Originally posted by YFZ 350what do you mean by cakewalk?
I don't. I just don't think Wolverine will walk right through him without any trouble is my stance. Wolverine will beat Blade, I just don't think it will be a cakewalk is all.
I mean, sure Blade is prob gonna land a coupla stabs (perhaps Logan will let him) but it won't be too much of a challenge for Logan at all imo.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneThe implication that you were giving off was simply that it could not be googled. I proved otherwise. Now if you quote me where I said that you hadn't read the issue then I'll gladly call you a liar... but since that is not my argument then I really don't need to persue the argument in that direction.
Well I didnt get it from google anyway I got it from the comics. Gonna call me a liar? 😐
By the way I cant actually see where you got the quote where Northstar said Wolverine had upgrades looked at the link and I didnt see anything.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
http://forum.newsarama.com/archive/index.php/t-34201.htmlWheres is it?
OK this issue starts off with Wolverine tracking down Northstar who seems to be on a killing spree. Wolverine wants to give him a chance to reform, Northstar is not for that so they prepare to fight when a teleporter shows up and teleports a bunch of villian that kick the ____ out of Wolverine.
Back at the S.H.I.E.L.D outpost we learn that the doctor had authorized the release of Wolverine, and S.H.I.E.L.D are not to happy about it (like he had a choice). Meanwhile Wolverine is being held captive by Northstar, Elektra and a bunch of reformed supers. Northstar reveals that they plan on killing all Super heros then kings then the President. They find out that Wolverine has a device it his neck the cloaks his Mutant gene, Why you may asks? because Three SENTINALS show up and make soup out of the supers (All mutants i guess) a set up by Wolverine. Northstar takes out one Sentinal ,but, gets blasted by another. Northstar does not die but is badly burned, Wolverine says that he wouldn't kill him if he gives him the where abouts of Hydra's supreme commanders, Northstar tell Logan to "Kiss my....."and before he can finish Wolverine knocks him out(Would have been better if he said Kiss Me), then reports to S.H.E.I.L.D that he need someone to pick up Northstar, takes off on a Sentinal to find the hand. great last page.
Thats the actual post where does it say Northstar said Wolverine had upgrades?
How is that the actual post when it doesn't contain the word upgrade?
In fact you'll note that:
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Northstar said Wolverine had upgrades in Wolverine issue 28
http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/display.php?id=1
In Wolverine #28, we learn that Hydra scientists have successfully re-engineered and upgraded Northstar’s ability to generate light. Several other upgrades are alluded to, but neither listed nor demonstrated in the course of the story.
http://forum.newsarama.com/archive/index.php/t-34201.html
FiniteMan!05-29-2005, 02:55 PM
It was a very much in the tradition of the Wolverine comics from years ago. The issue was pretty much Wolverine on his own, including bar showdown.On the positive site, Wolverine's trap was pretty good. Very creative with some nice touches that would be very consistent with the character (the blood and paste comment, choosing sentinels---something most of the characters would likely either fear or have no experience fighting and were going to be extremely through.).
On the negative side, northstar defeated the Sentinel by flying through him. I guess I can take that as they did say earlier in the book that Hydra had given him "lots of upgrades".
Hmm.
B- = I am still buying them, but I am still not thrilled with the stories.
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/printthread.php?t=34637
Sparks is a teleporter. The Dawn types in the bar are much closer now. Jean-Paul uses his flash on Logan and Logan remarks that he's gotten it back, which is odd because JP used it in "Uncanny" #420. I had no idea he'd lost it. Northstar claims to have a lot of upgrades. He wants his bunch to kick Wolverine's head in & make a mess.
Its Northstar whom Northstar said was upgraded.
[/quote]
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneBecause when a character tries to end it in a draw the characters always tell the truth right?
The differnce is Blade said that they were evenly mathced and because of that reason Wolverine would not go after him, and thats what happened.
So Spiderman can break adamantium with a lower level of strength where the Hulk has tried and failed to do something that spiderman could do because Wolveirne said he could do it?
Originally posted by YFZ 350I agree with this. I'm not saying Blade can take down Wolverine but he would give him a good fight.
I don't. I just don't think Wolverine will walk right through him without any trouble is my stance. Wolverine will beat Blade, I just don't think it will be a cakewalk is all.
Originally posted by starlock
I am sure you have read the scans...so i hope you did,and you would know blade was not interested in going after wolvie..yes..but you are going overboard here, its clear shield will give blade immunity to stake as many vamps as he likes..and also access to shields resources,blade says "do i have to sign some papers"...
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/BladeandWolverine2.jpgNo offense but it is looking like you just dont want to like wolverine and/or just hate him...which is ok, but i would think an objective view would mean allot to a debator with your skill and knowledge 😉
That is also a good point as well but the fact of the matter is that Blade would still feel bad about dragging some guy to SHIELD HQ who hasnt done a damn thing to him. Blade is still a good guy and he would feel bad about attacking Wolverine regardless of what hes getting in return he obvoulsy was not trying his best when he fought Wolverine.
You might be right in the fact that there is some bias but thats because when ive actually made comprimise with certain Wolverine debators they continue to insult me and make-up excuses for the character. Yes I should try to rise above it but do you know how frustrating it is to continually try to comprimise with ceratin people and basically get **** all in return....sometimes you just dont give a ****. I'll bend over backwards and basically they just dont give a ****. In this thread I have stated that Wolverine fans have made good points and Blade fans have made good points so really I think im doing a good job in being objective actually.
I still think though if you look at his other showings he really should have done better. Hell Blade took down a vamped Spiderman who is arguably more dangerous than a normal Spiderman and hes taken on Gambit. Hes beaten Dracula whos beaten the X-men and hes done this as far as back as the 70s (apparently).
Furthermore it needs to be noted that Wolverine said "What you think im gonna let you just walk out of here?" Blade said they were too evenly mathched, Wolverine let him walk out, so theres some truth to it. I think this is what the writer was trying to portray but I do think the fight was terribly written.
Originally posted by jinzin
Then why do you continue to argue? lol.
Boredom.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by jinzin
What makes you think he should do better? He has no advantages over Logan while Logan has several over Blade.
*sigh* I dunno posters have given reasons.
Originally posted by jinzinUh yeah it does, it means that Wolverine's a superior fighter.
"barely remember any of it, I wasn't in my right mind at the time" It affected him... 😐
He wasnt in his right mind because he was trying to kill people who were his allies. Just because he cant remember any of it doesnt mind that it affected his fighting skill when he was trying to kill people.
He knew who Elecktra and DD were and he knew they're history why would we assume that he would forget his fighting skills?
He was fast enough jump Kitty and Northstar and Northtar wasnt even fast enough to react. The fact that he got them by suprise is neither here nor there. Northstar would have been on edge and the speed at which Wolverine jumped was probably a fraction compared Northstars speed feats. Furthermore Northstar said Wolverine had been given upgrades. So clearly ETOS made DD look like a better fighter despite the experience that Wolverine had. Hell Wolverine messed Thing pretty quickly didnt he? Does that look like somebody whos fighting skills were messed up.
Originally posted by Creshosk
The implication that you were giving off was simply that it could not be googled. I proved otherwise. Now if you quote me where I said that you hadn't read the issue then I'll gladly call you a liar... but since that is not my argument then I really don't need to persue the argument in that direction.
No im not going to quote you but since you have called me a liar before for no reason at all im in my right mind to think you were.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Its Northstar whom Northstar said was upgraded.
That not the bloody point though is it??????? What did I say? I said.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Northstar said Wolverine had upgrades in Wolverine issue 28
Show me where in those scans it says that Northstar said that Wolverine was given upgrades....because thats what I said You were obvoulsy trying to call me a liar by trying to prove that you can wiki that information and you havent even found the information. You obvoulsy didnt read the issue did you???? If you had you would know that Northstar said he had upgrades and Wolverine had as well.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Because when a character tries to end it in a draw the characters always tell the truth right?So Spiderman can break adamantium with a lower level of strength where the Hulk has tried and failed to do something that spiderman could do because Wolveirne said he could do it?
You are missing the point its not just about what Blade said, its also about what Wolverine did next. Wolverine let him go and therefore there must be some truth in the statement.
What you are doing is giving examples of people saying things with no other evidence to back it up.
Originally posted by starlock
Is this for real? i am done with this thread, this cant be for real, now you are writing what should have been said and what they are thinking....good luck 🙂
He made a valid point. If you unloaded a clip into somebody with th intention of messing them up and they were still standing what would you think? How would you react?
The obvious answer is suprise and im pretty sure if I we did a survey of the whole forum most people would be suprised so its not an unreasonable point.
Originally posted by YFZ 350
I just don't get why if you think Blade is so worthless why they would even bother to select him for the mission when there was plenty of other guys to select.
Blade fought Wolverine 3 weeks after he jumped out of the hellicarrier.
I never said Logan wasn't going all out. I said Blade wasn't going all out either. 😉 You seem to think he was though.
Logan backed down. Or he would have continued his assault, which he did not do.Dracula took Logan to school. Blade at least put up some sort of resistance. Logan got WTF pwned.
We'll have to see about that.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneSo then, any evidence where somone takes on a mindcontrolled Cap or Punisher is admissable as absolute proof against the character?
He wasnt in his right mind because he was trying to kill people who were his allies. Just because he cant remember any of it doesnt mind that it affected his fighting skill when he was trying to kill people.
He was fighting his mind control, he wasn't thinking his own thoughts, he had several different influences in his head... It affected him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He knew who Elecktra and DD were and he knew they're history why would we assume that he would forget his fighting skills?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He was fast enough jump Kitty and Northstar and Northtar wasnt even fast enough to react. The fact that he got them by suprise is neither here nor there.
Uh yeah it IS here.. and there! Stop ignoring context. If Kitty the circumstances hadn't set Northstar up to take a fall it probably wouldn't have happened.
Aside from that, I fail to see what his speed has to do with how his fighting ability was effected.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Northstar would have been on edge and the speed at which Wolverine jumped was probably a fraction compared Northstars speed feats. Furthermore Northstar said Wolverine had been given upgrades.
The only thing that Wolverine was given by Hydra/Hand was antiquated teleportation tech that didn't even work very well.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So clearly ETOS made DD look like a better fighter despite the experience that Wolverine had.
EVEN THEN, it doesn't show DD as superior. Or did you fail to notice how once all the ninja had been dropped Wolverine was outpacing DD. Almost skewered him. The only thing DD had going for himself at that point was when he managed to joggle Wolverine's mind control making him lose his balance and fall over a conveniently placed body.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneIt's like we've been saying for years, against bricks with no respectable healing factor all Wolverine needs is one good shot to put them down. That's all that happened. You don't need to be a level 7 to beat Thing in a fight when you're faster and you've got blades that go through his hide like they go through paper. That's not even representative of Wolverine with good fighting ability considering that Thing was able to nail him with a massive pillar of wires, and tubing. 😬
Hell Wolverine messed Thing pretty quickly didnt he? Does that look like somebody whos fighting skills were messed up.
Just to make this final point:
Stating that Wolverine could have killed Blade because he did not pop his claws and that he was not trying his best is irrelevant. You know why?Blade was not trying his best either and NOBODY is denying that Wolverine was not trying his best.
This is similar to an argument used in Spiderman vs Captain America in the civil war. The Spiderman side constantly keeps mentioning how Spiderman did not want to fight Captain America because he idolised him. You know what they seem to forget is that Captain America did not want to fight either. Cap didnt want to beat up a guy who thought he was trying to do the right thing, looked up to him and was conflicted but everbody seems to forget that.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Just to make this final point:[B] Stating that Wolverine could have killed Blade because he did not pop his claws and that he was not trying his best is irrelevant. You know why?Blade was not trying his best either and NOBODY is denying that Wolverine was not trying his best.
This is similar to an argument used in Spiderman vs Captain America in the civil war. The Spiderman side constantly keeps mentioning how Spiderman did not want to fight Captain America because he idolised him. You know what they seem to forget is that Captain America did not want to fight either. Cap didnt want to beat up a guy who thought he was trying to do the right thing, looked up to him and was conflicted but everbody seems to forget that. [/B]
Originally posted by jinzin
doh! Are you ignoring what Cresh posted? Wolverine didn't have upgrades, Northstar did.😬
RIGHT THATS IT!!!!! IVE HAD IT UP TO HERE!!! GET WOLVERINE ISSUE 28 RIGHT NOW AND FIND THE PART WHERE NORTHSTAR SAYS WOLVERINE HAD UPGRADES RIGHT NOW!!!!!!
This is what makes me sick to death with Wolverine fans. You keep complaining about how I dont read comics and even when I do you still try to make out that im wrong. Remember when I said that if I read comics it wouldnt make a difference and how you would keep making excuses???? Thats what you're doing now.
Why dont you just think for yourself and stop agreeing with everything Creshock says. Hell if Creshock told you rape was ok you'd probably agree with him....god!!!
Originally posted by jinzin
So Cap didn't want to fight Spiderman who went after him. They were fighting under the same handicap thus making the evidence admissable to a certain degree right?
And, Wolverine only wanted a beer after fighting Omega Red instead of fighting Blade who went after him....
So then they were fighting with the same handicap which would make the evidence admissable to a certain degree right? And Wolverine did better.. thank you for discrediting your own argument. 🙄
Shut up and get me wolverine issue 28 and scan it. Sick to death with your BS.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
RIGHT THATS IT!!!!! IVE HAD IT UP TO HERE!!! GET WOLVERINE ISSUE 28 RIGHT NOW AND FIND THE PART WHERE NORTHSTAR SAYS WOLVERINE HAD UPGRADES RIGHT NOW!!!!!!This is what makes me sick to death with Wolverine fans. You keep complaining about how I dont read comics and even when I do you still try to make out that im wrong. Remember when I said that if I read comics it wouldnt make a difference and how you would keep making excuses???? Thats what you're doing now.
Why dont you just think for yourself and stop agreeing with everything Creshock says. Hell if Creshock told you rape was ok you'd probably agree with him....god!!!
You keep saying/implying that Wolverine had upgrades. You want to talk about reading the arc? Okay tell me where you saw him have anything that'd be considered an upgrade past a crappy "jumper" device, and a cloaking device? He didn't have physical upgrades to his body. 😬
I'm not making excuses for anything, it's a fact that using a brainwashed Wolverine isn't indicitive of his actual fighting ability. For multiple reasons previously stated.
These excuses as you like to call them, are the only REASONS why DD would last in a fight with Wolverine for more than 4 panels.
With how good Wolverine is at fighting you don't find it suspect AT ALL that he can't land a solid hit to the face with his claws out on guys like Cap or DD? Guys that should NEVER logically beat someone like Wolverine in a fight.
Hell Wolverine wouldn't even have to be a good fighter to beat them logically; He's stronger, faster, his bones are indestructable (any punch, kick or strike they land on bone, any block he makes would only serve to hurt them. Like trying to duke it out with an iron dummy. The dummy wins), on top of that any damage they could possibly inflict on him would regenerate before they ever had the chance to capitalize on it.
Add in the 100+ years of experience, training in every major government/secret/spy organization on the globe, Weapon X training, Ninja training, Samurai training, and X-men training. There's NO REASON, NOR EXCUSE to keep Wolverine from landing a direct hit into the faces of these guys other than to keep them alive to sell more comics.
I mean c'mon, you've got crossbones who repeatidly hits Cap in the face, Taskmaster who clobbers him, and guys like Flagsmasher who can get the job done.
You've got Gladiator, Punisher, and Kingpin putting hands all over Daredevil.
But when Wolverine gets on panel with these guys, all the sudden they're proffecient enough to block, parry, or dodge a stronger, faster, more skilled, more experienced opponent indefinitely?... Oooookay... But it's the Wolverine fans that need to make excuses right? 🙄
I agree with Cresh because he's right: Wolverine didn't have physical upgrades like you're describing/implying. Northstar did.
You tried to argue that your statements couldn't be found by just meandering about the internet, he proved you wrong with first results.
And, that's pretty sad that you think just because I agree with Cresh, it isn't because he's right or that you think him or I would EVER think rape is okay. Nice to show your desperation though. 😉
Originally posted by Phantom Zoneooorrrr we could just ignore the fact that you miffed your own argument. And multitudes of us are sick of yours, but we still tolerate your existance enough to reply to you don't we?
Shut up and get me wolverine issue 28 and scan it. Sick to death with your BS.
Nobody specified what type of upgrades Wolverine had. The point was wether Northstar said that Wolverine had upgrades or not.
Originally posted by CreshoskIts Northstar whom Northstar said was upgraded.
Creshock said that Northstar said he had upgrades and Wolverine didnt which is incorrect, nobody specified what type of upgrades he had. The argument was wether Wolverine got upgrades or not according to Northstar the fact is he did and you said Creshock was right which was incorrect.
You need to prove that Wolverine skills were affected by brainwashing all you are doing is saying that it was and that not evidence. He took out Thing in record time how the hell does that prove his fighting skills were effected? He ambushed Northstar and Kitty and Northstar wasnt even fast enough to react how the hell does that prove that his fighting skills were effected?
