Thor vs Superman

Started by CaptainStoic453 pages

Ok can we get back on topic? insults aside... how can Superman without CIS/PIS defeat someone that could strip him of his ability to be called superhuman? Anyone with the Odinforce would/should be leagues above Superman. Is it possible for someone above Odin to defeat Superman?

Yes or No?

thunderclaps are air pressure waves

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's called sarcasm.
Whatchoo talkin bout Trickster?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh going to pick on a typo are we? I mispelled it so obviously I know nothing about it.
I never said you don't know anything about it. I only pointed out that you keep spelling it wrong... several times in fact. So it's a repeated typo. Besides the point.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Actually its the whole "He hasn't shown to speed blitz people, therefore he cant do it" that breaks the pis and full capacity rules.
Umm. I said he hasn't shown the ability to FTL speedblitz. I never said he couldn't speedblitz. I know he can speedblitz. I'm arguing that he hasn't demonstrated the ability to FTL speedblitz.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Naturally. You have to prove that things he's clearly done he can't do in order to gain your side support. Hence the rule breaking.

Because reacting at FTL speeds while flying doesn't translate to reacting at FTL speeds?

"If I haven't seen it it must not have happened. Combat speed is what I define combat speed to be."

I honestly don't understand what your problem is. "Travel speed does not equal battle speed." I have no idea why you believe I am ignoring the no-PIS rule over this and you still haven't explained why. If you thought I was saying that Superman can't speedblitz, then you just spent several pages of posts misreading my arguments. I said he hasn't demonstrated the ability to FTL speedblitz.

Personally, if you've misunderstood my argument... that's fine. But if you still have a problem with the "travel speed does not equate to battle speed" rationale, then you don't just have a problem with me but most of the people on this forum. The conclusory nature of using travel speed as a justification for battle speed would be even more fallacious. Which is ironic. Because assuming that travel speed equals battle speed, that would benefit my position that Thor could beat Superman. Since Thor has travelled at FTL speeds aplenty. Nevertheless, I still choose not to subscribe to a conclusory argument.

Now if you want to argue that travel speed equals battle speed, that's fine. I can do that. But you're criticizing me for something I didn't even say, not explaining your reasons for your position and furthermore, criticizing me for pointing out problems in an argument. Now... honestly... on that last point... that's all that you've been doing ever since you followed me here. And you're calling me hypocritical?

You had several chances to actually contribute to this thread and explain your arguments. I invited you to do so. Instead, you've continued to engage in labelling, mischaracterizations and to be honest, a whole heck of a lot of hypocrisy. I don't know if you were intending irony with all that. And I don't really care. Welcome to ignore.

"So what would be the difference in using the instance in which Surfer thoroughly scanned the earth in moments as an indication that he could speedblitz?"

Was talking about this, Cresh.

This is just a bunch of trolls. No point to this debate.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I never said you don't know anythign about it. I only pointed it out that you keep spelling it wrong... several times in fact. So it's a repeated typo. Besides the point.
Umm. I said he hasn't shown to FTL speedblitz. I never said he couldn't speedblitz. I know he can speedblitz. I'm arguing that he hasn't demonstrated the ability to FTL speedblitz.
He can move at lightspeeds except when its an attack. because regardless of the fact that he went to saturn in four minutes, if there was a person in the way that he was trying to beat he'd be slowed way down. And not of his own choosing. And that's not against the rules to depower a character so long as you word it creatively.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I honestly don't understand what your problem is. "Travel speed does not equal battle speed." I have no idea why you believe I am ignoring the no-PIS rule over this and you still haven't explained why.
Again, this is either equivocation or a strawman. Its the above that makes you ignore the rules.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you thought I was saying that Superman can't speedblitz, then you just spent several pages of posts misreading my arguments. I said he can't FTL speedblitz.
Why not? "because he's never shown to do it." ITs with his capability to move at FTL right? "Only when traveling." So he can't react at light speeds and always slams into things because he couldn't react to his environment in time?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Personally, if you've misunderstood my argument... that's fine. But if you still have a problem with the "travel speed does not equate to battle speed" rationale, then you don't just have a problem with me
Because you ARE your arguments right?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
but most of the people on this forum. The conclusory nature of using travel speed as a justification for battle speed would be falacious.
Seperating something into two categories? Last person I saw make this argument was arguing that batman and deathstroke could beat superman because he doesn't have combat speed... Course people think he's mentally retarded...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Even though assuming so would actually benefit my position that Thor could deal with Superman, since Thor has travelled at FTL speeds aplenty, I still choose not to subscribe to a conclusory argument.
Because they slam into things when traveling at those speeds don't they? What with their reflexes being slower than the speed that they can move at.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Now if you want to argue that travel speed equals battle speed, that's fine. I can do that. But you're criticizing me for something I didn't even say, not explaining your reasons for your position and furthermore, criticizing me for pointing out problems in an argument. Now... honestly... on that last point... that's all that you've been doing ever since you followed me here. And you're calling me hypocritical?
I'm using the socratic style. That has no impact on any hypocricy you may or may not have...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You had several chances to actually contribute to this thread and explain your arguments. I invited you to do so. Instead, you've continued to engage in labelling, mischaracterizations and to be honest, a whole heck of a lot of hypocrisy.
Didn't you just accuse me of misreading your argument? Now you have the gall to call me a hypocrite? I think you're just looking for an excuse to run away as you can't deal with what I've said.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't know if you were intending irony with all that. And I don't really care. Welcome to ignore.
Bye bye coward. It's alot easier to declare yourself the winner and then put the person you "spanked" on ignore than deal with what they'er saying isn't it?

Good show coward, good show.

I also like how you cut the arguments like this out rather than answering them:
Because reacting at FTL speeds while flying doesn't translate to reacting at FTL speeds?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"So what would be the difference in using the instance in which Surfer thoroughly scanned the earth in moments as an indication that he could speedblitz?"

Was talking about this, Cresh.

This is just a bunch of trolls. No point to this debate.

A bunch of trolls? The question still remains on how Superman, a character who has been classified as being on the same level as Orion more or less, has what it takes to defeat an entity more powerful than Odin.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"So what would be the difference in using the instance in which Surfer thoroughly scanned the earth in moments as an indication that he could speedblitz?"

Was talking about this, Cresh.

This is just a bunch of trolls. No point to this debate.

Well, at least onedumbg0 put me on ignore... that's a first. Oh wait no its not, I've had people put me on ignore when I call them on their bullshit before. They can't handle it so they run. Hell its not like I called him things like stupid or idiot like I wanted to. I was as civil as the socratic style allows for. But I guess he's used to people trying to debate like nor mal people and had no way to deal with the socratic style.

Eh. srug

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"So what would be the difference in using the instance in which Surfer thoroughly scanned the earth in moments as an indication that he could speedblitz?"

Was talking about this, Cresh.

This is just a bunch of trolls. No point to this debate.

Will you please exit this discussion. You've contributed nothing.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
A bunch of trolls? The question still remains on how Superman, a character who has been classified as being on the same level as Orion more or less, has what it takes to defeat an entity more powerful than Odin.
Could you please be so kind as to direct me to the evidence of these two conclusions?

You know, I've never put anyone on ignore.

Originally posted by Ruin
You know, I've never put anyone on ignore.
I have, but only when the situation devovles into both sides flaming. and I don't mean OneDumbG0's ina bility to handle socratic irony and sarcasm. I mean when we both started to really do nothing but call each other names and curse the other out. At that point I decided it was better to stop responding to the person.

Putting someone on ignore is pretty peaceful and liberating and I understand why the moderators encourage it. At least for myself, the thread becomes less derailed. Honestly, I find no reason to engage in a back and forth with someone who just flames and doesn't argue. I had no idea how "travelling speed does not equal battle speed" involved any ignorance of the no-PIS rule and he just wouldn't explain it. I even gave him several chances to explain.

Now if someone else wants to argue that travelling speed equals battle speed, I'll engage in that debate. That has several applications to this thread. It's kind of ironic though, because Thor and Silver Surfer fans are usually the ones that try to argue travel speed equals battle speed. Does anybody else here think that travel speed equals battle speed? Oh... and most importantly, why?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Putting someone on ignore is pretty peaceful and liberating and I understand why the moderators encourage it. At least for myself, the thread becomes less derailed. Honestly, I find no reason to engage in a back and forth with someone who just flames and doesn't argue. I had no idea how "travelling speed does not equal battle speed" involved any ignorance of the no-PIS rule and he just wouldn't explain it. I even gave him several chances to explain.

Now if someone else wants to argue that travelling speed equals battle speed, I'll engage in that debate. That has several applications to this thread. It's kind of ironic though, because Thor and Silver Surfer fans are usually the ones that try to argue travel speed equals battle speed. Does anybody else here think that travel speed equals battle speed? Oh... and most importantly, why?

Nope.

Travel speed doesn't equal combat speed.

Combat speed equals combat speed.

And Superman has combat speed in spades over any version of Thor to ever grace Marvel's books.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Putting someone on ignore is pretty peaceful and liberating and I understand why the moderators encourage it. At least for myself, the thread becomes less derailed. Honestly, I find no reason to engage in a back and forth with someone who just flames and doesn't argue. I had no idea how "travelling speed does not equal battle speed" involved any ignorance of the no-PIS rule and he just wouldn't explain it. I even gave him several chances to explain.

Now if someone else wants to argue that travelling speed equals battle speed, I'll engage in that debate. That has several applications to this thread. It's kind of ironic though, because Thor and Silver Surfer fans are usually the ones that try to argue travel speed equals battle speed. Does anybody else here think that travel speed equals battle speed? Oh... and most importantly, why?

Why should people answer? so you can put them on ignore too?
You sitll never answered this question:
Reacting at FTL speeds while flying doesn't translate to reacting at FTL speeds?

funny that.

Also reported for trolling.

Originally posted by Soljer
Because scanning the Earth with ridiculous travel speed and unparalleled cosmic senses is not comparable.

Huh? If Surfer's mind can process that much data in that short of a period of time and Surfer can do things like amp his stats with the PC then how isn't that scan a viable reference for his top combat speed? I'm not talking about using to prove that he can fight at high speeds(there are other scans for that), I'm talking about using it to establish HOW quickly he can fight. After all, the point of Supes's city building feat isn't to prove that he can blitz, it's to prove that he can blitz at faster than light speeds(which is why I originally brought the Surfer scan as a comparison).

Originally posted by darthgoober
Huh? If Surfer's mind can process that much data in that short of a period of time and Surfer can do things like amp his stats with the PC then how isn't that scan a viable reference for his top combat speed? I'm not talking about using to prove that he can fight at high speeds(there are other scans for that), I'm talking about using it to establish HOW quickly he can fight. After all, the point of Supes's city building feat isn't to prove that he can blitz, it's to prove that he can blitz at faster than light speeds(which is why I originally brought the Surfer scan as a comparison).

It means he can process information at very high speeds.

But, then again, Blue Gene can process nearly six hundred TFLOPS, and I don't really see it throwing a punch any faster than a UFC fighter that probably cannot do basic arithmetic.

Processing information isn't really comparable to combat. Picking up beams, laying bricks, painting walls, installing glass, doing real physical labor is much more comparable.

Originally posted by Soljer
It means he can process information at very high speeds.

But, then again, Blue Gene can process nearly six hundred TFLOPS, and I don't really see it throwing a punch any faster than a UFC fighter that probably cannot do basic arithmetic.

Processing information isn't really comparable to combat. Picking up beams, laying bricks, painting walls, installing glass, doing real physical labor is [b]much more comparable. [/B]


Surfer isn't confined to things like punching though. All he has to do is hold out his hands and he can fire off blast after blast without ever having to move his arms or just use eyeblast. So would that scan be proof that Surfer could do something like fire off a thousand eyeblast in a second since all that's really required to fire an energy blast is something like a mental "push"?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer isn't confined to things like punching though. All he has to do is hold out his hands and he can fire off blast after blast without ever having to move his arms or just use eyeblast. So would that scan be proof that Surfer could do something like fire off a thousand eyeblast in a second since all that's really required to fire an energy blast is something like a mental "push"?
That wouldn't really translate into hand to hand combat speed if he's just standing there with his arm out. He's not really reacting if he's not moving.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer isn't confined to things like punching though. All he has to do is hold out his hands and he can fire off blast after blast without ever having to move his arms or just use eyeblast. So would that scan be proof that Surfer could do something like fire off a thousand eyeblast in a second since all that's really required to fire an energy blast is something like a mental "push"?

You know exactly what is required of the Surfer to fire an energy blast?

Processing information isn't really comparable to utilizing (comparatively) esoteric powers, either.