Thor vs Superman

Originally posted by Starscream M
do you agree that he's still much much faster than thor though?

Sure, in terms of sporadic reflexes and the like. Flight speed, heck, you could argue Thor being faster, but either way he doesn't use his speed in comics to the degree that people think he does. It's been called CIS/PIS/I Don't Like It, So I'm Going to Ignore It/Whatever, but that's just the reality of it. The second we take speed and just arbitrarily assume that anyone with any measure of superspeed begins operating at the levels of absurdity some think is the norm on a consistent "forum" platform, you may as well take every single power ever displayed besides speed and extrapolate it to its ultimate potential/outcome as well.

When that day comes, I'll be sure to weep a few more extra tears for the forum.

Originally posted by Starscream M
do you agree that he's still much much faster than thor though?

I don't see new Superman as faster than Thor.

From my perspective, there about equals in speed, with Thor outshining him in durability, power output and strength.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Sure, in terms of sporadic reflexes and the like. Flight speed, heck, you could argue Thor being faster, but either way he doesn't use his speed in comics to the degree that people think he does. It's been called CIS/PIS/I Don't Like It, So I'm Going to Ignore It/Whatever, but that's just the reality of it. The second we take speed and just arbitrarily assume that anyone with any measure of superspeed begins operating at the levels of absurdity some think is the norm on a consistent "forum" platform, you may as well take every single power ever displayed besides speed and extrapolate it to its ultimate potential/outcome as well.

When that day comes, I'll be sure to weep a few more extra tears for the forum.

PIS/CIS affects superman in comics insofar as he doesn't utilize his speed as often...otherwise he would win too easy, which is why writers dont portray his speed unless he's fighting against a speedster, in which case his speed goes way up.

in a forum fight, there is no writer CIS to worry about. Superman would not fight at a speed much much lower than he is capable of just to make a fight exciting. he would use his speed just as you would, without even thinking about it.

Originally posted by SquallX
I don't see new Superman as faster than Thor.

From my perspective, there about equals in speed, with Thor outshining him in durability, power output and strength.

Originally posted by SquallX
I don't see new Superman as faster than Thor.

From my perspective, there about equals in speed, with Thor outshining him in durability, power output and strength.

based on what? thor is always bleeding in his fights so if you judge durability by bleeding than thor is inferior since even taskmaster made him bleed , other than that there is no showing of current superman having a low durability or some limit to it

strength? again how do you messure there strength? current superman has like 3 fights so farand he didnt get to use his strength yet so what do you base that off? there muscle size in the art? dont be funny

the way i see it current superman is faster IMO , stronger , has much better fighting reflex and overall a better fighter

Originally posted by Starscream M
speed is different from certain powers in that it is an inherent characteristic

PIS/CIS affects superman in comics insofar as he doesn't utilize his speed as often...otherwise he would win too easy, which is why writers dont portray his speed unless he's fighting against a speedster, in which case his speed goes way up.

in a forum fight, there is no writer CIS to worry about. Superman would not fight at a speed much much lower than he is capable of just to make a fight exciting. he would use his speed just as you would, without even thinking about it.

Manipulating energy is an inherent characteristic for some characters. Or being a high end magic user. Or an elementalist. Speed, when you boil it down, is just a specific form of energy that's used, especially when you look at Flash related characters. Why that somehow gets a free pass to be extrapolated to its illogical and insane conclusions and other more open ended power sets do not is a great mystery to me.

I'd like to think writers are smart enough to be able to pen stories of Superman operating at maximum efficiency without fear of making things "too easy" for him. In that case, every time Superman's "not holding back" or "cutting loose" means jack shit because he didn't move fast enough for a battle board mentality. And I for one think that's stupid as hell.

Basically, the day Superman ever solo one panels a team of high heralds or something comparable with the ever vaunted combo to ko/speedblitz maneuver and starts to do that on even a semi regular basis, is the day I'll seriously consider arguing it in the context of a battle on the forum. And if writers really clung to speed how some of us do, then they'd easily show that kind of crap in their comics.

Originally posted by Babajaev
based on what? thor is always bleeding in his fights so if you judge durability by bleeding than thor is inferior since even taskmaster made him bleed , other than that there is no showing of current superman having a low durability or some limit to it

strength? again how do you messure there strength? current superman has like 3 fights so farand he didnt get to use his strength yet so what do you base that off? there muscle size in the art? dont be funny

the way i see it current superman is faster IMO , stronger , has much better fighting reflex and overall a better fighter

This thread is really old.

Superman currently has not business beating Thor, when we have yet to see whether he is more powerful than he was prior to the reboot.

Post reboot Superman isn't beating Thor, but I can see him giving him a decent fight.

Originally posted by Babajaev
based on what? thor is always bleeding in his fights so if you judge durability by bleeding than thor is inferior since even taskmaster made him bleed , other than that there is no showing of current superman having a low durability or some limit to it

strength? again how do you messure there strength? current superman has like 3 fights so farand he didnt get to use his strength yet so what do you base that off? there muscle size in the art? dont be funny

the way i see it current superman is faster IMO , stronger , has much better fighting reflex and overall a better fighter

Damage soak =/= durability. Superman's generally more conventionally invulnerable to piercing and slashing kind of damage than Thor. Doesn't take away from Thor's impressive blunt force trauma resistance or his energy resistance, both of which actually matter when fighting Superman. Even diehard Superman fanatics acknowledge Thor's a peer, unless, well, they've abandoned reason for madness.

Also, how can you in one sentence claim Thor doesn't have strength superior to current Superman and then in another say Superman's stronger than Thor when, as you put it, he only had three fights thus far? He really didn't show anything suggesting he's a good a fighter as pre-Flashpoint Kal, let alone Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Basically, the day Superman ever solo one panels a team of high heralds or something comparable with the ever vaunted combo to ko/speedblitz maneuver, is the day I'll seriously consider arguing it in the context of a battle on the forum. And if writers really clung to speed how some of us do, then they'd easily show that kind of crap in their comics.

thats my whole point, which is that writers will write characters with CIS handicaps

and you wont see superman solo a team of heralds, not because he can't, but because that would ruin his character for future storylines.

and speed is not the same as energy powers. when you use a blast, its still an active thought, speed is passive. RPGs even make this distinction.

Originally posted by Starscream M
writers don't cling to anything like we do...they write the most entertaining stories...we debate based on consistency, writers and us don't have any goals in common

thats my whole point, which is that writers will write characters with CIS handicaps

and you wont see superman solo a team of heralds, not because he can't, but because that would ruin his character for future storylines.

and speed is not the same as energy powers. when you use a blast, its still an active thought, speed is passive. RPGs even make this distinction.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, which is something that both fans and writers don't seem to understand at times. You can write a good story with fair and accurate depictions of power levels without having to resort to plot device or PIS to get things done.

Speed is just active as energy powers. You have to consciously exert effort, however little, to make yourself go faster. You can't have it both ways and just blindly accept anything speed related and not do the same for other abilities and powers which have been cited or shown to being just as "passive".

Originally posted by Starscream M
writers don't cling to anything like we do...they write the most entertaining stories...we debate based on consistency, writers and us don't have any goals in common

thats my whole point, which is that writers will write characters with CIS handicaps

and you wont see superman solo a team of heralds, not because he can't, but because that would ruin his character for future storylines.

and speed is not the same as energy powers. when you use a blast, its still an active thought, speed is passive. RPGs even make this distinction.

Tell that to people like Greg Pak.

If Superman does beat Thor, it won't be because of some overwhelming speed superiority.

It'll give him an edge, allowing him to dodge a blow that would be in his best interest to avoid here and there but that's about it. Like it or not, when facing opponents on this level, speed has never been more than a nuisance to Thor. People so readily accept Thor's lower end showings due to his inconsistent nature in speed but seem to refuse to acknowledge the other side. Gladiator, Surfer, Sentry, Hyperion, Stardust (In the case of Bill) etc. have all learned that their speed advantage is something that Thor can counter whether due to his own reflexes or other powers.

The one time that I can think of where it has been shown to have a noticeable tactical difference is that first fight with Gladiator. But even then, Thor was occupied with helping the girl in danger and he payed Gladiator back with interest. By this point, the battle mechanics of these type of characters is so consistent that there isn't anything to debate about unless it's a CBR version of Superman.

Clark at best will take like 6/10 against Thor and that's mostly because the Odinson rarely changes tactics or ups his power level unless there's more on the line or he's realized his opponents capabilities. That will play to Clark's strengths for some fights and he's probably more willing to try different approaches. This isn't to say that Thor can't adapt or isn't versatile.

Personally, I think it's a split or edge to Thor but that's just me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Damage soak =/= durability. Superman's generally more conventionally invulnerable to piercing and slashing kind of damage than Thor. Doesn't take away from Thor's impressive blunt force trauma resistance or his energy resistance, both of which actually matter when fighting Superman. Even diehard Superman fanatics acknowledge Thor's a peer, unless, well, they've abandoned reason for madness.

Also, how can you in one sentence claim Thor doesn't have strength superior to current Superman and then in another say Superman's stronger than Thor when, as you put it, he only had three fights thus far? He really didn't show anything suggesting he's a good a fighter as pre-Flashpoint Kal, let alone Thor.

i know that current sups doesnt have strength feats and i said he is stronger because i wanted to show that i can also say he is stronger and no one can disprove it so it works both ways but yeah he doesnt have any strength feats but logically we can assume he wont be greater than ordinary superman since its him in his earlier years so he cant be stronger he can just hold back less

So now we discard superman's speed because he doesn't use it often yet in every superman-surfer thread, surfer oneshots kal in the first nano-second by his "cosmic awareness" and is completely indiffrent towards kal's punches because he "goes through black holes". Nevermind that thor wrecked him in every fight and he couldn't take down an injured thor recently. So how many showings are gonna be discarded here, it's quite simple "every high showing of superman is PIS, the only showings that count are where he has lost." I've seen it enough times, go to CBR diana oneshots him there. Thor drives galactus away, thor is a BADASS. Superman defeats dominus or darkseid, they are now mid heralds. Black adam trounced entire JSA three times in their own title, he is a BADASS. Superman defeated JLA while amped, superman is TOO OVERPOWERED and BORING. Hal oneshotted Krona, no one batted an eye. People still objects about superman oneshotting Diana in Final crisis and despero in S/B 32. People are arguing about how Hal should've owned Kal in JL 2 and he shouldn't have punked Barry.

Thor 10/10, because he has a MAGICAL HAMMER. Thor coats mjlonir in magic lightning and ONESHOTS superman just like Captain marvel or Black adam would do. Oh superman's speed is NOTHING, he once failed to hit Shadowdragon whom lady shiva stomped later.

Thor should win the slight majority not because of his hammer, because of his versatility with his powers. Thor and Superman are peers in strength, durability, indomitable will, endurance, invulnerability but that's where the comparison ends, Thor is more versatile with his powers, he can overwhelm Superman with these abilities including mystical powers which is Superman real weakness that Thor can exploit. This one a few battles that you can see ends in a stalemate, they are evenly match in the physical stats, with Superman will he can press on and push Thor to his limits and like wise for Thor even more so, that why I feel Thor would win 6/10 or stalemate, not no 10/10 unless it's King Thor or Rune Thor!

Originally posted by the Darkone
Thor should win the slight majority not because of his hammer, because of his versatility with his powers. Thor and Superman are peers in strength, durability, indomitable will, endurance, invulnerability but that's where the comparison ends, Thor is more versatile with his powers, he can overwhelm Superman with these abilities including mystical powers which is Superman real weakness that Thor can exploit. This one a few battles that you can see ends in a stalemate, they are evenly match in the physical stats, with Superman will he can press on and push Thor to his limits and like wise for Thor even more so, that why I feel Thor would win 6/10 or stalemate, not no 10/10 unless it's King Thor or Rune Thor!

tell me something in your opinion if king thor and Rune king thor teamed up on Cosmic Armor Superman could they win?

Originally posted by Babajaev
tell me something in your opinion if king thor and Rune king thor teamed up on Cosmic Armor Superman could they win?

What type of ? is that, don't insult my intelligence!

To answer your ?, hell to the NO!

^Why not RKT was above odin and odin beats every version of superman combined. RKT was omniscient, omnipresent, and had ALL POWERFUL ODINFORCE. He oneshots Cosmic armor superman. Seriously tell me how does superman wins a single time against thor who is equaly strong, equaly tough, can ESILY cancel superman's speed with his "god like reflexes", absorb and reflect HV, godblast, antiblast, matter manipulation, SOLAR ENERGY ABSOPRTION, gravity manipulation, soul suck, and a MAGICAL HAMMER that can shatter Arishem's domepiece while "superman's as susceptible to magic as a HUMAN" according to LEX. Thor KILLS superman 10/10 just like shazam brothers. God, what an OVERPOWERED and boring hero, I think no one would miss Stupidman.

I think abhilegend needs a hug or something.