"Standard Galactus" vs Kubik

Originally posted by Mr Master

That's not exactly accurate friend.

The 5 CCU's were stolen by the Goddess by the time Galactus operated:

A few pages later Gamora returns from freeing Eternity.
(the operation was depicted on panel in Warlock #9 - 1 week later after IW#5)

The power of the Cubes aren't mentioned once,
and clearly Eternity/Infinity's essence was bonded in catatonia,
not by the Cubes themselves.

Which is inconsequential anyway cause the Cubes were not even in Magus' control anymore.

...........................................................................................................

Eternity was ko'd by CCU, and left bonded in catatonia,
but he was not being held by the power of the CCU's.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality with the duplicate 616 Universe they created:

This is why Magus (with the IG) later said:

"My takeover of your Actuality,

USING my now missing Cosmic Containment Units,
[B]would have taken Hours to Accomplish"

Magus was never intending on killing Galactus though,'he wanted Galactus to live in fact,
for Galactus played a role in his evil plans:

...........................................................................................................

Galactus, imo, is above Cube beings,
but Cosmic Containment Units are far beyond Galactus,
as they are above even Eternity in power. [/B]

Ah but see I will prove that Utrigita and I are correct, with one simple scan!

Publication-wise, warlock and infinity watch may have been released a week after IW#5...but conveniently the editor has provided us with the info box that says Warlock & Infinity Watch#9, where Galactus frees Eternity, takes place between Infinity War #4 (Doom and Kang peep the 5 CCU's) and Infinity War#5 (Magus discovers their theft). So there you have it!

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Ah but see I will prove that Utrigita and I are correct, with one simple scan!

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Publication-wise, warlock and infinity watch may have been released a week after IW#5...but conveniently the editor has provided us with the info box that says Warlock & Infinity Watch#9, where Galactus frees Eternity, takes place between Infinity War #4 (Doom and Kang peep the 5 CCU's) and Infinity War#5 (Magus discovers their theft). So there you have it!

Besides that,

again,
the CCU's were not keeping Eternity catatonic,
the CCU's only ko'd Eternity, he remained ko'd in catatonia.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality
with the duplicate 616 Universe they had created. (as I presented already)

The power required to do that would smite Galactus,
obviously the Cubes were not what Galactus overpowered during the operation,
it was a bond of catatonia,
which doesn't really matter cause the Cubes were stolen by then anyway.

The operation began in issue #5,
in issue #5 we discover the Cubes had been stolen previously:

(page 14 - Infinity War #5)

Mr Master,just asking but are you aware that the Celestials creating man has appeared to have been retconned?

Hey Martian

The latest Thor issue about Odin. They made some mistakes with that issue. Its in Thor...so

Celestials will still kick Odin's ass if he goes up against the 6th Celestial Host

Hey Guy,I believe that Celestials making humans was also retconned in the Latest Eternals mini.

Gaiman's run

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Mr Master,just asking
but are you aware that the Celestials creating man has appeared to have been retconned?

Celestials have been depicted on panel working,
they have historically carried that stamp on their shoulders,
and they are officially confirmed to have manipulated Humanity's existence in bios.

In order for a retcon to have merit,
it has to be depicted on panel with action,
otherwise it's empty hyperbole.

Ay,But I Think Gaiman may have retconned it in the recent Eternals mini.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually Molecule Man is beyond Cube beings as well.

👆

True that.

That's not exactly accurate friend.

The 5 CCU's were stolen by the Goddess by the time Galactus operated:

A few pages later Gamora returns from freeing Eternity.
(the operation was depicted on panel in Warlock #9 - 1 week later after IW#5)

The power of the Cubes aren't mentioned once,
and clearly Eternity/Infinity's essence was bonded in catatonia,
not by the Cubes themselves.

Which is inconsequential anyway cause the Cubes were not even in Magus' control anymore.

...........................................................................................................

Eternity was ko'd by CCU, and left bonded in catatonia,
but he was not being held by the power of the CCU's.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality with the duplicate 616 Universe they created:

This is why Magus (with the IG) later said:

"My takeover of your Actuality,

USING my now missing Cosmic Containment Units,
[B]would have taken Hours to Accomplish"

Magus was never intending on killing Galactus though,'he wanted Galactus to live in fact,
for Galactus played a role in his evil plans:

...........................................................................................................

Galactus, imo, is above Cube beings,
but Cosmic Containment Units are far beyond Galactus,
as they are above even Eternity in power. [/B]

Never the less it was the five cubes that caused Eternity to be knocked out, and imo kept him catatonic els he would have escaped the stasis by himself, and not requiring outside help in order to be seperated from Infinity. And imo master It's a little strange statement that you don't think that the CCU can accomplishe more then one feat of the time, It's imo full possible that the CCU's was still holding Eternity in his Catatonic state with perhaps a minimum of there energy while the rest was being diverted to other tasks, The Goddess stealing them, doesn't imo show that the cubes would no longer use there energy on Eternity.

imo 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not exactly, but there's really no arguing that CCU > Galactus.
So basically there can be no scan that even remotely suggest Galactus > CCU.

They can say that, but On Panel it happened in #05 (Infinity War)
in fact, it began deep in #05, Galactus hadn't even sent Gamora till page 14.

Disagree. You're taking the sequence on absolute terms, meaning chronological events in the comics mirror chronological publication. All throughout Infinity War there were tie-ins that over-lapped with individual issues in the Infinity war limited series. Warlock#10 featured Thanos vs. Thanos in its entirety, ending with true Thanos standing before Magus' door. Yet Thanos doesn't even open the door till page 12 in Infinity War #6....highly unlikely that Thanos stands at the doorstep from the time Warlock 10 ended to page 12 of IW5 (during which time the heroes fight amongst each other, Galactus gathers the heroes to assault Magus' fortress, and Magus uses the IG to imprison all of them).

There's also the fact that the "they" you reference to are in fact one and the same....Starlin wrote Warlock 9 and 10....and there was the same editor for Warlock (craig anderson) as for the Infinity War series.

Magus discovers the cubes stolen, and two pages afterwards we see Gamora expelled from Eternity, lying on the ground. If we really want to be technical, in Warlock 9, going from the exact point in time (i.e., Gamora being expelled) G/Gamora had freed Eternity/Infinity 4 pages prior. But the point is moot....all of warlock 9 is stated to occur between IW4 and IW5, as per Jim Starlin and Craig Anderson.

What happens in IW5 is simply recounting events. Why recounting? If they did not recount events in the limited series proper, and if you did not buy Warlock 9 (stated by Warlock and Infinity Watch/Infinity War writer Jim Starlin to take place between IW4 and IW5), you would never have known that Galactus freed Eternity. It's just that simple. Replicating events in the limited series proper allows readers who missed out on the tie-ins to catch up on the plot. Necessarily, there's chronological over-lap. That's my point, and I in the inclination that my point is correct because it agrees with the writer/creator's intentions of the entire story-arc, regardless of the limitations of publishing.

Besides that,

again,
the CCU's were not keeping Eternity catatonic,
the CCU's only ko'd Eternity, he remained ko'd in catatonia.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality
with the duplicate 616 Universe they had created. (as I presented already)

The power required to do that would smite Galactus,
obviously the Cubes were not what Galactus overpowered during the operation,
it was a bond of catatonia,

Induced by the power of the containment units. In IW#1 G already observed how an external force of incredible power rendered Eternity catatonic. Maintaining wasn't my contention, inducement was my contention. I don't know if containment units need to "maintain" their granted wishes (meaning, grant the wish, then "maintain" the wish so it continues to exist). I don't think they are. My interpretation: Magus wished for Eternity to be catatonic, and units obliged. Therefore Eternity was rendered catatonic by the units' power (perhaps not collective power, but by their power nonetheless).

which doesn't really matter cause the Cubes were stolen by then anyway.

[B]The operation began in issue #5,
in issue #5 we discover the Cubes had been stolen previously:

(page 14 - Infinity War #5) [/B]

Per Jim Starlin, that's simply incorrect friend.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Never the less it was the five cubes that caused Eternity to be knocked out,
and imo kept him catatonic els he would have escaped the stasis by himself,
and not requiring outside help in order to be seperated from Infinity.

Originally posted by Utrigita

And imo master It's a little strange statement
that you don't think that the CCU can accomplishe more then one feat of the time, It's imo full possible that the CCU's was still holding Eternity in his Catatonic state with perhaps a minimum of there energy while the rest was being diverted to other tasks, The Goddess stealing them, doesn't imo show that the cubes would no longer use there energy on Eternity.

imo

In fact, by nature,
the Cubes are initially programmed to serve reality positively.

Aside from that,
it was in Magus' interest that Eternity be freed,
so I doubt he would've bounded Eternity to the point where Galactus couldn't free him.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

No, no one was arguing that. A>B is completely different, from A having complete dominance over B (i.e. there are properties of B that can effect the works of property A)

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Disagree. You're taking the sequence on absolute terms, meaning chronological events in the comics mirror chronological publication. All throughout Infinity War there were tie-ins that over-lapped with individual issues in the Infinity war limited series. Warlock#10 featured Thanos vs. Thanos in its entirety, ending with true Thanos standing before Magus' door. Yet Thanos doesn't even open the door till page 12 in Infinity War #6....highly unlikely that Thanos stands at the doorstep from the time Warlock 10 ended to page 12 of IW5 (during which time the heroes fight amongst each other, Galactus gathers the heroes to assault Magus' fortress, and Magus uses the IG to imprison all of them).

There's also the fact that the "they" you reference to are in fact one and the same....Starlin wrote Warlock 9 and 10....and there was the same editor for Warlock (craig anderson) as for the Infinity War series.

Magus discovers the cubes stolen, and two pages afterwards we see Gamora expelled from Eternity, lying on the ground. If we really want to be technical, in Warlock 9, going from the exact point in time (i.e., Gamora being expelled) G/Gamora had freed Eternity/Infinity 4 pages prior. But the point is moot....all of warlock 9 is stated to occur between IW4 and IW5, as per Jim Starlin and Craig Anderson.

What happens in IW5 is simply recounting events. Why recounting? If they did not recount events in the limited series proper, and if you did not buy Warlock 9 (stated by Warlock and Infinity Watch/Infinity War writer Jim Starlin to take place between IW4 and IW5), you would never have known that Galactus freed Eternity. It's just that simple. Replicating events in the limited series proper allows readers who missed out on the tie-ins to catch up on the plot. Necessarily, there's chronological over-lap. That's my point, and I in the inclination that my point is correct because it agrees with the writer/creator's intentions of the entire story-arc, regardless of the limitations of publishing.

But this post doesn't change this fact:

The operation began in issue #5,
in issue #5 we discover the Cubes had been stolen previously:

(page 14 - Infinity War #5)

.....................................................................

Aside from that,
I'll quickly prove how it was in Magus' interest for Galactus to FREE Eternity,
so even IF they would've been under Magus' control during the operation,
Magus would've surely allowed Galactus to succeed.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Induced by the power of the containment units. In IW#1 G already observed how an external force of incredible power rendered Eternity catatonic. Maintaining wasn't my contention, inducement was my contention. I don't know if containment units need to "maintain" their granted wishes (meaning, grant the wish, then "maintain" the wish so it continues to exist). I don't think they are. My interpretation: Magus wished for Eternity to be catatonic, and units obliged. Therefore Eternity was rendered catatonic by the units' power (perhaps not collective power, but by their power nonetheless).

But like I said, aside from that,
it was Magus' interest for Galactus to FREE Eternity,
so even IF they would've been under Magus' control during the operation,
Magus would've surely allowed Galactus to succeed.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Per Jim Starlin, that's simply incorrect friend.

Jim is not gonna tell me the operation began before IW#5 Page 14,
when On Panel it clearly began in IW#5 page 14.

Anywho,
the reason Jim says the events took place between issue #4 and 5,
is because Galactus and Gamora reached Eternity at the end of issue#4,
but all the action took place in #5.

Here's the On Panel PROOF,

Magus wanted Galactus to free Eternity,
so even if Magus had control of the Cubes during Galactus' rescue mission,
Magus would've seen to it that Galactus succeeded.

............................................................................................................

Galactus and Eternity were only pawns in Magus' plans,
he wanted to keep Eternity KO'd until Galactus played his role in freeing him,
he wanted Galactus to ask Eternity to make the reconstitution of the Gems effective,
because ONLY Eternity's word was able to sway the LT.

It was all part of his plan.
............................................................................................................

Eternity is KO'd .. Magus watches as the LT arrives,
yes, even the LT is part of the Magus' plan:

............................................................................................................

Magus wanted the LT to arrive:

............................................................................................................

After Magus steals the IG from Warlock,
Warlock tells Magus the IG doesn't work,

............................................................................................................

But like I said,
Eternity getting KO'd is only part of Magus's plan,
Magus is counting on Galactus freeing Eternity,
so in desperation they can ignite the IG, (because Galactus thinks Warlock has it)
but in fact, Magus has it:

Again,

Magus was always aware of what Galactus was doing with Gamora,
it was part of his plan:

............................................................................................................

Even the LT played a role in Magus' plans.
he even shielded his presence from the LT with the 5 CCU's,
on top of the fact that the 5 CCUs were merging 616 and its duplicate.

............................................................................................................

continues in the next post ...

Magus is counting on Galactus freeing Eternity,
so in desperation they can ignite the IG,
(because Galactus thinks Warlock has it) to counter the 5 CCUs
but in fact, Magus has the IG:

............................................................................................................

This is why Galactus was the most important piece in Magus' chess game,
Galactus was supposed to free Eternity,
it was in Magus' interest:

He WANTED to KO Eternity,
so Galactus could free Eternity,
so Galactus could ask Eternity to make the IG function with a phrase,
so Magus could become the wielder of the IG:

(On Panel proof)

You guys rock. lots of good information.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
You guys rock. lots of good information.

I agree, lots of good debaters in this thread 🙂 Always good to learn.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Magus never intended for Eternity to stay KO'd anyway,
so one way or another friend,
the Cubes were programmed to let Eternity go,
with or without Galactus.

Something doesn't quiet fit here master, I believe that you earlier said that the cubes was on longer in effect towards eternity duo to the Cubes being stolen by Goddess, so obviously the cubes didn't let Eternity by themselves, Galactus was needed to perform the feat.

Without the Cubes being manipulated by a wielder's wishes,
they have no reason to bound Eternity.[/B]

Yet he remained Catatonic.

In fact, by nature,
the Cubes are initially programmed to serve reality positively.

Aside from that,
it was in Magus' interest that Eternity be freed,
so I doubt he would've bounded Eternity to the point where Galactus couldn't free him. [/B]

I know, but the entire argument isn't based on whether ore not the CCU>Galactus which they does the question if is Galactus can break such a enchanment performed by the CCU, it's no more different then SS breaking free Galactus from holding in the Annihilation which was Galactus own energy used Does that mean that SS>Galactus no.

Taking Kubik

👆

Originally posted by Utrigita

Something doesn't quiet fit here master,
I believe that you earlier said
that the cubes was on longer in effect towards eternity duo to the Cubes being stolen by Goddess,

Then to give your post the benefit off the doubt,
I said,

even if the Cubes were under Magus' control at the time of Galactus' operation,
it did NOT matter,
cause it was in Magus' INTEREST for Galactus to free Eternity,
bacause that was part of the Magus' plan.

So in fact, if the Cubes were holding Eternity in catatonia,
I'm 100% confident,
Magus allowed Galactus to be able to free Eternity from his bonds,
because that WAS Magus' PLAN all along.

(there's NO arguing this)

Surely you couldn't have missed all the On Panel proof I posted above,
the evidence is indisputable.

Originally posted by Utrigita

so obviously the cubes didn't let Eternity by themselves,
Galactus was needed to perform the feat.

If the Magus was controlling the Cubes at the time of the operation,
Galactus was going to be allowed to free Eternity by Magus.

If the Cubes were stolen before the operation,
then the Cubes were of no consequence during the operation,
since Cubes are directed by the wishes of their wielders.
Goddess had no interest in the unconsciousness of Eternity.

So one way or another,
the Cubes were not using their power to restrict Galactus from succeeding.

Bacause 1: Magus' plan was for Galactus to free Eternity.
Because 2: If Goddess had stolen them prior, then the bond would've become null,
as in not sustained by the Cubes.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Yet he remained Catatonic.

Originally posted by Utrigita

I know,
but the entire argument isn't based on whether ore not the CCU>Galactus which they does

Originally posted by Utrigita

the question if is Galactus can break such a enchanment performed by the CCU

Please review the unquestionable On Panel evidence posted above.

Originally posted by Utrigita

it's no more different then SS breaking free Galactus from holding in the Annihilation which was Galactus own energy used Does that mean that SS>Galactus no.