with zero limitations.

You can't even have "equality" with Neo, why can't RJ understand this?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How is Luke going to somehow manipulate Neo in a reality that Neo controls unquestionably without equal?

It doesn't matter where Luke is from. If he's in the Matrix, he's Neo's. It's really that simple.

Neo's "mind" is not a human mind, it's a program, it's code, it wouldn't be under Luke's control.

You don't know about this stuff, man. Just admit it.

Neo creates a city full of Neo clones, there. What does Luke do then?

-AC

And Luke could just as easily battle several Neos as he could one Neo, read on.

Luke's abilities with a lightsaber and the Force allow him to prevail over thousands of Yuuzhan Vong warriors, along with other enemies. Luke defeated Supreme Overlord Shimrra Jamaane, who on his own could kill many Jedi.
After defeating hundreds of Yuuzhan Vong warriors Luke defeated more than five Slayers; while Kyp Durron, one of the most powerful Jedi of his time, could not best even one Slayer.
Luke mows through the elite guard of the Supreme Overload to reach him. Later Luke thought that he could have gone even further by drawing power from the Force. Jacen and Jaina, by this time the elites of the Jedi Knights, could not track Luke.

Battle Meditation - This power can influence the course of an entire battle, raising the morale of allies, and sapping the will to fight from enemies.

Force Aura - This power temporarily strengthens a Jedi's defense and ability to resist most forms of attack, be they physical, energy, or Force related, lessening the damage if any. Increasing expertise strengthens the effect, until the Force shields the user in a protective armor so powerful that very few things can penetrate it.

Protection - A power generally only achieved by high-ranking Jedi masters, Force protection will make the bearer invulnerable to a wide range of physical weapons, energy weapons, and Force powers. The ultimate in terms of defense.

Force Blinding is a light side Force power. It emanates what appears as a blinding flash of energy, overloading the target's vision and causing temporary blindness. A powerful tool of the light side, a Jedi can obfuscate an opponent's sight, making it difficult for the adversary to spot and attack the Jedi

Illusion - The ability to make animated apparitions not limited to the image of the wielder. Yarael Poof casts illusory forms to elude a direct contest. This power has been used by the Sith Naga Sadow. Luke Skywalker has used this ability in making false "Jade Shadows" during the Swarm War. Corran Horn is also skilled in this ability, once having used it to force his enemy Leonia Tavira to see the Super Star Destroyer Lusankya instead of the much smaller and largely combat-unready Errant Venture in the novel I, Jedi. When Skywalker used it, his body took temporary damage, but to almost anyone it would have appeared, rather than Horn's illusion, which only Tavira saw.

Mind Control - A more advanced, and more malicious, form of "Persuasion/Suggestion", allowing one to enter another's mind and control brain activity. Darth Sidious seems to have perfected this ability to an extent not before seen, as did the clone of Master Jorus C'baoth.

And these are just a few of the powers at Lukes disposal.

But hey, we all know you will ignore D Guys conditions and say that these wont work on Neo.

By RJ's rationale, he could beat Galactus.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So Luke cant manipulate Neos mind? That goes against the thread starters conditions, where all of Lukes powers work on him.

And Luke could just as easily battle several Neos as he could one Neo, read on.

Luke's abilities with a lightsaber and the Force allow him to prevail over thousands of Yuuzhan Vong warriors, along with other enemies. Luke defeated Supreme Overlord Shimrra Jamaane, who on his own could kill many Jedi.
After defeating hundreds of Yuuzhan Vong warriors Luke defeated more than five Slayers; while Kyp Durron, one of the most powerful Jedi of his time, could not best even one Slayer.
Luke mows through the elite guard of the Supreme Overload to reach him. Later Luke thought that he could have gone even further by drawing power from the Force. Jacen and Jaina, by this time the elites of the Jedi Knights, could not track Luke.

Battle Meditation - This power can influence the course of an entire battle, raising the morale of allies, and sapping the will to fight from enemies.

Force Aura - This power temporarily strengthens a Jedi's defense and ability to resist most forms of attack, be they physical, energy, or Force related, lessening the damage if any. Increasing expertise strengthens the effect, until the Force shields the user in a protective armor so powerful that very few things can penetrate it.

Protection - A power generally only achieved by high-ranking Jedi masters, Force protection will make the bearer invulnerable to a wide range of physical weapons, energy weapons, and Force powers. The ultimate in terms of defense.

Force Blinding is a light side Force power. It emanates what appears as a blinding flash of energy, overloading the target's vision and causing temporary blindness. A powerful tool of the light side, a Jedi can obfuscate an opponent's sight, making it difficult for the adversary to spot and attack the Jedi

Illusion - The ability to make animated apparitions not limited to the image of the wielder. Yarael Poof casts illusory forms to elude a direct contest. This power has been used by the Sith Naga Sadow. Luke Skywalker has used this ability in making false "Jade Shadows" during the Swarm War. Corran Horn is also skilled in this ability, once having used it to force his enemy Leonia Tavira to see the Super Star Destroyer Lusankya instead of the much smaller and largely combat-unready Errant Venture in the novel I, Jedi. When Skywalker used it, his body took temporary damage, but to almost anyone it would have appeared, rather than Horn's illusion, which only Tavira saw.

Mind Control - A more advanced, and more malicious, form of "Persuasion/Suggestion", allowing one to enter another's mind and control brain activity. Darth Sidious seems to have perfected this ability to an extent not before seen, as did the clone of Master Jorus C'baoth.

And these are just a few of the powers at Lukes disposal.

But hey, we all know you will ignore D Guys conditions and say that these wont work on Neo.

"Freely manipulate reality" can Luke counter that? Name some power that counters or matches "doing anything", go on?

"Manipulating Luke's mind" doesn't even have to go into the equation, he could simply will the force not to exist. Also of note, notice how Neo has to be gimped here with the "can't manipulate his mind" thing. That should tell you something about how powerful Neo is as compared to Luke. See?