Blade vs. Wolverine

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Nobody specified what type of upgrades Wolverine had. The point was wether Northstar said that Wolverine had upgrades or not.

That IS the point, since you seem to be under the impression that his "upgrades" somehow had an influence on the outcome of his h2h fights when they didn't.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Creshock said that Northstar said he had upgrades and Wolverine didnt which is incorrect, nobody specified what type of upgrades he had. The argument was wether Wolverine got upgrades or not according to Northstar the fact is he did and you said Creshock was right which was incorrect.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You need to prove that Wolverine skills were affected by brainwashing all you are doing is saying that it was and that not evidence.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He took out Thing in record time how the hell does that prove his fighting skills were effected?

Wolverine's landed that blow whether real or warning everytime they've fought. I fail to see how that's proof of his fighting skill being uneffected.

Again, there's multiples of evidence to suggest/prove that it was.. if you chose to ignore them not much I can do.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He ambushed Northstar and Kitty and Northstar wasnt even fast enough to react how the hell does that prove that his fighting skills were effected?

What does that's prove about his fighting skills? Like you said, it was an ambush. 😬

Originally posted by jinzin
That IS the point, since you seem to be under the impression that his "upgrades" somehow had an influence on the outcome of his h2h fights when they didn't.

I'm positive that Cresh is referring to physical upgrades, since that's what your implications alluded to. In that, he isn't wrong.

No no no. Nobody specifed what type of upgrades that were being used. The whole bloody point was that Cresh said that Wolverine had not receieved any bloody upgrades (regardles of what type)at all and Northstar said that he had only had upgrades based on what he said in the issue.

Even if he was refering to phsyical upgrades what was he using as his evidence? He was using the fact that Northstar said he had upgrades. So since you think that Creshock meant physical upgrades according to what Northstar said....and you think hes right....that means Wolverine must have had physical upgrades because Northstar mentioned that Wolverine had them as well.

Originally posted by jinzin

The hell are you babbling about? There's all sorts of evidence. The sum of which has already been given to you. If you chose to IGNORE evidence, well that's your perogative.

Saying you ahve provided evidence does not mean you have.

Originally posted by jinzin

How does it prove that they weren't? Thing's not a high class fighter on the levels of Wolvie and Cap etc.. He's a big target who is slower and less agile. Wolverine didn't need a lot of fighting skill to land a blow, and that's all that happened.

Thats not the point is it? The point is if the brainwashing had affected his fighting skills he would have had trouble taking down Thing in fact he took him down pretty easily.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine's landed that blow whether real or warning everytime they've fought. I fail to see how that's proof of his fighting skill being uneffected.

Again, there's multiples of evidence to suggest/prove that it was.. if you chose to ignore them not much I can do.

kitty...phased..... Northstar was caught off guard..

What does that's prove about his fighting skills? Like you said, it was an ambush. 😬

1. Stop saying that there is evidence that does not prove anything.
2. Wether Kitty phased or not is irrelevant. Northstar has the speed to manouever travelling at mutiple mach speed along the street, how fast do you think Wolverine was travelling nowhere near the speed of sound and Northstar cant react? 🤨 Helll he should have been able to react when Wolverine was in mid-air especially since Northstar has pawned Sabretooth.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No no no. Nobody specifed what type of upgrades that were being used. The whole bloody point was that Cresh said that Wolverine had not receieved any bloody upgrades (regardles of what type)at all and Northstar said that he had only had upgrades [B] based on what he said in the issue. [/B]

Okay Alf I'm going to hold your hand here as I take you through a little journey I like to call.. Linear time.

You and Battlehammer were discussing DD having stood up to a mind controlled Wolverine in an attempt to discredit Logan's superior fighting ability to Blade as being a factor in this fight. When Battlehammer argued the mind control you responded with this.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah his fighting skils were so messed up he was fast enough to kill Northstar and Northstar said that he was given upgrades.....utter rubbish.

The implication? Not only were Logan's skills in fighting ability NOT effected, but he even had upgrades to help him fight! 😱

The truth? Wolverine's skills were affected and he had no upgrades to help him in h2h fights.

When Battlehammer asked you if you read the issues because you were presenting Northstar's death without context, you got upset and insisted that it wasn't the kind of info you could just find on the net. Cresh proved you wrong there too, the fact that it was Northstar who was actually upgraded instead of Wolverine just goes to show that you either didn't read the books and DID get the info off the net, read the books but didn't comprehend what was actually being stated, or have the books, understood them, and still choose to misrepresent the material.

And why? Because you represented Wolverine having upgrades in a notion that his "upgrades" had anything to do with fighting skill. They didn't.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if he was refering to phsyical upgrades what was he using as his evidence? [B] He was using the fact that Northstar said he had upgrades. So since you think that Creshock meant physical upgrades according to what Northstar said....and you think hes right....that means Wolverine must have had physical upgrades because Northstar mentioned that Wolverine had them as well. [/B]

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Saying you ahve provided evidence does not mean you have.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats not the point is it? The point is if the brainwashing had affected his fighting skills he would have had trouble taking down Thing in fact he took him down pretty easily.

Wolverine took him down easily because he has weapons that can one shot any vulnerable brick who doesn't have a healing factor. Him hitting Thing in the chest is not a feat of skill. It's a feat of speed not so much that of skill. And it makes sense considering his physicality wasn't changed. His mental stability was.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. Stop saying that there is evidence that does not prove anything.
2. Wether Kitty phased or not is irrelevant. Northstar has the speed to manouever travelling at mutiple mach speed along the street, how fast do you think Wolverine was travelling nowhere near the speed of sound and Northstar cant react? 🤨 Helll he should have been able to react when Wolverine was in mid-air especially since Northstar has pawned Sabretooth.

Northstar "pwned Sabretooth" by tackling him through a forrest from behind after Sabretooth fought Juggernaught and got blown up by gambit..... That's hardly a suitable example of anything... and there you go again.. IGNORING CONTEXT.

Originally posted by jinzin
Okay Alf I'm going to hold your hand here as I take you through a little journey I like to call.. Linear time.

You and Battlehammer were discussing DD having stood up to a mind controlled Wolverine in an attempt to discredit Logan's superior fighting ability to Blade as being a factor in this fight. When Battlehammer argued the mind control you responded with this.

The implication? Not only were Logan's skills in fighting ability NOT effected, but he even had upgrades to help him fight! 😱

The truth? Wolverine's skills were affected and he had no upgrades to help him in h2h fights.

When Battlehammer asked you if you read the issues because you were presenting Northstar's death without context, you got upset and insisted that it wasn't the kind of info you could just find on the net. Cresh proved you wrong there too, the fact that it was Northstar who was actually upgraded instead of Wolverine just goes to show that you either didn't read the books and DID get the info off the net, read the books but didn't comprehend what was actually being stated, or have the books, understood them, and still choose to misrepresent the material.

And why? Because you represented Wolverine having upgrades in a notion that his "upgrades" had anything to do with fighting skill. They didn't.

Lol your making excuse for Creshock and you dont even know what we were discussing. Read what Creshock said.

Originally posted by Creshosk
The implication that you were giving off was simply that it could not be googled. I proved otherwise. Now if you quote me where I said that you hadn't read the issue then I'll gladly call you a liar... but since that is not my argument then I really don't need to persue the argument in that direction.

lmao Do you get it now? What upgrades were used were never up for debate its wether it could be googled or not and the fact of the matter is the info cant be googled because i said.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Northstar said Wolverine had upgrades in Wolverine issue 28

BUT Cresh said.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Its Northstar whom Northstar said was upgraded.

He....still....has...not....found.....any...evidence.....to....say.....that.....Northstar said that Wolverine had upgrades which is what Northstar said, Northstar said he had upgrades but he said Wolverine had upgrades as well. Get it? When I was discussing with Battlehammer the type of upgrades were mentioned not with Cresh.

Originally posted by jinzin

Northstar's upgraded abilities are flat out stated. Wolverine was said to have tech. And that's all that's present the entire arc. Nice shot in the dark though.

LOl but you stated that Northstar had phsyical upgrades because thats what he said in issue 28 and what Cresh said. LOL if your going to assume that Northstar has had physical upgrades then you have to assume that Wolverine had as well, stop the double standards. You also keep denying that what North said.

Originally posted by jinzin

THAT IS THE POINT... How do your fighting skills have to retain a level 7 when you're trying to hit a less agile, slower, bigger opponent who's holding up a bunch of crap?

Wolverine took him down easily because he has weapons that can one shot any vulnerable brick who doesn't have a healing factor. Him hitting Thing in the chest is not a feat of skill. It's a feat of speed not so much that of skill. And it makes sense considering his physicality wasn't changed. His mental stability was.

He was holding up a bunch of crap for the whole fight?????? You just dont get it if his fighting skills were effected by the brainwashing he wouldnt be a level 7 in H2H would he???? Things has taken on Namor underwater and Blackbolt he shoudl damn well be able to put up a good fight against Wolverine even if hes not brainwashed.

Originally posted by jinzin

1. Already gave you evidence and you ignored it.. anything to discredit Logan.
2. No it's not. It's the exact reason why Northstar got tagged. Northstar is behind Kitty. His field of vision is inhibited and he's worried for his teammate thinking she's the one who's threatened no him, she phases he gets tagged. CIS at play, not some crazy physical superfast upgrades that you just now fanticized for Logan in order to discredit him.

How the hell is Kitty going to block Northstars vision when Wolverine jumped he was above her head AND Northstar is taller than her. haermm

Originally posted by jinzin

Northstar "pwned Sabretooth" by tackling him through a forrest from behind after Sabretooth fought Juggernaught and got blown up by gambit..... That's hardly a suitable example of anything... and there you go again.. IGNORING CONTEXT.

Fair enough but you know what. Northstar >>>>> Wolverine in speed unles evidence is given.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lol your making excuse for Creshock and you dont even know what we were discussing. Read what Creshock said.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
lmao Do you get it now? What upgrades were used were never up for debate its wether it could be googled or not and the fact of the matter is the info cant be googled because i said.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He....still....has...not....found.....any...evidence.....to....say.....that.....Northstar said that Wolverine had upgrades which is what Northstar said, Northstar said he had upgrades [B]but he said Wolverine had upgrades as well. Get it? When I was discussing with Battlehammer the type of upgrades were mentioned not with Cresh. [/B]

Cresh interupted your discussion with battlehammer, it stands to reason that the implications you made in that discussion influenced his interpretation of what you were trying to convey.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOl but you stated that Northstar had phsyical upgrades because thats what he said in issue 28 and what Cresh said. LOL if your going to assume that Northstar has had physical upgrades then you have to assume that Wolverine had as well, stop the double standards. You also keep denying that what North said.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He was holding up a bunch of crap for the whole fight?????? You just dont get it if his fighting skills were effected by the brainwashing he wouldnt be a level 7 in H2H would he???? Things has taken on Namor underwater and Blackbolt he shoudl damn well be able to put up a good fight against Wolverine even if hes not brainwashed.

Because Thing has fought characters that don't have Wolverine's attributes Thing should be able to fight Wolverine?

Yeah... Logical.. 🙄

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
How the hell is Kitty going to block Northstars vision when Wolverine jumped he was above her head AND Northstar is taller than her. haermm

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Fair enough but you know what. Northstar >>>>> Wolverine in speed unles evidence is given.

But that's so like you to confuse the issues that you yourself bring up.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Still trying to see how any one in there right mind think blade wins.

Logan holds all the advantages.

Blade no superior in a single aspect.

Hell Logan has rogues who are pritty much Blade on steriods.

Information that doesn't exist, can't be googled. I'll concede that evidence of Phantom Zone's arguments can't be found anywhere that includes in the comic books.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Hey Jinzin check this out

Logic check: SHIELD can't capture Wolveirne, but SHIELD can capture people who can capture Wolverine?

Return: Odds are anyone whom SHIELD can capture, can't capture Wolverine, since SHIELD can't capture wolverine.
Wolverine>SHIELD> Whomever SHIELD captures.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
..the only reason blade was captured is because he didnt want to harm the siheld agents, they were human blade doesnt kill human, however notice when the ywere vampires he was able to take out an entire hellicarrier filled wit hshield agents

Wolverine>SHIELD> Whomever SHIELD captures.

Originally posted by Creshosk
CIS is not exempt from the fights on these forums.

Wolverine>SHIELD> Whomever SHIELD captures.

except that whe nshield agents are vampires (thus making thme stronger/faster/more durable than regular sield agents) blade has been hown to take them out no problem

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
..the only reason blade was captured is because he didnt want to harm the siheld agents, they were human blade doesnt kill human, however notice when the ywere vampires he was able to take out an entire hellicarrier filled wit hshield agents

No Mentioning Events of PIS
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

Wolverine>SHIELD> Whomever SHIELD captures.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm

Wolverine>SHIELD> Whomever SHIELD captures.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
except for the fact he took out an entire hellicarrier full of them when they were vampires

Without comprehending what I'm saying you can't possibly be right.

Originally posted by jinzin
I read EXACTLY what Chresh said, what you're failing to understand is WHY he said what he said... Hint: It's due to YOUR insinuations.

Um no, they WERE up for debate since you implied that they somehow had some influence on the outcome of his fights or his fighting ability.

Why would he need evidence of that when that was YOUR argument?

Cresh interupted your discussion with battlehammer, it stands to reason that the implications you made in that discussion influenced his interpretation of what you were trying to convey.

No it doesnt your justy making excuses for him because you think he always right. Again this is what hes saying. The argument is that the information cant be found not what type of upgrades they were, now hes trying to say that its not even said in the comicbook.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Information that doesn't exist, can't be googled. I'll concede that evidence of Phantom Zone's arguments can't be found anywhere that includes in the comic books.

Get Wolverine issue 28 now! This is what Northstar says word for word.

Northstar: OH, THEY GAVE ME LOTS OF LITTLE UPGRADES, JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH WOLVERINE. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOVE SOME OF THE STUFF I'M PACKING NOW.

Am I wrong? Do you even have the issue?

Originally posted by jinzin

I'm not assuming anything. Northstar outright talks about how the hand made him faster among other things. Wolverine? He got bupkis. Why? because they captured Wolverine THEN used Wolverine to steal tech to do that.
He never had anything outside of a lousy "jumper" and cloaking device. You're the only one who thinks otherwise. And why not? As long as you have another innane chance to discredit Loges.

So i other words tech is not an upgrade is it? Did Northstar say this or not?

Northstar: OH, THEY GAVE ME LOTS OF LITTLE UPGRADES, JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH WOLVERINE. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOVE SOME OF THE STUFF I'M PACKING NOW.

Originally posted by jinzin

He was when Wolverine ran up the tube line ans stabbed his ass.. Context context context....

Doesnt look like hes working on anything there. Looks like to me he tried to smash him over the head with equipment.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10159117

Originally posted by jinzin

Because Thing has fought characters that don't have Wolverine's attributes Thing should be able to fight Wolverine?

EXCUSE ME. You telling me that Wolverine can take Namor underwater???? 🤨 He would get stomped! If Thing can take Namor underwater he can damn well give Wolverine a good fight.

Namor underwater >>>>>>> Wolverine.
Yeah... Logical.. 🙄

Originally posted by jinzin

She's in his way, Wolverine starts atop them he gets to head level by the time he reaches Kitty, Northstars view of depth from Wolverine was skewed.. CONTEXT.

You just explained it right there. 😆 Northstar was right behind her hell when he got stabbed he was less than an arms length in distance....read the comic for godsake....and is significantly taller than her. If Wolverine jumped above her headline Northstar would have seen him.

Not only that Wolverine had his arms outstretched and Kittys body did not block his view. Kitty is not big bertha!

Originally posted by jinzin

No one's arguing against that. 😕

But that's so like you to confuse the issues that you yourself bring up.

Yeah yeah yeah. Get me Wolmverine issue 28 now! Did Northstar say this or not. Thats what he says word for word.....no.

Northstar: OH, THEY GAVE ME LOTS OF LITTLE UPGRADES, JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH WOLVERINE. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOVE SOME OF THE STUFF I'M PACKING NOW.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Information that doesn't exist, can't be googled. I'll concede that evidence of Phantom Zone's arguments can't be found anywhere that includes in the comic books.

Ok since your such a badass lets make a deal get Wolverine issue 28 right now. If he says this word for word get the hell of the forum and dont comeback.

Northstar: OH, THEY GAVE ME LOTS OF LITTLE UPGRADES, JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH WOLVERINE. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOVE SOME OF THE STUFF I'M PACKING NOW.

Time of the month, again, I see.

Northstar regained his light powers.

I'll post the one panel where Northstar says "just like they did with Wolverine" if you can post however many panels there are during the arc where Wolverine uses nondescript upgrades in a fight to advantage him, while his fighting skills are unaffected by mind-control, during the arc as you implied, specifying what exactly the upgrade was and how it was advantageous.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok since your such a badass lets make a deal get Wolverine issue 28 right now. If he says this word for word get the hell of the forum and dont comeback.

Northstar: OH, THEY GAVE ME LOTS OF LITTLE UPGRADES, JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH WOLVERINE. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOVE SOME OF THE STUFF I'M PACKING NOW.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Time of the month, again, I see.

Northstar regained his light powers.

I'll post the one panel where Northstar says "just like they did with Wolverine" if you can post however many panels there are during the arc where Wolverine uses nondescript upgrades in a fight to advantage him, while his fighting skills are unaffected by mind-control, during the arc as you implied, specifying what exactly the upgrade was and how it was advantageous.

1. The issue was not even what type of upgrades they were, the issue when discussing with Cresh is wether he said it or not. He did.

2. Jinzin deduced that Wolverine had physical upgrades due to what Northstar said in that issue.

3. He was able to take out Northstar and Thing easily so it could be argued that Hydra made him faster. It may not have been but its a reasonable stance to take.