Thor vs Superman

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
............After seeing Superman build a metropolis-sized city in seconds, you still think Thor can keep up with him? Or that Superman can't pull a lightspeed blitz or an FTL blitz? 🤨

This entire arguement is idiotic. Thor has never faced an opponent who used that level of speed. Even Surfer doesn't use that level against Thor, and his battle speed isn't on the same level as Superman's.

You're the ones who have no leg to stand on. Read the stupid respect thread. He's got the feats to fight at that level of speed. It's your boy who lacks the speed feats to compete.

Thor doesn't have any speedblitzes. True. Not even on the clearly supersonic ones that Superman regularly employs. But he does have FTL reflexes. And I am continually amazed at how you refuse to believe that ON-PANEL FTL reflexes cannot deal with imaginary FTL speedblitzes.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I agree 100% with this at least. h1a8, you are entitled to your opinion. But I personal believe your idea of speed is very narrow. When Thor regularly reacts to and has deflected light speed attacks by moving his arms at FTL speeds, or spun Mjolnir itself at FTL speeds and regularly propels himself along at FTL speeds, I don't see why you have such a hard time believing Thor could deal with a speedblitz.

Concurrent with this, nobody has even shown Superman speedblitzing at FTL speeds. We've seen his FTL travel speeds, but everyone and their grandma understands that travel speed does not equate to battle speed. Especially you Superman fans. Otherwise you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in Silver Surfer or Thor vs. debates. The scans that have been posted and referenced do not show any speedblitz at FTL speeds. I would even trust Superman's own words or thoughts. If he said, "I am maneuvering and hitting him at FTL speeds." I would accept this. And the constant arguments would have more substance. But nothing.

Nonetheless, because I know that you and many others continually believe this to be true absent any actual on-panel evidence, I don't see why you all have such a hard time accepting that the best defense against light speed or FTL speed attacks would be FTL battle reflexes. And classic Thor has demonstrated this on-panel.

It takes significant time for Thor to swing the hammer FTL. He can't do this instanteously. The comic explained that he must build the speed up to that point. Thor also can't fly FTL instaneously, it takes him significant time to do this as well. And Thor never reacted to a light speed attack.

I have posted a scan that shows an enemy reacting to and easily blocking Superman's HV from close range. But Superman suddenly blitzed him and the dude couldn't even react. I took that to mean that
Superman is faster than his HV. But why can you guys infer feats and we can't. Superman has performed many complex tasks FTL. If you substitute those individual tasks for a punch then you can clearly see that Superman can blitz FTL.

Also look at my above post saying if Superman zips behind Thor.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Umm. Where does it state that he rebuilt the city in seconds? And I've read his respect thread up and down. There is not a single speedblitz that is concurrent with a description or clear evidence that he is going at FTL speeds. Your continued appeal to my so-called ignorance of Superman is quite amusing. The fact is, you Superman fans would love nothing better then to post a scan to absolutely and utterly refute my arguments. But guess what? You haven't! Not even once! How ironic that you actually don't even have a single scan of even Superman saying, "I am manuevering at FTL speeds." or "I can punch at FTL speeds." It must make you so mad that your only hope at posturing and acting as if you're winning in this debate is to appeal to some non-existent scan in a respect thread that I have frequented several times and continue to frequent.

Thor doesn't have any speedblitzes. True. Not even on the clearly supersonic ones that Superman regularly employs. But he does have FTL reflexes. And I am continually amazed at how you refuse to believe that ON-PANEL FTL reflexes cannot deal with imaginary FTL speedblitzes.

And
Look here man and tell me what you think.

Originally posted by h1a8
It takes significant time for Thor to swing the hammer FTL. He can't do this instanteously. The comic explained that he must build the speed up to that point. Thor also can't fly FTL instaneously, it takes him significant time to do this as well. And Thor never reacted to a light speed attack.

I have posted a scan that shows an enemy reacting to and easily blocking Superman's HV from close range. But Superman suddenly blitzed him and the dude couldn't even react. I took that to mean that
Superman is faster than his HV. But why can you guys infer feats and we can't. Superman has performed many complex tasks FTL. If you substitute those individual tasks for a punch then you can clearly see that Superman can blitz FTL.

Also look at my above post saying if Superman zips behind Thor.

And I have seen that scan you posted. I also remember someone arguing that Thor was only able to block light speed attacks because his opponent was directly in front of him and blasting away and therefore it is not really indicative of FTL battle reflexes. Now despite the fact that we've shown Thor's arms moving AFTER a light speed shot has been initiated and successfully deflecting it, I can see the merit of such an argument. But guess what? That's the same thing that's happening in the scan you have pointed out. Superman's foe is blocking HV shot right in front of him. Taking this argument means that this doesn't necessarily prove that he has FTL reflexes. Therefore, Superman's speedblitz is not necessarily FTL in order to overcome his reflexes. The speedblitz may merely be supersonic in nature.

Look, if you want me to infer that because his opponent was distracted by HV and Superman was able to punch him AND that = Superman's FTL battle speed...

... I can do that. But guess what? Silver Surfer and Gladiator have ON-PANEL references to their nanosecond FTL battle speeds. And Thor has punched them. For me to take your simple standard to infer Superman's FTL battle speed, I would necessarily have to infer that Thor must have been using FTL battle speeds to punch Surfer and Gladiator. Do you want me to do that? Because that is exactly the standard that you are employing.

I don't mind adopting your inferences as long as you adopt them fully and without any double-standard. I especially don't mind doing it when it essentially means you've argued yourself into a hole. You think about that. I'll check back later for your response. Peace.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Avlon and his kin have basically argued that Superman can beat anybody if they haven't displayed an ability to speedblitz at ftl speeds themselves. That is the standard they are compelled to believe in. Despite classic Thor's ability to deal with light speed attacks with his reflexes over and over and over again. Despite the fact that they still haven't shown Superman actually blitzing at FTL speeds on-panel. Apparently, if a character cannot FTL speedblitz himself, he loses to a fictional FTL speedblitz from Superman. That's the argument anyway. And it fails on many levels.

With that pitiful basis of an argument, Superman could beat Mephisto, Thanos, Odin, Rune King Thor, classic Molecule Man and classic Beyonder before any of them could do anything.

🤣

Where have I claimed anything in this thread about Superman and FTL blitzing?
If you are going to try and be a smartass...at least get your facts straight. 🙂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Look, I got to go study for my Sec Reg class now, so I'll respond to this real quick. Which comic are you referring to where Thor must build up the speeds to spin Mjolnir at FTL speeds? I honestly am not aware of what you are referring to. And Thor has indeed reacted to many light speed attacks. Darth and I have continually posted scans to this effect. Telepathic blasts, heat vision, Surfer cosmic blasts.

And I have seen that scan you posted. I also remember someone arguing that Thor was only able to block light speed attacks because his opponent was directly in front of him and blasting away and therefore it is not really indicative of FTL battle reflexes. Now despite the fact that we've shown Thor's arms moving AFTER a light speed shot has been initiated and successfully deflecting it, I can see the merit of such an argument. But guess what? That's the same thing that's happening in the scan you have pointed out. Superman's foe is blocking HV shot right in front of him. Taking this argument means that this doesn't necessarily prove that he has FTL reflexes. Therefore, Superman's speedblitz is not necessarily FTL in order to overcome his reflexes. The speedblitz may merely be supersonic in nature.

Look, if you want me to infer that because his opponent was distracted by HV and Superman was able to punch him AND that = Superman's FTL battle speed...

... I can do that. But guess what? Silver Surfer and Gladiator have ON-PANEL references to their nanosecond FTL battle speeds. And Thor has punched them. For me to take your simple standard to infer Superman's FTL battle speed, I would necessarily have to infer that Thor must have been using FTL battle speeds to punch Surfer and Gladiator. Do you want me to do that? Because that is exactly the standard that you are employing.

I don't mind adopting your inferences as long as you adopt them fully and without any double-standard. I especially don't mind doing it when it essentially means you've argued yourself into a hole. You think about that. I'll check back later for your response. Peace.

YUP YUP 👆

Where can we talk about classic Thor Vs Superman?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Look, I got to go study for my Sec Reg class now, so I'll respond to this real quick. Which comic are you referring to where Thor must build up the speeds to spin Mjolnir at FTL speeds? I honestly am not aware of what you are referring to. And Thor has indeed reacted to many light speed attacks. Darth and I have continually posted scans to this effect. Telepathic blasts, heat vision, Surfer cosmic blasts.

The telepathic blast looks like slow moving fire. So its speculation that it is light speed or faster.
Also, the telepathic blast was telegraphed by a slow arm motion to point at Thor. If someone is moving their arms to point and shoot at you then you can easily get you arm up to block. Hell, martial artists can block a punch that isn't telegraphed. What heat vision are you referring too? Any scans? And SS bolts looked like lightning in that scan. Pure speculation that those bolts were light speed.

And I have seen that scan you posted. I also remember someone arguing that Thor was only able to block light speed attacks because his opponent was directly in front of him and blasting away and therefore it is not really indicative of FTL battle reflexes. Now despite the fact that we've shown Thor's arms moving AFTER a light speed shot has been initiated and successfully deflecting it, I can see the merit of such an argument. But guess what? That's the same thing that's happening in the scan you have pointed out. Superman's foe is blocking HV shot right in front of him. Taking this argument means that this doesn't necessarily prove that he has FTL reflexes. Therefore, Superman's speedblitz is not necessarily FTL in order to overcome his reflexes. The speedblitz may merely be supersonic in nature.

Look, if you want me to infer that because his opponent was distracted by HV and Superman was able to punch him AND that = Superman's FTL battle speed...

... I can do that. But guess what? Silver Surfer and Gladiator have ON-PANEL references to their nanosecond FTL battle speeds. And Thor has punched them. For me to take your simple standard to infer Superman's FTL battle speed, I would necessarily have to infer that Thor must have been using FTL battle speeds to punch Surfer and Gladiator. Do you want me to do that? Because that is exactly the standard that you are employing.

Also,
Time doesn't equal speed. I'm tired of people saying 'nanosecond' to refer to moving FTL.

I don't mind adopting your inferences as long as you adopt them fully and without any double-standard. I especially don't mind doing it when it essentially means you've argued yourself into a hole. You think about that. I'll check back later for your response. Peace.

I give up credit though. You are really challenging me. Okay, lets get to the nitty gritty and stop the needless speculation.

1. Can Thor turn his body around at the same speed that Superman can zip behind him with? If you say yes then we will discuss the details of that and if you say no then we can stop here as this proves Superman would win. Do you see how?

2. Can Thor deal with two attacks coming at him at the same time (and at least one of them is lightspeed)? If yes then explain how? For example, Superman shooting him with HV at the same time punching with both hands.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'll try to find them. But Thor specifically says that he must build up enough speed to swing his hammer FTL. The panel is showing him doing this while he's saying it.

The telepathic blast looks like slow moving fire. So its speculation that it is light speed or faster.
Also, the telepathic blast was telegraphed by a slow arm motion to point at Thor. If someone is moving their arms to point and shoot at you then you can easily get you arm up to block. Hell, martial artists can block a punch that isn't telegraphed. What heat vision are you referring too? Any scans? And SS bolts looked like lightning in that scan. Pure speculation that those bolts were light speed.
Thor's arm moving several inches after a light speed attack has nothing to do with his ability to turn around when someone zips behind him. Thor can't even run at supersonic speeds.
OHOTMU lists him at 115mph tops. And since the comics hasn't contradicted this stat then it is valid. Plus I haven't seen good proof that Thor can legitimately respond to a light speed attack (like a laser). If there were something else I can infer from then I probably will, just show me. I'm like you, I will even accept if he or the narrator says the speed is light speed.
Maybe. But that would mean that Superman can launch simultaneous attacks at the same time (redundant I know). This is an added plus for Superman. But many here say that if one can instantly travel at light speed then certainly they can blitz at light speed. Do you agree? If yes then do you think Superman can blitz at light speed? If no, then can you explain how one can instant travel at light speed while multiple punching but can't blitz at light speed.
Understood. But PIS is apart of comics. Never forget that. Just because it happened doesn't mean it will happen in a forum fight. But neither SS nor Gladiator has shown the ability to both react and deal with light speed attacks. Speed and reflexes are two different things. You need both. Hell, I don't think that either SS or Gladiator has been shown to have nanosecond reflexes (what does that mean anyway?). SS's scan saying that if he stayed in there a nanosecond longer.... doesn't prove that he can both react and deal with a light speed attack. I also take that scan as him speaking figuratively and not literally. And I'm fairly sure that Gladiator's feat is in an alternate universe or something. But let's not argue here anyway. Let's just say I'm wrong here since this isn't even what my argument is about.

Also,
Time doesn't equal speed. I'm tired of people saying 'nanosecond' to refer to moving FTL.

I give up credit though. You are really challenging me. Okay, lets get to the nitty gritty and stop the needless speculation.

1. Can Thor turn his body around at the same speed that Superman can zip behind him with? If you say yes then we will discuss the details of that and if you say no then we can stop here as this proves Superman would win. Do you see how?

2. Can Thor deal with two attacks coming at him at the same time (and at least one of them is lightspeed)? If yes then explain how? For example, Superman shooting him with HV at the same time punching with both hands.

I don't want to jump in and break up your brilliant defense of Superman beating Odinforce Thor, (which is impossible) but in the past Thor has turned himself into an impentrable vortex like tornado, which without PIS would cut Superman to ribbons (which solves the zipping behind the back sucker punch).

Thor has sealed a force capable of destryoing a universe within said vortex in the past, and now he has he fathers magic? It was stated earlier that Thor needed time to build up speed and such, well this would be the perfect example of him having more than enough time to build up speed, power, strength amping, even enough time to evoke a spell to increase his size. Superman is rather one dimensional when compared to a Skyfather.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
I don't want to jump in and break up your brilliant defense of Superman beating Odinforce Thor, (which is impossible) but in the past Thor has turned himself into an impentrable vortex like tornado, which without PIS would cut Superman to ribbons (which solves the zipping behind the back sucker punch).

Thor has sealed a force capable of destryoing a universe within said vortex in the past, and now he has he fathers magic? It was stated earlier that Thor needed time to build up speed and such, well this would be the perfect example of him having more than enough time to build up speed, power, strength amping, even enough time to evoke a spell to increase his size. Superman is rather one dimensional when compared to a Skyfather.

Nice try but Thor wouldn't get a chance to do any of this as he will be either busy defending against Superman's attacks or getting hit.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Umm. Where does it state that he rebuilt the city in seconds?

It's really not that difficult to see...

The second panel says... "Oh no! What him am do to metropolis?" as Superman flies to the broken city. Then he completely rebuilds it in the span of "IT AM AWFUL!" in the 3rd panel.

Geez, I can't believe people are getting so desperate as to try and discredit something so simple and obvious.

Originally posted by Avlon
It's really not that difficult to see...

The second panel says... "Oh no! What him am do to metropolis?" as Superman flies to the broken city. Then he completely rebuilds it in the span of "IT AM AWFUL!" in the 3rd panel.

Geez, I can't believe people are getting so desperate as to try and discredit something so simple and obvious.

Originally posted by h1a8
Nice try but Thor wouldn't get a chance to do any of this as he will be either busy defending against Superman's attacks or getting hit.

Superman would never win more than 1/10 battles against Odinforce Thor, and I give him one victory assuming Thor had no clue as to whom he was faced off against. From the beginning of the battle Thor would be in control of the entire fight, hell he wouldn't even need to get off of his throne to win. There are so many ways... no too many ways for Thor to win this.
Odin once held Kurse in an eldritch bubble of force, Superman would also be held if Thor surrounded him within one. The Odin force also has magics capable of tearing an immortals soul from their bodies, Kal isn't even immortal, how much easier would it be to do this to him?

Originally posted by Avlon
It's really not that difficult to see...

The second panel says... "Oh no! What him am do to metropolis?" as Superman flies to the broken city. Then he completely rebuilds it in the span of "IT AM AWFUL!" in the 3rd panel.

Geez, I can't believe people are getting so desperate as to try and discredit something so simple and obvious.

As for this Superman building the city in seconds, Thor erected Asgard within seconds as well.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
As for this Superman building the city in seconds, Thor erected Asgard within seconds as well.

Not with speed. Please let's not misrepresent things.

Plus, are people really under the assumption that beings with the intelligence and attention spans of rocks stood there and watched him build the city for hours? Hell, I guess it takes one of them hours to say "It am awful" also, am I right?

God dammit, use a little common sense here. Like Avlon said, this is quite simple and obvious.

All these desperate excuses on Thor's behalf are hilarious.

Originally posted by Avlon
Not with speed. Please let's not misrepresent things.

Well as I said before Thor could capture Superman in flight by just surrounding him within a bubble of force. There goes the speed advantage.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Well as I said before Thor could capture Superman in flight by just surrounding him within a bubble of force. There goes the speed advantage.

*whoosh*

That's the sound of logic zooming over your head.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Well as I said before Thor could capture Superman in flight by just surrounding him within a bubble of force. There goes the speed advantage.

Originally posted by Juntai
Oh no, a bubble, Supes is screwed.

Long enough for Thor to destroy his soul... yes you're quite correct.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Long enough for Thor to destroy his soul... yes you're quite correct.