RotS Mace Windu VS RotS Count Dooku

Started by Gideon14 pages

That was the world's longest concession. I'm not arguing this point, Nai, which is where I think you're deluding yourself. I simply asked for some evidence that proved your claim. You have failed to provide any. Which is fine, it doesn't really disprove your argument with Red Nemesis, but nowhere was Dooku under orders not to harm Anakin; particularly in light of the fact that he already dealt Skywalker a critical injury years earlier. Sidious was testing both of their skills without any of them being the wiser, his instruction to Dooku in Labyrinth of Evil being: "But above all, you must make the contest appear real."

Once more, on the subject of both Nick Gillard and visual guides, you don't get to pick what evidence to use and discard the rest. The bottom line is that if he is an authority on Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, he is an authority on the skills and power of Darth Sidious. It is not up for debate. And the visual guide says that he used the hologram to "regain the upper hand," another point you aren't free to argue.

But like I said, I'm not in this argument. Just needling you for clarification and pointing out, regardless of the outcome, I win.

Originally posted by Gideon
[B]That was the world's longest concession. I'm not arguing this point, Nai, which is where I think you're deluding yourself. I simply asked for some evidence that proved your claim. You have failed to provide any. Which is fine, it doesn't really disprove your argument with Red Nemesis, but nowhere was Dooku under orders not to harm Anakin; particularly in light of the fact that he already dealt Skywalker a critical injury years earlier. Sidious was testing both of their skills without any of them being the wiser, his instruction to Dooku in Labyrinth of Evil being: "But above all, you must make the contest appear real."

Was Dooku, operating according to the mentioned plan, allowed to defeat Skywalker?

[x]No.

Thanks. Everything else I stated follows directly from that point as Skywalker has to be in a condition to capture the Count. That clearly excludes any attempts of inflicting real damage to Anakin, because that would foil the plan more effectively than not "appearing real". Which means that even to come up with a contest that appears real, Anakin wouldn't be in a contest that is real. Small difference, great effect.


Once more, on the subject of both Nick Gillard and visual guides, you don't get to pick what evidence to use and discard the rest. The bottom line is that if he is an authority on Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, he is an authority on the skills and power of Darth Sidious. It is not up for debate. And the visual guide says that he used the hologram to "regain the upper hand," another point you aren't free to argue.

🙄

Sometimes I wonder if you are really that incapable of actual reasoning. Every single claim of a source can be threated differently. So yes. You can pick evidence regarding a specific issue and ignore the same source on others if you have reasons to do so.

As I said before: If there is verification of a statement made by a specific source or you have reason to thrust said source, you can probably thrust it. With Nick Gillard you have somebody that stated that specific lightsaber forms don't even exists. So quoting him on lightsaber forms would be self-contradiction at it's best.

That aside, I can even threat the same statement differently in different debates. Another thing you haven't understood yet, despite I lectured you on the issue god knows how often. Maybe you should start studying basic philosophy before getting into arguments, hmm?

And what? Of course I'm free to argue the visual guide because it interprets canon material and isn't canon material itself. It can't establish anything, because it's just meta-material dealing with the stuff that canonically happened. And in this special case, the statement from the visual guide simply doesn't make any sense.

But like I said, I'm not in this argument. Just needling you for clarification and pointing out, regardless of the outcome, I win.

And I'm just pointing out that, regardless of what you do, you fail. Which is quite astonishing, considering you should actually have the brain cells to do better. Or was that my "error in judgement" you mentioned earlier?

Dooku can't be superior to Mace. Otherwise:

Dooku > Mace

Obi Wan > Anakin

Anakin > Dooku

Mace > Sidious

Sidious = Yoda

so...

Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda

...

Edited. Let's try this again.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Dooku can't be superior to Mace. Otherwise:

Dooku > Mace

Obi Wan > Anakin

Anakin > Dooku

Mace > Sidious

Sidious = Yoda

so...

Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda

...

A>B>C arguments. One must love them...

Mace > Sidious
Anakin > Mace (sort off)
Obi-Wan > Anakin
Dooku > Obi-Wan

so...

Dooku > Obi-Wan > Anakin > Mace > Sidious = Yoda

Yeah. That appears to make much sense. Not.

Originally posted by Nai
Was Dooku, operating according to the mentioned plan, allowed to defeat Skywalker?

[x]No.

Was that your contention?

[x]No.

Thanks.

You're welcome.

Everything else I stated follows directly from that point as Skywalker has to be in a condition to capture the Count. That clearly excludes any attempts of inflicting real damage to Anakin, because that would foil the plan more effectively than not "appearing real". Which means that even to come up with a contest that appears real, Anakin wouldn't be in a contest that is real. Small difference, great effect.

Guess you missed the part where I said I wasn't arguing this point and that I was needling you for information? I realize that English isn't your native language, Nai, but really. This is no excuse to completely gloss over certain excerpts of information. For your benefit, I'll post it again:

Originally posted by Gideon
But like I said, I'm not in this argument. Just needling you for clarification and pointing out, regardless of the outcome, I win.
Sometimes I wonder if you are really that incapable of actual reasoning.

Well, since you remark on the ability of my braincells later in your diatribe, I'd have to say we both are completely aware of my phenomenal reasoning skills. That is, of course, why you went from fellating both the ancient Sith and Count Dooku to becoming my lackey and grudgingly accepting the fact that Sidious is the greatest of them all. Occasionally, yes, you try to disagree to assert your nonexistent autonomy, but let's be clear, Nai: it's all a farce. We've waged our little battles here and there for years, but the outcome has always been the same. I win. That's why I'm here, and that's why you crawl back to EoD time and time again.

Yes, we all predict the inevitable attempt on your part to be witty, and I'm sure your mastery of words might allow you some notion of humor back in German, but here, your wit is quite literally lost in the translation.

Every single claim of a source can be threated differently. So yes. You can pick evidence regarding a specific issue and ignore the same source on others if you have reasons to do so.

As I said before: If there is verification of a statement made by a specific source or you have reason to thrust said source, you can probably thrust it. With Nick Gillard you have somebody that stated that specific lightsaber forms don't even exists. So quoting him on lightsaber forms would be self-contradiction at it's best.

That aside, I can even threat the same statement differently in different debates. Another thing you haven't understood yet, despite I lectured you on the issue god knows how often. Maybe you should start studying basic philosophy before getting into arguments, hmm?

And what? Of course I'm free to argue the visual guide because it interprets canon material and isn't canon material itself. It can't establish anything, because it's just meta-material dealing with the stuff that canonically happened. And in this special case, the statement from the visual guide simply doesn't make any sense.

Once again, you're not at liberty to pick and choose what is valid and what isn't. If Nick Gillard is a valued source on Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi in terms of swordsmanship, the same applies for his thoughts on Darth Sidious. You'll have to do much better, Nai, than this.

And I'm just pointing out that, regardless of what you do, you fail.

Nonsense. My victory over you has lasted for years. You come, you fail, you retreat. Rinse and repeat. As in the case of other failed narcissists, you learn neither humility nor reason and persist in coming here hurling insults in your arguments. We don't tolerate this anymore, Nai. Convert or be cast out; those are your only options.

Which is quite astonishing, considering you should actually have the brain cells to do better. Or was that my "error in judgement" you mentioned earlier?

No, those would be within your career of fellating Count Dooku (his superiority over his feared Master was one note of hilarity), the ancient Sith, and eventually Luke Skywalker's feats for TUF.

We're done, Nai. As I said, this isn't an argument I'm involved in. You made an ambiguous claim and I felt it my duty to prod you for information. You failed to provide. Now, go lick your wounds elsewhere. This is my final post on the subject.

Originally posted by Borbarad
A>B>C arguments. One must love them...

Mace > Sidious
Anakin > Mace (sort off)
Obi-Wan > Anakin
Dooku > Obi-Wan

so...

Dooku > Obi-Wan > Anakin > Mace > Sidious = Yoda

Yeah. That appears to make much sense. Not.

How is Anakin > Mace? That was a surprise attack and the two weren't fighting/Mace wasn't excepting it.

He was being sarcastic. For him, it's a coping mechanism to deal with his many defeats.

Anakin > Dooku = Mace

Why doesn't A > B >C work? Is this rock paper siscors or something? If Mace can beat Sidious but can't beat Dooku, then Dooku supporters are claiming that Dooku > Sidious. Soo....

Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda > Dooku (he was beating him in the duel) > Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku...

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Why doesn't A > B >C work? Is this rock paper siscors or something?

Nope.

If Mace can beat Sidious but can't beat Dooku,

He can beat Dooku.

then Dooku supporters are claiming that Dooku > Sidious. Soo....

And they're right. Dooku will beat Sidious. Nai will show you.

Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda > Dooku (he was beating him in the duel) > Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku...

It hurts... make it stop...

That's the worst one I've ever seen. Hands down.

Originally posted by Eminence
That's the worst one I've ever seen. Hands down.

That's what she said (to you). Oh snap!

In reference to a pic I showed her of your face.

Originally posted by Eminence
In reference to a pic I showed her of your face.

Damn.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nope.

He can beat Dooku.

And they're right. Dooku will beat Sidious. Nai will show you.

It hurts... make it stop...

I know, I think that Mace can beat Dooku. That's what I'm trying to "prove".

Is that sarcasm?

Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda > Dooku (he was beating him in the duel) > Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda > Dooku > Obi Wan >Anakin > Dooku > Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda > Dooku > Obi Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Sidious = Yoda > Dooku > Obi Wan >Anakin > Dooku

BuhBLAM.

I have a question:

Are these threads ever resolved? At the end of a thread the guys are still arguing and neither side gives up. Heck, they seem to just argue over and over in circles. But then again it's not supposed to be resolved...

You just figured that out ?

Everyone gets it eventually. Our method of culling members is brilliant.