Thor vs Superman

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Really? What happened when he fought Doomsday?

Way back in 1993 when he was weak? Yeah, he's gotten a lot more powerful since his revitalization.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Also, Superman has been tagged before by people slower than him.

That's 'cause he doesn't always use his combat speed in a fight. Just like Thor doesn't use his "one-appearance" powers in every fight he's in.

But both battling at their best, Superman uses his speed to beat Thor.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Saying "speed clinches the deal" is just ignorant.

How exactly is that ignorant considering Thor has a tremendous problem with speed?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doomsday's fists weren't magic. I know he's taken pretty fierce blows, and in terms of pure raw power, he's taken worse than Mjolnir. But Mjolnir is magical and Superman has a weakness to magic. Hence, Mjolnir's effectiveness in damaging Superman is enhanced.

enhanced yes, but not to the point of completely caving in his face... 😬

The panels are clear, she literally sliced his throat open. Just grazing his neck would never stop bloodlusted Superman in his tracks. I do agree that he healed quickly. But initially the full damage was done. And that's the point.

i'm gonna disagree, i dont believe his neck was completely sliced open, and i believe it was a combination of shock and the fact that his neck was cut open that stopped him...

In JLA/Avengers, no real damage was done initially, just a mere bloody lip. What the hell? I know a Mjolnir strike won't kill him in one shot, but if we are to argue consistency, he ought to have suffered a broken and bloody nose, maybe a few missing teeth, swelling over his eye, etc. Then several moments later, his advanced healing kicks in. That would be consistent with 'Sacrifice.' But obviously we see nothing of the sort happening.

i agree...

You ought to end this part with "... and it was crappy writing..." Yes, Superman has taken heavy hits, but as I responded above, this isn't just another heavy hit. This is a heavy hit backed by magic.

so is shazam's, wonder woman's etc... 😬

Superman is tough as hell and would probably take a Mjolnir shot better than Thor himself... if he didn't have a weakness to magic. But he does, and there's no evidence showing that Superman's weakness to magic is ever a factor in measuring how much a Mjolnir strike would hurt him. As it is depicted, it hurts him no more than it would hurt Gladiator... which curiously makes his susceptibility and weakness to magic utterly ignored.

as i said, jla v avengers was pretty much crap writing from what i've seen, im agreeing with you... so can we drop it? 😛

I would argue that Superman could take a few body blows from Mjolnir and still fight. I never argued a Mjolnir strike is a one-shot kill. But a full Mjolnir hammer chucking to the face does more than a mere busted lip when you're weak to magic.

i know, and surprise surprise, i agree with you... 😛

And if you agree that the busted lip is invalid and illogical, then we agree that the fight was clear PIS. Plot-Induced-Stupidity.

again, i agree with you...😉

the bloody lip that is PIS. It's his catching the hammer barehanded that also makes no sense. Would you ever volunteer to catch a swung hammer in your bare hand to stop it? Your hand's bones would be shattered to pieces.

but he isnt us, he's superman... its the classic hero thing, the enemy (to superman, im not neccessarily saying thor is evil or anything), has the hero on the ropes, and is about to bring down that fatal strike, but the hero, summoning his last ounce of strength blocks the blow...

if it was you or me, then yes, our hands would be fubar'd, but this isnt the same thing as superman, or even thor for that matter, they have reserves of strength that we can't even imagine the limits to...

but yeah, a broken finger of two wouldnt have gone amiss...

Spiderman beats Firelord is utter PIS and nobody cites it for debating, because the fight utterly ignores Firelord's herald-level speed and durability. Here, the JLA/Avengers fight is utter PIS and should not be cited for debating, because the fight utterly and singularly ignores Superman's weakness to magic.

I AM ignoring it... 😬

Originally posted by grey fox
Plot Induced Stupidity , or better yet how about we ignore Supermans weakness and character flaws altogether and just rename him God ?

wow, thats a bit ott dont you think?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
So basically most times Supes deals with magic is PIS?

Originally posted by grey fox
No , most times DC overlooks their lead characters weaknesses just to make him come up smelling of roses is what I cal PIS (as well as shitty writing).

thats a cop out answer... superman succeeds alot because he is that good, the same way surfer, or thor, or hal jordan, or juggernaut does... weaknesses arent an off-switch, they weaken their characters gradually over a period of time, kryptonite does, and so does magic... as i said, its not an off switch, at least not from what i've seen... as snoop said...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Magic does hurt Superman. That's a fact. But he fights through it as has been shown multiple times. It's more of a willpower thing. Shazams lightning was f*cking Superman up but his body kept going.

why? because he's just that strong, the same way lots of other characters are...

Originally posted by grey fox
No the storyline kept him going , rarely does a human get hit by multiple blasts of lightening and survive.

as snoop said, he's not human, he's kryptonian, his physiology is different to that of humans...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Emma Frost does... 😊

all too true...

the argument that magic automatically shuts off supermans invulnerability is complete BS imo, especially considering the writing of the last few years... yes, magic hurts him, sometimes severely, but its not an off switch...

my apologies for the length of the post... 😮

Originally posted by batdude123
They've never used combat speed against Thor. Norrin doesn't have any decent combat speeds to speak of anyway. At least not against actual meta characters that matter.

Thor's also been mauled a shit load of times by slower speedsters than Superman. Face it... speed is a HUGE factor in this fight.

Hulk has also beaten the shit out of Gladiator as well.

Silver Surfer doesn't have picosecond reaction times. He's weaved in and out of fleets of ships.... hardly anything "picosecond" about it. 😬

That hardly matters when he'd be taken out before he could use those exotic powers of his.

And Thor has swung his hammer at faster than lightspeeds, can travel at faster than light speeds fought people that can go way faster than lightspeed.

As for Thor being hit by people slower than Superman their called low showings my friend. Even Superman has them anyone remember him being KOed by an exploding Gas station. So by that showing any lighting bolt Thor throws out should KO Superman in one blow right 😉 So therefore Thor launching a Huge area wide lighting Storm would defeat Superman 10/10

Glads was getting beatin on because of a PIS ridden story where Hulk managed to have Glads radiation weakness as well.

As for them not using Superspeed in a fight that is ludicrious seeing as if they are figthing then obviously they are gonna be using there great speed for the advantage heck in their fight that was what was shown between Glads and Thor.

Now I agree Superman is afaster but he is nothing Thor hasn't seen before in fact Thor has seen faster in fights and while Superman may get the first punch he isn't KOing Thor who has stood within side a sun before or been hit by a celestial before. So Thor while have time to use his vast magical powers to deal with Superman in any way he wants.

Whether that be BFR into another Deminsion
Transmuting him into Helium Gas
Simply blasting him with so much magical power he goes down in a long drawn out battle take your pick.

I cannot believe this is still running.
Fluctuations in both characters abilities must not be taken always as statement of their rankings.
It's well known what they are capable of, except for hyperbole of writers like holding black holes in a hand.
Thor's durability is up there with Supes.
Superman's speed is not a valid point to say he outmatches Thor.
Check the respect thread.Thor has god like reflexes, not simply of superhuman ranking.Being portrayed having troubles with less powerful beings doesn't means he's that crap.Supes was smacked down from Venom once.Did someone took that seriously?
The fight goes to the Asgardian prince, after a tough as hell battle, but Mjolnir is the wildcard here, and Thor got a "bit" of experience using it, not to mention, the vast array of abilities to unleash.

Originally posted by batdude123
How exactly is that ignorant considering Thor has a tremendous problem with speed?

Look at when he handled the Infinity Watch, and the Silver Surfer. Heck, any time he fights a herald speed doesn't mean much.

Also, in the Mongoose instance your going to bring up, Thor simply spun around and knocked him away like a fly.

This is for Batdude...

You claim that Superman has the speed advantage, and your right when referring to flying speed. When it comes to reflexes and fighting speed Thor has actually been clocked as "swinging" faster than Superman. I've seen the "speedblitz" scans, and none of them show Superman going faster or even near light speed. However on the other hand Thor has been clocked swinging Mjolnir at multiples of light speed. Meaning that in all actuality Thor's combat speed is faster than Superman's, and that the speed advantage is Thor's. 😬

Originally posted by Soujaboy
This is for Batdude...

You claim that Superman has the speed advantage, and your right when referring to flying speed. When it comes to reflexes and fighting speed Thor has actually been clocked as "swinging" faster than Superman. I've seen the "speedblitz" scans, and none of them show Superman going faster or even near light speed. However on the other hand Thor has been clocked swinging Mjolnir at multiples of light speed. Meaning that in all actuality Thor's combat speed is faster than Superman's, and that the speed advantage is Thor's. 😬

The only problem is that it can be argued that Superman can reach higher speeds because he's traveled faster than light. 🙁 Only problem is that CBR rules can bring up a lot of speculation.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
This is for Batdude...

You claim that Superman has the speed advantage, and your right when referring to flying speed. When it comes to reflexes and fighting speed Thor has actually been clocked as "swinging" faster than Superman. I've seen the "speedblitz" scans, and none of them show Superman going faster or even near light speed. However on the other hand Thor has been clocked swinging Mjolnir at multiples of light speed. Meaning that in all actuality Thor's combat speed is faster than Superman's, and that the speed advantage is Thor's. 😬

throwing speed or swinging speed is completely useless

If I give you a gun, technically you can launch the bullet at supersonic speed. But does that mean you can actually hit something moving at a faster speed than your eyes can distinguish? NO.

Also, a baseball player can swing his bat at over 100mph. Does that mean he's faster than Bruce Lee in a fight just because his swing is faster? NO.

Thor can swing the hammer as fast as he wants, but he can't hit what he can't see, and Superman at speedbltiz is just a mere blur.

Originally posted by masterbruce
throwing speed or swinging speed is completely useless

If I give you a gun, technically you can launch the bullet at supersonic speed. But does that mean you can actually hit something moving at a faster speed than your eyes can distinguish? NO.

Also, a baseball player can swing his bat at over 100mph. Does that mean he's faster than Bruce Lee in a fight just because his swing is faster? NO.

Thor can swing the hammer as fast as he wants, but he can't hit what he can't see, and Superman at speedbltiz is just a mere blur.

Those are decent examples, but Mjolnir is an extremely short hammer. It might as well be his fist speed.

Originally posted by masterbruce
throwing speed or swinging speed is completely useless

If I give you a gun, technically you can launch the bullet at supersonic speed. But does that mean you can actually hit something moving at a faster speed than your eyes can distinguish? NO.

Also, a baseball player can swing his bat at over 100mph. Does that mean he's faster than Bruce Lee in a fight just because his swing is faster? NO.

Thor can swing the hammer as fast as he wants, but he can't hit what he can't see, and Superman at speedbltiz is just a mere blur.

So now fighting speed is useless? 🙄

Now Thor can't see Superman? 🙄

Where did you get that a baseball player could swing his bat at 100 mph 😆 Most people can swing their fist faster than they can swing other objects such as bats, hammers, knives etc.

Thor has never had trouble seeing Hermes, Thalif, Surfer, etc, so why do you assume he won't be able to see Superman? and considering Superman has never shown the ability to blitz at ftl speeds, I find it safe to assume Thor will easily deal with the blitz.

Thor has shown the ability to swing at ftl speeds, Superman has not shown the ability to swing or for that matter blitz at ftl speeds.

Forgive me for being obtuse but I don't reallt get how swinging Mjolnir really fast equates to what would normally be considered fighting speed. 😬

Being able to move a weapon at high speed is not necessarily an indication of being able to move a bodypart as fast. Typical human reflex speed is about 20mph, but a person can snap the tip of a whip faster than sound (that's the sharp "crack" you hear), or more than 760mph.

We all have seen, from countless issues through the decades, those famous multiple-image pics showing Superman punching / building something / doing whatever at superspeed. I can't recall one of Thor doing same (a scan would help, if anyone has one). Even if Thor can execute one or two actions at such speed, I believe it could still be argued that he can't keep up that speed as long as Supes can (based on there being either none of those multiple-image pics of Thor, or certainly far less than Superman has).

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Forgive me for being obtuse but I don't reallt get how swinging Mjolnir really fast equates to what would normally be considered fighting speed. 😬

Because if he's swinging the hammer faster than Superman can blitz than it gives Thor the advantage.

Now most people can swing their fist faster than they can swing in hand objects. For example take a hammer and try to swing in a three move combo. Now take your fist and do the same. Now tell me which is faster and more efficient.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Forgive me for being obtuse but I don't reallt get how swinging Mjolnir really fast equates to what would normally be considered fighting speed. 😬

By the way with a whip the end is moving so fast because it is the tip is gaining extra from the whips snaking body. Try swinging a bat or evne a knife and you'll notice it won't go nearly as fast.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Because if he's swinging the hammer faster than Superman can blitz than it gives Thor the advantage.

Now most people can swing their fist faster than they can swing in hand objects. For example take a hammer and try to swing in a three move combo. Now take your fist and do the same. Now tell me which is faster and more efficient.

It stands to reason that the enchanted object that can be thrown at lightspeed can be swung at lightspeed. I don't really see how that implies Thor could do the macarena at lightspeed.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
So now fighting speed is useless? 🙄

Now Thor can't see Superman? 🙄

Where did you get that a baseball player could swing his bat at 100 mph 😆 Most people can swing their fist faster than they can swing other objects such as bats, hammers, knives etc.

Thor has never had trouble seeing Hermes, Thalif, Surfer, etc, so why do you assume he won't be able to see Superman? and considering Superman has never shown the ability to blitz at ftl speeds, I find it safe to assume Thor will easily deal with the blitz.

Thor has shown the ability to swing at ftl speeds, Superman has not shown the ability to swing or for that matter blitz at ftl speeds.

So was Surfer and Hermes and all those guys traveling at lightspeed when they were interacting with Thor?

I could see Flash if he was standing still, doesn't mean I'm super fast.

So if you think because Thor could swing a weapon superfast that he can fight superspeed people.

If I give you a gun, that means you can shoot the bullet at supersonic speed. Do you think you can hit quicksilver just because the bullet is fast??? NO, because you will never even see quicksilver so its useless how fast the weapon is if you can't see your enemy.

If Thor can see someone moving at light speed, then you may have a point.

Originally posted by Mindship
Being able to move a weapon at high speed is not necessarily an indication of being able to move a bodypart as fast. Typical human reflex speed is about 20mph, but a person can snap the tip of a whip faster than sound (that's the sharp "crack" you hear), or more than 760mph.

We all have seen, from countless issues through the decades, those famous multiple-image pics showing Superman punching / building something / doing whatever at superspeed. I can't recall one of Thor doing same (a scan would help, if anyone has one). Even if Thor can execute one or two actions at such speed, I believe it could still be argued that he can't keep up that speed as long as Supes can (based on there being either none of those multiple-image pics of Thor, or certainly far less than Superman has).

Of course you can crack a whip faster than you can can swing your fist. However I doubt you can swing a hammer faster than you can swing your fist.

The fact still remains that while Thor has shown to be able to swing Mjolnir at multiples of the speed of light, Superman has been shown to swing his fist at the same speed.

Swinging a bat or knife is not the same as Thor swinging a hammer because...
1. Mjolner weighs far less in proportion to Thor's strength than a bat or knife weighs in comparison to human strength. But mostly...
2. Thor can swing Mjolner thanks to the strap at the end. Attach a strap to the end of a bat and watch how much faster you can move it. Heck, for that matter, just swing some nunchucks.

Regardless, if Thor uses his hammer's full potential, he wins.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Of course you can crack a whip faster than you can can swing your fist. However I doubt you can swing a hammer faster than you can swing your fist.

The fact still remains that while Thor has shown to be able to swing Mjolnir at multiples of the speed of light, Superman has been shown to swing his fist at the same speed.

so If I give you a gun, you could hit something moving at supersonic speed?

NO. because even if your attack is fast, it's useless if you can't see the target fast enough.

Originally posted by masterbruce
so If I give you a gun, you could hit something moving at supersonic speed?

NO. because even if your attack is fast, it's useless if you can't see the target fast enough.