Originally posted by h1a8I look forward to your producing the scans. Because if Thor himself says it, I'll accept it. As for the telepathic blast, I think it takes more speculation to assume it is STL (slower then light). One thing, the captions describe it as an "instantaneous" blast. Another thing, telepathy by its nature usually travels FTL. Otherwise, Martian Manhunter could never communicate with Flash and Xavier could never contact his X-Men when they were in another galaxy.
I'll try to find them. But Thor specifically says that he must build up enough speed to swing his hammer FTL. The panel is showing him doing this while he's saying it.The telepathic blast looks like slow moving fire. So its speculation that it is light speed or faster.
Also, the telepathic blast was telegraphed by a slow arm motion to point at Thor. If someone is moving their arms to point and shoot at you then you can easily get you arm up to block. Hell, martial artists can block a punch that isn't telegraphed. What heat vision are you referring too? Any scans? And SS bolts looked like lightning in that scan. Pure speculation that those bolts were light speed.
Also, the telepathic blast may have been telegraphed. But the FTL battle reflexes I am referring to is the blast being blasted and already travelling at Thor, and Thor then raises his arms to deflect it. He did not already have Mjolnir raised to deflect it before it was fired. Therefore, he had to move his arms into position, at a faster speed then the attack. The heat vision I am referring to is him blocking Gladiator's heat vision. Posted several pages ago.
Originally posted by h1a8Except that he's moving it several feet, not just inches. If you can move your arms at FTL speeds, why law of science prevents you from twisting your body or moving your legs? Most people don't use handbooks as evidence, h1a8. And if you use them, you have to use it all. Otherwise I'd call you out on selective reading and a double-standard. Marvel handbooks also indicate that JLA/Avengers actually happened. I would suggest that you drop handbooks; they are a very slippery slope. Besides, the writers already admit that there are a lot of mistakes and most people don't use them in KMC debates anyway.
Thor's arm moving several inches after a light speed attack has nothing to do with his ability to turn around when someone zips behind him. Thor can't even run at supersonic speeds.
OHOTMU lists him at 115mph tops. And since the comics hasn't contradicted this stat then it is valid. Plus I haven't seen good proof that Thor can legitimately respond to a light speed attack (like a laser). If there were something else I can infer from then I probably will, just show me. I'm like you, I will even accept if he or the narrator says the speed is light speed.
Originally posted by h1a8Look, I can understand why people would infer FTL battle speed and reflexes from instantaneous FTL travelling speed. But I choose not to accept it. And I don't actually remember Superman ever travelling at light speed instantaneously. I know that Flash can do it. But I have seen Superman come short too many times to believe that he can instantaneously achieve FTL speeds. For instance, it takes him a while to achieve light speed when he is trying to escape that black hole. If he could do it instantaneously, why'd it take him so long to achieve it? Besides, if I chose to accept this standard, then Silver Surfer vs. Superman would be a terrible curbstomp for Surfer. Surfer has been clearly depicted as instanteously achieving light speed and you and I would have all the Superman fans up in arms at that point.
Maybe. But that would mean that Superman can launch simultaneous attacks at the same time (redundant I know). This is an added plus for Superman. But many here say that if one can instantly travel at light speed then certainly they can blitz at light speed. Do you agree? If yes then do you think Superman can blitz at light speed? If no, then can you explain how one can instant travel at light speed while multiple punching but can't blitz at light speed.
Originally posted by h1a8Gladiator and Hyperion fought in the 616 universe in a Quasar comic during the storyline 'Starblast.' The captions state that Hyperion returns a punch nanoseconds later after Gladiator rains a blow on him. Gladiator blocks the punch. Gladiator eventually beats Hyperion. It's in the Gladiator respect thread.
Understood. But PIS is apart of comics. Never forget that. Just because it happened doesn't mean it will happen in a forum fight. But neither SS nor Gladiator has shown the ability to both react and deal with light speed attacks. Speed and reflexes are two different things. You need both. Hell, I don't think that either SS or Gladiator has been shown to have nanosecond reflexes (what does that mean anyway?). SS's scan saying that if he stayed in there a nanosecond longer.... doesn't prove that he can both react and deal with a light speed attack. I also take that scan as him speaking figuratively and not literally. And I'm fairly sure that Gladiator's feat is in an alternate universe or something. But let's not argue here anyway. Let's just say I'm wrong here since this isn't even what my argument is about.
Originally posted by h1a8Interesting point. If Surfer flexes his muscles in a nanosecond... how fast is that really? I honestly never gave it much thought. A picosecond is one millionth of a second. A nanosecond is one billionth of a second. After looking it up and with some rough calculations, it takes light a lil more then 1 nanosecond to move 1 foot. So if Surfer flexes arms from behind his back and over his head, that's about 6 feet. If he does that in less then a nanosecond, his arms are moving six times the speed of light. If Hyperion and Gladiator throw a punch the length of the arm, around 3 feet. And that takes a few nanoseconds later... let's say 3 nanoseconds? Then the fist is moving at light speed. It's rough, I know. And tough to measure and quantify what happens in a comic panel. But I guess it's up to the individual to make up for his own mind if nanosecond reaction times are light speed times. I personally think that since light only moves 1 foot in 1 nanosecond, nanoseconds are a good measure of light speed battle reflexes and such.
Also,
Time doesn't equal speed. I'm tired of people saying 'nanosecond' to refer to moving FTL.
Originally posted by h1a81. I think he could. He's raised his arms at FTL speeds. I don't see too much speculation necessary to project that ability to move his arms into his ability to twist his waist around. But apparently he's not clearly twisted his hip around at FTL speeds on-panel. At the least, Gladiator and Hyperion exchange punches and twist their bodies around in nanoseconds...
I give up credit though. You are really challenging me. Okay, lets get to the nitty gritty and stop the needless speculation.1. Can Thor turn his body around at the same speed that Superman can zip behind him with? If you say yes then we will discuss the details of that and if you say no then we can stop here as this proves Superman would win. Do you see how?
2. Can Thor deal with two attacks coming at him at the same time (and at least one of them is lightspeed)? If yes then explain how? For example, Superman shooting him with HV at the same time punching with both hands.
2. Well, he'd block the HV with Mjolnir in one hand and defend against the punches with his other hand. But then again, I'll concede he's not actually done this on-panel. He's actually deflected flying bricks with a Mjolnir swing and left himself open to a Gladiator punch. I suppose he could just actually hit Superman in the face with Mjolnir and bypass defense altogether. Best defense is a good offense?
Good questions.
