Originally posted by starlock
I can respect MR Masters when he says it was a supreme power, but when was it proven it was TOAA's Power? it is an assumption that has never been proven(if it has point me to it)...i understand if people assume it is....but i need proof 😉
There is a scan on panel which it says he is GOD, he has the power of Almighty, the one who is everything. The power for whom nothing should be impossible. Also Eternity says to Thanos to give up the supreme power. And then he also punks the Marvel Universe like nothing, so there you go. There are surely scan on this forum. I am sure that someone here can put them up and show you. It's no an assumption.
There are more quotes in the comics about him having the supreme power (Marvel Universe - The End #5).
Originally posted by Xplosive
There is a scan on panel which it says he is GOD, he has the power of Almighty, the one who is everything. The power for whom nothing should be impossible. Also Eternity says to Thanos to give up the supreme power. And then he also punks the Marvel Universe like nothing, so there you go. There are surely scan on this forum. I am sure that someone here can put them up and show you. It's no an assumption.There are more quotes in the comics about him having the supreme power (Marvel Universe - The End #5).
I agree...and i have seen these scans and i have read the comic...but where is the proof?
When a poster sums up his view with "there you go" i expect proof, not assumptions...where is it stated...show me and i will gladly apologize
Show me a scan stating thanos had The One Above All's Power...that would be proof enough...not the power being called supreme....not that thanos was tricked by a supreme power...not the power for whom nothing should be impossible....not thanos punking the MU
Don't you think even if its true...that the purpose of the writer was to intentionally to leave it out...i mean it is simple to just add the words in the story...if the writers are purposely leaving it out....who are you to tell me with certainty that it was TOAA's power...it is your opinon nothing more...and it might be that a majority believe it is so....it does not change the fact that there is no proof
And i am not here to upset or disrespect you in any way...i rather like your debating here, so no hard feelings 🙂
Originally posted by Xplosive
Nah.
"This Being was the only Living Thing that Existed within Any and ALL Realities"
"It ALL That Was and ALL that Was, Was it "
Then Thanos says,
"I wouldn't blame you for calling it GOD ...
What other name would fit?"
(which makes sense)
................................................................................
"ALL That Was, Was already Part of Itself ... there was NO Other in it's Life"
"It chose to put an End to itself ...
from it's Ashes rose ALL That is currently Reality ... in ALL it's many forms"
................................................................................
Diana of the Dark Shoppe (from another Multiverse) basically tells the same tale:
"Many Millennia ago in your Universe, (the Prime Multiverse that is)
there was a God with the power of Infinity,
even with control of ALL that is,
the God's loneliness could not be soothed, by his own hand he died"
................................................................................
The Infinity Being is still that Entity that was once the ONLY Sentience in all of Marvel,
until it committed suicide cause it had no peers.
.............................................................................
And This Truth, has NEVER been retconned:
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Infinity_Gems
"The Infinity Gems ...
Each one allows its owner complete Omnipotence ...
wielded together, nothing is impossible for their bearer ...
The Gems were actually once part of the primordial entity Nemesis,
who, eons ago,
ended its existence rather than live as the ONLY sentience in the Universe."
.............................................................................
In fact,
Marvel.com states the Infinity Gauntlet grants,
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Infinity_Gauntlet_%28item%29
Powers: "Absolute Omnipotence when the Gems are used altogether"
.............................................................................
=================================
The IG alone makes one "God" (absolute Omnipotence) beneath the LT,
and that's just a partial demonstration of the Infinity Being. ====
=================================
Originally posted by XplosiveWith CB yes.
For reasons proven above.
Originally posted by XplosiveThat is why it can be a debate.
Perhaps you should try the rest of my post below you left out:
Originally posted by Mr MasterThe Beyonder was created by Shooter,
to be another "God" separate from the one associated with the Marvel Universe.In fact,
Beyonder's Multiverse was completely disconnected from the prime Marvel Multiverse,
so hence, the Beyonder's reality was like another company withIN Marvel.(best way I can explain it by paraphrasing Shooter's own words)
.............................................................................
Jim Shooter - creator/writer of Secret Wars/Beyonder
(while he was Editor in chief of Marvel)
Get's interviewed ... about the Beyonder.
.............................................................................
Marvel Age is an official Marvel title, created to strictly discuss Marvel stories,
and other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.
.............................................................................
Jim Shooter himself describes classic Beyonder:
Jim states:
1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."
2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."
3. Beyonder's discovery of "our Universe ...
.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...
.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "
Originally posted by XplosiveStill no. He is not absolute like THOTI (in terms of power), the power of TOAA. THOTI would probably still make out of IB like he did with everyone else,
no matter what IB achieved and made.
Nothing can compare to THOTI in terms of absolute.
Well, now with the proof I presented, you know the facts.
The Infinity Being was absolute, as absolute as one can get.
Originally posted by XplosiveIB was creted by TOAA and was given some kind of a job
(to create Marvel Omniverse)
Because that's never been stated, and/or depicted anywhere, ever.
In fact,
it was I who speculated that TOAA used the Infinity Being as his creation tool,
but there'a NO proof of that in any comic or bio.
Originally posted by Xplosiveexcept if IB literally had the power of TOAA like Thanos,
or was only empowered
or of course created to do his job and to be what he was in the previous,
but was never stated like with THOTI), Thanos had his power.
And btw. ... Thanos had the power of TOAA withIN the Omniverse,
but Thanos did NOT have the power of Toaa/God's avatars,
Toaa/God's avatars (FF#511) create and draw everything that takes place On Panel,
including LT/Thanos/THOTI/IB and anything else.
Again, as depicted/stated On Panel above:
The Infinity Being was the only individual Sentience in all Creation,
every other particle in existence was part of the Infinity Being,
the Infinity Being was God absolute and only in the previous Universe.
Originally posted by XplosiveAnd IB was actually ended.
The Infinity Being committed suicide, it ended itself!
Thanos destroyed THOTI.
So, it's the same outcome for both.
Originally posted by XplosiveBut we can debate that they pretty much have an equal feat
(except that THOTI destroyed the opposition)
As far as equal feats are concerned, No way friend.
Beyonder has the greatest feat ever in Marvel under his belt.
Beyonder created a Universe,
that was infinitely bigger than the prime Multiverse,
and,
was Millions of times more powerful than all the combined power in the prime Multiverse.
To this day,
ALL the Cosmic hierarchal power of Marvel is concentrated withIN the Prime Multiverse.
Originally posted by Xplosivebut logical tells us that in a battle THOTI would prevail,
because no one can challenge TOAA.
That is about TOAA, trully omnipotent, no matter how powerful someone is, Protege, SW, Scathan, especially LT, they seem truly omnipotent,
but when TOAA comes, everything else becomes insignificant
(like proven with THOTI).
TOAA/God created and drew the HOTI on a piece of paper,
and made a story out of it called "The End: Marvel"
Again, THOTI is Toaa/God's power withIN the Omniverse,
but THOTI does not literally make one Toaa/God situated in "Marvel heaven."
Originally posted by starlockbut where is the proof?
Show me a scan stating thanos had The One Above All's Power...
that would be proof enough...who are you to tell me with certainty that it was TOAA's power...
it is your opinon nothing more...and it might be that a majority believe it is so....it does not change the fact that there is no proof
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - LT - bio)
"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"
......................................................................................
Logic dictates that ONLY TOAA or a power = to or superior could defeat the LT:
LT gets stomped!
......................................................................................
The rest of this evidence below,
simply solidifies the scans right above:
..................................................................................................
Thanos says:
"Eternity, you must sense that Everything the Almighty was I now am,
[/i]did you ever dare demand anything from Him[/i]"
Eternity responds,
"No, but" .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)
..................................................................................................
"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ...
my Will is Supreme"
noneyes
.............................................................................
Like I said, it was also confirmed in official handbook Bios:
"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...
.............................................................................
THOTI is:
"The Source from which all other power throughout Time & Space springs"
.............................................................................
It made Thanos "SUPREME"
.............................................................................
It made Thanos Everything ... of All things in the Marvel Omniverse:
................................................................................
"How dare these cretins defy their Supreme Being?
Was I not Now the End-All and Be-All of Reality?
Their very existence was by My Whim"
...............................................................................
Indeed!
"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"
................................................................................
................................................................................
If you still think this isn't sufficient evidence,
that's fine.
But imo, this is an insurmountable amount of undeniable proof.
Originally posted by Mr Master
(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - LT - bio)"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"
......................................................................................
Logic dictates that ONLY TOAA or a power = to or superior could defeat the LT:
LT gets stomped!
......................................................................................
The rest of this evidence below,
simply solidifies the scans right above:..................................................................................................
Thanos says:
"Eternity, you must sense that [B]Everything the Almighty was I now am
,[/i]did you ever dare demand anything from Him[/i]"
Eternity responds,
"No, but" .... (Eternity is actually acknowledging that Thanos speaks the truth)
..................................................................................................
"And I, like He was, am now the Author of All That Will Be ...
my Will is Supreme"
noneyes
.............................................................................
Like I said, it was also confirmed in official handbook Bios:
"Thanos eradicated the Order, they ... Pronounced him GOD" ...
.............................................................................
THOTI is:
"The Source from which all other power throughout Time & Space springs"
.............................................................................
It made Thanos "SUPREME"
.............................................................................
It made Thanos Everything ... of All things in the Marvel Omniverse:
................................................................................
"How dare these cretins defy their Supreme Being?
Was I not Now the End-All and Be-All of Reality?
Their very existence was by My Whim"
...............................................................................
Indeed!
"I was Everything ... bonded to Omni-Reality"
................................................................................
................................................................................
If you still think this isn't sufficient evidence,
that's fine.But imo, this is an insurmountable amount of undeniable proof. [/B]
Sorry, but with all due respect, it is not what i asked for, and it is only evidence for an assumption, it is not definitive proof.... only an opinon...thats all
Originally posted by starlockSorry, but with all due respect, it is not what i asked for,
and it is only evidence for an assumption, it is not definitive proof....
only an opinon...thats all
I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?
Originally posted by Mr Master(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook 2006 - LT - bio)
"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"
......................................................................................
Logic dictates that ONLY TOAA or a power = to or superior to TOAA could defeat the LT:
LT being defeated easily.
......................................................................................
And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has?
Originally posted by Mr MasterGod?:
As you wish. That's your honest opinion and I'll respect that. 🙂I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?We [B]know
Thanos has "someone's" power,
there's no denying that, I'm sure you'll agree.And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has? [/B]
mmm
======
Originally posted by Mr Master
As you wish. That's your honest opinion and I'll respect that. 🙂I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?We [B]know
Thanos has "someone's" power,
there's no denying that, I'm sure you'll agree.And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has? [/B]
To be fair, i can see your point...but the fact that LT's only superior is TOAA, does not make the HOTU his power...does that make the Beyonder TOAA's power? just because we have seen a power that clearly defeated LT does not mean its the proof we need
I have a question also...If a writer goes out of his way to not use the words TOAA......and i would think you would agree that its on purpose, than is not the writer purposely leaving it unknown....and if so who are we to say that it is TOAA's power?
This is not a versus match were we can come together and debate an outcome, where appearences are scanned and used to see an outcome and try and sway peoples opinon...... its about definitive proof it was TOAA's power...which noone has produced.....i have no problem with someone saying they have an opinon it is TOAA's power
Originally posted by Mr Master
As you wish. That's your honest opinion and I'll respect that. 🙂I'd like to know something though,
what do you make of this?We [B]know
Thanos has "someone's" power,
there's no denying that, I'm sure you'll agree.And if according to Marvel,
the ONLY power above the Living Tribunal's is TOAA's,
who's power do you believe Thanos has? [/B]
for all we know it could be the power of some punk kid from the 31st century he was above the LT as was scathan
(some theorise he was acting on behalf of tooa)
Originally posted by xjustice69x
for all we know it could be the power of some punk kid from the 31st century he was above the LT as was scathan
(some theorise he was acting on behalf of tooa)
Protege.....i see your point...which is...we dont have definitive proof on panel or in a handbook who's power it was....and i am sorry Galaan but common sense is not the right tool to work on this problem..it is flawed 😉
Originally posted by starlockTo be fair, i can see your point...
Originally posted by starlockbut the fact that LT's only superior is TOAA,
does not make the HOTU his power...
just because we have seen a power that clearly defeated LT
does not mean its the proof we need
Originally posted by starlockdoes that make the Beyonder TOAA's power?
The Beyonder (according to Shooter description of him)
would've been completely disconnected from Toaa and his creation,
because the Beyonder was a "God" unto himself,
because Beyonder existed separated from the Marvel Universe in his own Reality,
because Beyonder existed before the "God" of the Marvel Universe started Genesis.
Shooter had considered the Marvel Universe ... "Our Universe" (as in yours and mine)
So,
basically the answer to your question is, no, because of said reasons above.
Originally posted by starlockI have a question also...
If a writer goes out of his way to not use the words TOAA......
and i would think you would agree that its on purpose,
than is not the writer purposely leaving it unknown....
and if so who are we to say that it is TOAA's power?
The Supreme Being of Marvel is TOAA
And again,
Marvel clearly states in their Handbooks that ONLY TOAA>LT
THOTI>LT
Originally posted by starlockThis is not a versus match were we can come together and debate an outcome,
where appearences are scanned and used to see an outcome
and try and sway peoples opinon......
its about definitive proof it was TOAA's power...which noone has produced.....
Originally posted by starlocki have no problem with someone saying they have an opinon it is TOAA's power
To be fair, if its stated that LT has no superior other than the mysterious TOAA, only for a power to come along and trump his, that doesn't automatically make that power TOAA's.
Logic would dictate that it is. You're right in saying that Mr Master. Thats a reasonable assumption to make, however that is ALL it is. An assumption.
It is NOT canon fact that the HOTI is the supreme beings power. LT doesn't recognise it as such on panel and his power is said to stem from TOAA's. No bio in existence recognises it as such.
Thanos said on panel that he was god with this power. He said that he was the supreme being. Whilst he was undoutably vastly powerful and more so than any being he faced, that does not equate to him ACTUALLY being the supreme being.
As far as we know for a fact. Thanos gained power that made him more powerful than just about any being Marvel has ever shown. Supreme power within reality? ✅
THE supreme being? Not necessarily 😬
Originally posted by xjustice69xfor all we know
it could be the power of some punk kid from the 31st century
he was above the LT
as was scathan
(some theorise he was acting on behalf of tooa)
Because on panel,
Protege copied the LT's power,
but Protege never confronted the LT, Protege never defeated the LT.
(so I can't see how THOTI is Protege's power)
Scathan muzzled amped Protege, making Protege ineffective.
the LT had the final judgement, even directing Scathan,
the LT was the one that absorbed Protege.
Btw. Protege had been absorbed nearly 10 years before "The End: Marvel"
Phoenixs power was said to be second only to TOAA's, does that mean a Shiar canon was channeling the power of TOAA?
No it means Phoenix got taken out by a Shiar canon.
Things change. No character or hierarchy is set in stone. LT said he has no superior other than TOAA. Subsequently a comic came out where he got stomped.
It would be understandable for people to ASSUME that this power was then TOAA's, however that assumption is not fact, as the point was never verified by an official source. It could just be the case that the hierarchy got revised once again. 😬
Not saying that IS the case, saying that could be. See what i did there? I'm admitting i dont know for a fact, therefore im not going to treat my speculation or assumption as fact in a debate where fact should reign supreme. 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStormTo be fair, if its stated that LT has no superior other than the mysterious TOAA, only for a power to come along and trump his,
that doesn't automatically make that power TOAA's.
Originally posted by GalacticStormLogic would dictate that it is. You're right in saying that Mr Master.
Thats a reasonable assumption to make, however that is ALL it is.
An assumption.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIt is NOT canon fact that the HOTI is the supreme beings power.
LT doesn't recognise it as such on panel
and his power is said to stem from TOAA's.
Thanos erased the LT and all of Time-Space (all reality/all existence)
ONLY TOAA > LT
THOTI > LT
That's my opinion (if we can call it an opinion)
and nothing's gonna change that,
unless there's on panel proof that says otherwise.
Originally posted by GalacticStormNo bio in existence recognises it as such.
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos
" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...
... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "
Originally posted by GalacticStormThanos said on panel that he was god with this power.
He said that he was the supreme being.
Originally posted by GalacticStormWhilst he was undoutably vastly powerful and more so than any being he faced, that does not equate to him ACTUALLY being the supreme being.
As far as we know for a fact. Thanos gained power that made him more powerful than just about any being Marvel has ever shown.
Supreme power within reality?THE supreme being? Not necessarily
But,
I disagree on the other point,
according to the plethora of evidence, Thanos was the Supreme Being.
Originally posted by GalacticStormPhoenixs power was said to be second only to TOAA's,
does that mean a Shiar canon was channeling the power of TOAA?No it means Phoenix got taken out by a Shiar canon.
Phoenix has never created even a single universe on panel,
Phoenix has never destroyed more than a single Universe twice, both times in "What If" issues.
Phoenix has never defeated Eternity or Infinity let alone the Living Tribunal.
So you're right on one thing,
there really is absolute NO reason whatsoever,
why Phoenix would ever be thought to be "second to TOAA"
Unlike THOTI, which did erase all of Space-Time,
did absorb the entire Hierarchy including the Living Tribunal,
did re-create all existence/reality in Space-Time including the LT.
Big, I mean big difference,
between unsupported Phoenix hyperbole,
and what THOTI literally did On Panel.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThings change. No character or hierarchy is set in stone.
LT said he has no superior other than TOAA.
Subsequently a comic came out where he got stomped.It would be understandable for people to ASSUME that this power was then TOAA's, however that assumption is not fact, as the point was never verified by an official source. It could just be the case that the hierarchy got revised once again.
That was never, has never,
and still hasn't come even remotely close to being a plausibility?
😂 You got jokes.
Originally posted by GalacticStormNot saying that IS the case, saying that could be. See what i did there? I'm admitting i dont know for a fact, therefore im not going to treat my speculation or assumption as fact in a debate where fact should reign supreme.
Fact: THOTI > LT
Yall decide what that means.
Originally posted by Galan007God?
mmm
Originally posted by starlockProtege.....i see your point...which is...
we dont have definitive proof on panel
or in a handbook who's power it was...
Protege has absolutely nothing to with THOTI or the events in "The End: Marvel"
Protege was erased from existence 9 years prior.
Also, Protege never proved to be above the LT,
neither did Scathan.
Of course theres room for interpretation, the point isnt verified by any official source.
Hierarchy changes regularly in comics. Because LT said he was second to only God, does not mean that in subsequent comics where he was defeated that the power Thanos wielded was Gods.
It could mean that the hierarchy changed.
That is a possibility that cant be denied. The very fact that such a possibility exists is because there is no official verification of the point youre trying to make. Therefore there is very much room for interpretation.
Thanos claiming to be the supreme being and someone in his presence not disagreeing on panel, does not equate to agreement. It just means they said nothing.
On top of that Lower beings can be forgiven for not contradicting Thanos' assertions because as far as their comparatively limited perceptions allow them to know, the power Thanos wielded was supreme.
LT who works for TOAA made no such agreement. LT who abides by the power of TOAA stood against Thanos. 😬
The power Thanos wielded made him the supreme being of reality. That doesnt equate to the supreme being. Its different.
I'm quite certain that Eternity and his counterparts dont compose the sum of all that is Marvel.
You use Marvel.com when it suits your purpose, otherwise you condemn it as fan composed in cases where the site contradicts your argument 😬
Can you post some scans of Thanos' most recent bio stating whats said on that link please?
No selectively cropped paragraphs. Just throw in the whole thing, i've got good eyes 🙂
