TPM Maul vs ROTS Kenobi

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Oh, please. Maul also had a double blade lightsaber that would prove as more of an advantage than a disadvantage; don't use the fact that he had a longer hilt as a reason why it was cut by Obi-Wan, because I can say that Qui-Gon lost DUE to him having a longer hilt. But yeah, w/e.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

We can never tell what would happen if Maul had striked him with a saber, but I doubt Obi-Wan wouldn't have a counter. .

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Oh, god no. Just not the 'He had to survive!!!!1" arguments again. People say that all the time... Yoda was stronger than Sidious but Sid had to survive, Mace had to die, etc.. it's stupid. .

well its true.. thats the only reason Obi1 was taken out by a Push into a hole, whilst his Master who was greater than him was taken out by a blade..

Its not stupid... how could you have Obi1 die in the prequels?? please explain?? the fact is Maul had an opening.. there may have been 5 or 6 different ways he could have taken that opening, but in a split second decision he chose a Force Push... Why? Obi1 had to somehow survive to be in the original movies... as for the reason inside the story you could say it was The Will of the Force for Obi1 to be the only survivor of that fight..or his destiny. the same when Dooku grabbed Obi1 in a Force Choke... why dint he slice and dice him there and then instead of throwing him to the other side of the room?? he obviously had the oppurtunity to, but for some reason in that second chose to throw him instead... why? Will of the Force, so he can survive for the next movie! im sure the Force is sick of saving Obi1's ass all the time! Lol!

by the way iv asked loads of people I know, and so far iv not even found 1 person who thinks Obi-Wan was almost a match for Maul in TPM.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

And by the way, do you agree with my points about Grievous, him being the perfect counter for Maul, etc? Because let's not get it off topic about TPM Obi-Wan vs. TPM Maul.

well im not sure.. you see they were different. Greivous hits tended to have a lot of power but seemed to be more random and clumsy than Mauls.

as for comparing him to Anakin, well i just read up on Juyo, and it apparently produces the same kind of Kinetic Energy and Powerful Blows as Djem So, but is More Controlled... I think being More Controlled would make a big difference.

im sure ROTS Kenobi would win the fight because hes just smarter and more tactical.. but in terms of just Lightsaber skills, and Close Combat techniques, Maul just seems to have more.

This debate is ridiculous; Maul was capable of outclassing the most skilled duelist in the entire Order, and somehow a (skilled) Padawan has "80%" of his ability? Qui-Gon didn't last very long against Maul, and Obi-Wan himself was beaten in thirty seconds flat. In fact, I can count at least a half a dozen individual instances where Maul landed body shots on one of the two while they were fighting together.

As to the fight itself; RotS Obi-Wan takes it after an intense duel. Maul is obviously an extremely formidable opponent, but he's not getting past Kenobi's defenses.

Qui-Gon was the most skilled?

Anoon Bondara, foolish one.

here we go with the skill thing again....

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
is it just me or do me and you have a communication problem?? I never said a Double Bladed weapon is a disadvantage... just that it is a much bigger target than a normal lightsaber hilt, but if someone does hit it then theres still one side left, possibly 2 if you hit it dead on the centre.. so I dnt believe just because of that 1 hit Obi1 made in a rage in the very last fight that Obi1 dueled better than Maul or came close to killing him. i keep emphasising that was the only hit Obi1 got in the WHole fight, nd it wasnt enough to stop Maul... but you just dnt seem to get that and keep going on about that 1 hit. It may have penetrated the defenses of his Double balded weapon, however it didnt penetrate Mauls overall defenses as he got right back up and carried on fighting... so no, Obi1 wasnt about to kill him then as you keep trying to make out.

It didn't kill Maul during the fight, you're right about that; however, Maul's defenses were actually penetrated with a saber strike. YES, HIS DEFENSES! The strike was too short, so it didn't actually hit Maul, but Maul did not successfully block the strike without any harm to him. Maul did not once come close to hitting Obi-Wan, unless you count the kicks and the push.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Its not stupid... how could you have Obi1 die in the prequels?? please explain?? the fact is Maul had an opening.. there may have been 5 or 6 different ways he could have taken that opening, but in a split second decision he chose a Force Push... Why? Obi1 had to somehow survive to be in the original movies... as for the reason inside the story you could say it was The Will of the Force for Obi1 to be the only survivor of that fight..or his destiny. the same when Dooku grabbed Obi1 in a Force Choke... why dint he slice and dice him there and then instead of throwing him to the other side of the room?? he obviously had the oppurtunity to, but for some reason in that second chose to throw him instead... why? Will of the Force, so he can survive for the next movie! im sure the Force is sick of saving Obi1's ass all the time! Lol!

Here comes the 'lol' again. You know what? Dooku beat Obi-Wan and Anakin because it was the will of the force. Yoda didn't kill Dooku because it was the will of the force. Anakin beat Dooku because it was the will of the force. Obi-Wan beat Anakin because it was the will of the force. Sidious beat Yoda because it was the will of the force. Obi-Wan beat Grievous because it was the will of the force.

It DOES not matter. If the prequels were made before the original movie (which would indicate that Episode 4 would be coming out in a few days ^^), Obi-Wan would still survive. The only reason he survived till the original trilogy was because he was skilled enough to do it; you can excuse every single win/defeat in the saga 'as the will of the force', but it really doesn't work.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
by the way iv asked loads of people I know, and so far iv not even found 1 person who thinks Obi-Wan was almost a match for Maul in TPM.

Maul > Obi-Wan, for god's sake. In fair ground, Maul would pwn regular TPM Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was enraged, so he managed to be overpowering Maul for a brief section of the fight. Or do you deny the fact that he was overpowering him? Obi-Wan, with a non-mastered Ataru and some rage managed to get the upper hand on "Uber cul Mauwl". THAT'S f***ing impressive for a Padawan. If the difference between them is so large as you would like to pretend, Maul should WTFpwn Obi-Wan in 10 seconds. It didn't happen.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
well im not sure.. you see they were different. Greivous hits tended to have a lot of power but seemed to be more random and clumsy than Mauls.

Grievous relied on multiple, fast, unpredictable flurries using four lightsabers in order to beat his opponents. See the similarities to Maul? Plenty of them exist here, although Grievous did lack control- something Maul had- but Grievous had the speed anf four lightsabers to make up for it. For that reason, I think that they would be similar opponents to overcome (especially as they use multiple blades).

I think that Grievous = Maul... it was might be argued (we can make a thread about it ^^), but Grievous is an opponent just as tough and vicious as Maul. If not better.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
as for comparing him to Anakin, well i just read up on Juyo, and it apparently produces the same kind of Kinetic Energy and Powerful Blows as Djem So, but is More Controlled... I think being More Controlled would make a big difference.

Juyo relies on unpredictable albeit controlled blitzes of lightsaber strike and acrobatic movements. Maul's speed was good, but it wasn't on the level of the top Prequel dogs ('cept for Windu -_-), so he made up to it with top-notch control. Seeing as the only controlled fighter who penetrated Obi-Wan's defenses- Dooku- was faster than Maul, I personally do not think that Maul would be capable of doing any possible harm to Obi-Wan. Maul is significantly weaker than Anakin- slower (despite using a faster form), weaker (Djem So's natural advantage)... but he was more acrobatic and used better kicks. Despite it, Anakin is a superior fighter to him in almost every way.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
im sure ROTS Kenobi would win the fight because hes just smarter and more tactical.. but in terms of just Lightsaber skills, and Close Combat techniques, Maul just seems to have more.

What impressive things did Maul do?

1. Beat some Jedi Masters
2. "Was a high-level master of multiple forms."

What did Obi-Wan do?

1. Was the ULTIMATE master of Soresu, as acknowledged by Mace Windu, one of the best duelists in the order's history.
2. Fend off- and have the upper hand temporarily- on the guy who killed his master and Anoon Bondara, the so-called greatest duelist in the order, with an unmastered Ataru and some rage.
3. Dupe Dooku into thinking he used a different form than he did.
4. Beat Grievous, the guy who was overpowering four Jedi Masters at the same time.
5. Beat Anakin, Maul's absolute superior by confusing his attacks, causing him to tire and become sloppier, more frustrated.
6. Was called the most cunning warrior in the council.

I could go on and on, but you see- along with the thousands of points I have been making through this discussion, that Obi-Wan simply outclasses Maul saber-wise; Maul's most impressive feat was beating Anoon Bondara, whose technical skill was top notch- probably tied with Windu and Yoda- but was probably not the best duelist, and Obi-Wan beat mass Jedi-killers, and had a new ULTIMATE form in addition to the form he used to get the upper hand on Maul and Shii-Cho.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
It didn't kill Maul during the fight, you're right about that; however, Maul's defenses were actually penetrated with a saber strike. YES, HIS DEFENSES! The strike was too short, so it didn't actually hit Maul, but Maul did not successfully block the strike without any harm to him..

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Maul did not once come close to hitting Obi-Wan, unless you count the kicks and the push.

so lets see now... your counting Obi-Wans one kick on Maul which he recovered from in half a second as penetrating his defences, and almost killing him apparantly... but you not counting the kick from Maul, or the Force Push by him, both which disarmed Obi-Wan and left him dazed for a good few seconds as Maul even coming close to Killing Obi-Wan..

Your just being blind and blatanly one sided and biased here, so I can not continue arguing this if you cant except the blatantly obvious.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Here comes the 'lol' again. You know what? Dooku beat Obi-Wan and Anakin because it was the will of the force. Yoda didn't kill Dooku because it was the will of the force. Anakin beat Dooku because it was the will of the force. Obi-Wan beat Anakin because it was the will of the force. Sidious beat Yoda because it was the will of the force. Obi-Wan beat Grievous because it was the will of the force..
The only reason he survived till the original trilogy was because he was skilled enough to do it;

Dooku humiliated Obi-Wan but chose to throw him instead of killing him.. why? the Will of the Force. Darth Maul had Obi1 beaten but decided to gloat instead of finishing him off.. why? The Will of the Force..

how did Obi-Wans skill help him to survive either of his duels with Dooku?? there was no skill by Obi-Wan there. the first fight Anakin and Yoda saved him. The second fight Anakin saved him. So there you see it was the will of the force that kept Obi1 alive.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Maul > Obi-Wan, for god's sake. In fair ground, Maul would pwn regular TPM Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Obi-Wan was enraged, so he managed to be overpowering Maul for a brief section of the fight. Or do you deny the fact that he was overpowering him?

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Obi-Wan, with a non-mastered Ataru and some rage managed to get the upper hand on "Uber cul Mauwl".

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
THAT'S f***ing impressive for a Padawan. If the difference between them is so large as you would like to pretend, Maul should WTFpwn Obi-Wan in 10 seconds. It didn't happen.

If the fight from the beginning was just Maul vs. Obi1 then yeah Maul would have taken Obi1 out in like 10-20 seconds.

However Qui-Gon was there to save him, and vice versa. By the final fight Maul was slightly weakened.. he took a bad hit from Qui-Gon, in which he fell far and landed on his back! and plus hed been fighting for a very long time.. so instead of 10-20 seconds, it took Maul 30-40 seconds to pwn off Obi1.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Grievous relied on multiple, fast, unpredictable flurries using four lightsabers in order to beat his opponents. See the similarities to Maul? Plenty of them exist here, although Grievous did lack control- something Maul had- but Grievous had the speed anf four lightsabers to make up for it. For that reason, I think that they would be similar opponents to overcome (especially as they use multiple blades)..

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

I think that Grievous = Maul... it was might be argued (we can make a thread about it ^^), but Grievous is an opponent just as tough and vicious as Maul. If not better

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

Juyo relies on unpredictable albeit controlled blitzes of lightsaber strike and acrobatic movements. Maul's speed was good, but it wasn't on the level of the top Prequel dogs ('cept for Windu -_-), so he made up to it with top-notch control. Seeing as the only controlled fighter who penetrated Obi-Wan's defenses- Dooku- was faster than Maul, I personally do not think that Maul would be capable of doing any possible harm to Obi-Wan. Maul is significantly weaker than Anakin- slower (despite using a faster form), weaker (Djem So's natural advantage)... but he was more acrobatic and used better kicks. Despite it, Anakin is a superior fighter to him in almost every way.

Anakin had the most raw power of any jedi. so was possibly the naturally strongest and fastest jedi. However he did not have the technical skill and control Maul had. so you cant say Anakin was better in EVERY way. Anakin would win, but thats a different fight.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

What impressive things did Maul do?

1. Beat some Jedi Masters.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

2. "Was a high-level master of multiple forms.".

now lets see what you missed out there... Mauls mastered Juyo.. the deadliest and most lethal lightsaber form (not including Vapaad)

he was put through Sidious's unparalled training regime since he was a child.

Was naturaully extremlely Powerful in the Force.

a master of hand to hand combat. mixed martial arts to his jedi training. dedaly and proficient with a single blade, 2 blades, and with a double bladed weapon.

took down balck sun.

almost outduelled Sidious in a Fit of Fury.

Mauls Clone outduelling Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

What did Obi-Wan do?

1. Was the ULTIMATE master of Soresu, as acknowledged by Mace Windu, one of the best duelists in the order's history

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

2. Fend off- and have the upper hand temporarily- on the guy who killed his master and Anoon Bondara, the so-called greatest duelist in the order, with an unmastered Ataru and some rage.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

3. Dupe Dooku into thinking he used a different form than he did..

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

4. Beat Grievous, the guy who was overpowering four Jedi Masters at the same time...

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
5. Beat Anakin, Maul's absolute superior by confusing his attacks, causing him to tire and become sloppier, more frustrated....

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

I could go on and on, but you see- along with the thousands of points I have been making through this discussion, that Obi-Wan simply outclasses Maul saber-wise;

I dnt think so. Obi1... Completely Mastered Soresu, plus is quite good at Ataru and Shii-Cho.

Maul.. A High Level Master of Multiple Lightsaber Forms. Mastered Juyo, the most lethal lightsaber form. Mastered combat with a single, double and 2lightsabers.. Incorporated Martial Arts into his Lightsaber form. A Master of unarmed combat..

So as you can see, its very difficult for me to see Obi-Wans Apparent Superiority in Lightsaber or in close combat skills.

I do however admit he can survive long enough to use beat Maul with his cunning, and do agree with you that Obi1 was possibly the Most Cunning Warrior on the jedi council.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
what harm? you mean the kick? did that even harm Maul? he flipped right back up before you could blink? and are we even going to compare who did who more harm??? and who got in more kicks??? please it was just that one kick by Obi-Wan which did absolutely nothing to Maul, so I dnt see what defenses he broke... he managed to split his saber, so he only had one instead of a Double Bladed one... good for him, but it was a bit late for that to have any kind of serious blow on Maul.

The harm came to Maul's lightsaber, actually xD. I constantly elaborate on this because of the simple reason that Obi-Wan penetrated Maul's defense (unless it was his intention to have his lightsaber cut in half -_-) with a saber, while Maul did not do the same thing to Obi-Wan, did he? I'm pretty sure that Obi-Wan's inferior Ataru shouldn't be able to do so to Uber Deadliest Form Juyo Multiple Lightsaber Forms Maul. Unless, of course, Maul isn't the saber god you imagine him to be. He's a master swordsman- there's no doubt about it- but he isn't even among the top duelists in the PT Era.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
so lets see now... your counting Obi-Wans one kick on Maul which he recovered from in half a second as penetrating his defences, and almost killing him apparantly... but you not counting the kick from Maul, or the Force Push by him, both which disarmed Obi-Wan and left him dazed for a good few seconds as Maul even coming close to Killing Obi-Wan..

WITH A SABER. I'M TALKING ABOUT A SABER. Maul did not successfully penetrate Obi-Wan's defenses saber-wise in TPM. Ataru is exceptionally weak in defense- now then, Obi-Wan's Soresu COULD NOT possibly be penetrated by the same Juyo. Seeing as Maul's defense isn't exactly exceptional, Obi-Wan should be able to dispose of him or his weapon in very short order after completely messing up his bladework.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Your just being blind and blatanly one sided and biased here, so I can not continue arguing this if you cant except the blatantly obvious.

I could say the same thing about you. Apparently, you're the one who can't accept the 'blatantly obivious' regarding ROTS Obi-Wan's definite superiority to Maul.

Oh, by the way, you know what? I'll pull off a little stunt using CANON statements. NG placed ROTS Obi-Wan and ROTS Dooku on the 8/10 lightsaber level, behind Anakin, Sidious, Mace, and Yoda. Dooku is 8- it's safe to say he slightly improved between AOTC and ROTS- where in AOTC, Obi-Wan remarked somewhere that Dooku was a far more devesating foe than Maul. Now then... if Dooku is an 8- and is far superior to Maul- wouldn't Maul be something like a 6 or a 7? Obi-Wan was also 8, so it establishes that Obi-Wan > Maul.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Dooku humiliated Obi-Wan but chose to throw him instead of killing him.. why? the Will of the Force. Darth Maul had Obi1 beaten but decided to gloat instead of finishing him off.. why? The Will of the Force..

Qui-Gon didn't kill Maul. Why? The will of the force. It's not the 'will of the force', as you try to excuse, but simply Maul's ignorance. Oh, and by the way, how exactly could Maul finish Obi-Wan off? Obi-Wan was hanging down there, several meters below Maul; it would be stupid for Maul to try to reach down and slice him. Or he could jump? No. That does not make any sense. He was trying to taunt him into jumping (ironically, it succeeded and Obi-Wan cut Maul off guard).

Originally posted by Man of Christ
how did Obi-Wans skill help him to survive either of his duels with Dooku?? there was no skill by Obi-Wan there. the first fight Anakin and Yoda saved him. The second fight Anakin saved him. So there you see it was the will of the force that kept Obi1 alive.

No... it isn't... it's the character's decisions that kept him alive. In his second fight with Dooku, Obi-Wan could possibly match him in saber skills- though I'm pretty confident Dooku would eventually beat him- but Obi-Wan's anti-force defenses, at least advanced force, seems to be rather weak. He DID manage to block a force push from Anakin later on, though, and Anakin's mastery of the force is probaby similar to Maul's- but his raw power is more than twice Maul's.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
you keep changing your mind... one minute hes pawning him, and the next its a close fight.

Enraged Obi-Wan vs. Maul on even ground- Close fight, but Maul would eventually somehow defeat him.

Obi-Wan vs. Maul- Maul wins. I use 'pwn' in numerous places instead of win ^^.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Yes of course im denying that!! Obi-Wan was never overpowering him!! just because he got 1 hit the whole figth means crap all!!! Maul was laying multiple hits to Both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan while fighting them simultaneously!!!! Apart from that 1 hit that Obi1 got in, which you can not shut up about, Maul was in comlete control the whole fight, and was even smiling while fighting. he was just enjoying the sparring session.

SMILING? WHEN THE HELL WAS MAUL SMILING?

You're beginning to make things up. Maul was dead serious in his fight, you could see it on his face- he might've enjoyed it, but that's the Sith way, but Maul was dead serious in his attempts to kill Obi-Wan. During their engagment later on, Obi-Wan was pushing Maul back. He had the upper hand during that fight- Maul managed to sneak a push against the tired Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
stop dreaming. there was no upper hand. Obi1 had no chance at all of winning that fight. Maul owned him.

Something, other than your statements about him being a master, have no proof of. I agree with you that Maul would've eventually beat Obi-Wan on even ground, but it's not like Maul >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan is weaker, but the simple fact that he managed to temporarily get the upper hand on Maul is impressive.

Let's see the deal... alright?

Maul- A Juyo master, double-lightsaber, excellent martial artist, and probably has knowledge of multiple forms,

Obi-Wan- Somewhat experienced Padawan, enraged, and with a non-mastered Ataru.

And that Obi-Wan managed to get the upper hand on Maul for 30 seconds, which is a LONG time in a fight. See what I mean? Now take the new Obi-Wan...

ROTS Obi-Wan- Highly experienced Jedi master, ultimate master of Soresu, very proficient in Ataru, an incredible tactician, proficient in Shii-Cho.

Maul's stamina is almost unmatched. He also had a short rest, too, after killing Maul- a 10 second rest period, for a trained martial artist, is enough. He was tired, but not extremely tired.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
However Qui-Gon was there to save him, and vice versa. By the final fight Maul was slightly weakened.. he took a bad hit from Qui-Gon, in which he fell far and landed on his back! and plus hed been fighting for a very long time.. so instead of 10-20 seconds, it took Maul 30-40 seconds to pwn off Obi1.

Obi-Wan fell more than Maul. That's not an excuse.

Oh, and it wasn't exactly Maul pounding at Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan barely defending and subsequently being pushed into the pit. It wasn't like Maul's second engagement with Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Grevious lacked the Control, Mastery and Force Powers Maul had. So big differences as well.

Arguable.

Of course it's arguable. Maul lacked the speed, reflexes, improvising capacity, and arms of Grievous. So yeah, it's pretty balanced.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Anakin had the most raw power of any jedi. so was possibly the naturally strongest and fastest jedi. However he did not have the technical skill and control Maul had. so you cant say Anakin was better in EVERY way. Anakin would win, but thats a different fight.

Oh? Anakin DID have the technical skill of Maul. Anakin was a veteran of the clone wars and considered to be quickly decided a master. Anakin does not lack technical skill.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Including Anoon!! the most technically skilled swordsman in the order!!!

Or he was possibly tied with Mace and Yoda.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
haha! you say this like it means next to nothing! the fact is it would put Obi1's Ataru and Shii-Cho to shame!

HOW... THE HELL... DID OBI-WAN, WITH AN INFERIOR ATARU, EVEN STAND AGAINST MAUL WHO KNEW MULTIPLE FORMS AND, ASIDE FROM HIS FORM OF CHOICE, WAS BETTER THAN OBI-WAN IN ATARU?! It makes no sense.

Maul might KNOW forms, but evidence indicates he didn't actually use them. He was never documented using anything but Juyo.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
now lets see what you missed out there... Mauls mastered Juyo.. the deadliest and most lethal lightsaber form (not including Vaapad)

he was put through Sidious's unparalled training regime since he was a child.

Was naturaully extremlely Powerful in the Force.

a master of hand to hand combat. mixed martial arts to his jedi training. dedaly and proficient with a single blade, 2 blades, and with a double bladed weapon.

took down balck sun.

almost outduelled Sidious in a Fit of Fury.

Mauls Clone outduelling Darth Vader.

Juyo is lethal, Juyo is strong, but saying that it's the most lethal only means that it's the form most meant for killing. Soresu is a Jedi form- it's not a form necessarily meant for killing your opponent. It's the Jedi training.

Maul was good with blades, yes, but lots of people infuse martial arts into their fighting; when he lost his lightsaber, Obi-Wan also landed a few magnificent kicks against Jango. He isn't exactly helpless without a weapon.

Black Sun... yeah, that's impressive, but it has nothing to do with saber dueling.

Sidious never intended to kill Maul, and was caught off-guard.

Darth Vader was caught by surprise, and was no where near as powerful as his previous Anakin form.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
well i wuldnt expect Windu to be praising Maul! Lol! however Sidious did praise him.

Maul was a tool for Sidious. Sidious praised him in order to make his confidence higher and make him more loyal and devoted to him.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
not true. he had no chance against Maul in that duel.

Maul would've eventually beat Kenobi, yes, but that's TPM Obi-Wan; if TPM Obi-Wan could match with Maul, imagine what ROTS Obi-Wan would do.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
oooh he changed styles.. big deal! you know I Box (Jab) with my left hand but can pretend I box right handed for a bit. Its the oldest trick in the book.

Dooku was a Jedi Master and Sith Lord for over 65 years. With that sort of experience, it's gonna take some incredible skill and acting in order to dupe him into thinking that he was using a lightsaber form different that what he truly used. Especially as Dooku was aware of Obi-Wan's reputation as a warrior.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
4 exhausted Jedi Masters. Maul could have probably taken them down at that point. but yeah that was good, and is basically Obi1s greatest feat.

Doubt it. Grievous' agility and four arms allowed him to handle that many masters at the time, I doubt Maul could replicate the feat.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
Obi1 trained Aakin, and knew his every move.

This goes both ways.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
I dnt think so. Obi1... Completely Mastered Soresu, plus is quite good at Ataru and Shii-Cho.

Maul.. A High Level Master of Multiple Lightsaber Forms. Mastered Juyo, the most lethal lightsaber form. Mastered combat with a single, double and 2lightsabers.. Incorporated Martial Arts into his Lightsaber form. A Master of unarmed combat..

So as you can see, its very difficult for me to see Obi-Wans Apparent Superiority in Lightsaber or in close combat skills.

"Well, then you are lost!"

There is no 'best' lightsaber form- once again, Maul was never documented using anything but Juyo, so even if he does know things, there is NOTHING to show that he actually uses them! NOWHERE!

Almost every single Jedi uses some kicks in their fighting. Obi-Wan has displayed the ability to pull off some impressive kicks as well- Maul looks so cool doing them because he's being portrayed by a real martial artist.

Obi-Wan was also good at unarmed combat, but Maul was better, it's true..

Obi-Wan has displayed the ability to deal with exactly Maul's kind.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
I do however admit he can survive long enough to use beat Maul with his cunning, and do agree with you that Obi1 was possibly the Most Cunning Warrior on the jedi council.

His cunning will allow him to kill Maul even faster.

But, w/e, as I still have serious doubts that you'll be convinced.

And please, tell me why Obi-Wan couldn't do what he did to Anakin and Grievous to Maul.

you want a straight answer? Because maul pwnt boondara and knows more then 1 form, and he is a lean mean fightin' machin' that can like, do juyo, and nobody even knows what juyo is!!111! And its a known fact. Juyo is the style of hitting as hard as you can with as much energy as possible, leaving very little for defense. Maul wouldnt be able to slice through kenobis soresu, and kenobi would soon see the errors in defense that are made in juyo.

seriously. Come up with another verse.

Kenobi is confirmed to have only been proficient with two forms: Ataru and Soresu. Meanwhile, as a master of Juyo, Darth Maul is a "high end master of multiple forms" -- his training regimen, lightsaber knowledge, and martial prowess are easily in excess of Kenobi's.

So you believe Maul would eventually get past Kenobi's defence?

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
So you believe Maul would eventually get past Kenobi's defence?

I didn't say that. Kenobi's defense is pretty much beyond amazing, but Maul outclasses him in terms of physical and martial ability, as well as lightsaber technique.

not saber technique, and that means not in martial ability either. yes he's a physical beast, but they would both be refreshed by the force, so that's a moot point.

Originally posted by truejedi
not saber technique,

Darth Maul is a master of Juyo, and in order to master Juyo, one must be a "high end master of multiple forms" -- Kenobi is only proficient with Ataru and distinguished with Soresu. Furthermore, Darth Maul dominated Anoon Bondara in single combat, a Jedi Master whose technical prowess with a lightsaber was peerless in the Jedi Order.

and that means not in martial ability either.

Darth Maul is a far more martial and physically accomplished combatant than Kenobi or Skywalker.

yes he's a physical beast, but they would both be refreshed by the force, so that's a moot point.

Gotta love folks waltzing in and prattling as if they're competent; Count Dooku was "refreshed by the Force" and still couldn't compete with Skywalker on even footing. Sidious, despite being larger and heavier than Yoda, was overpowered in a lightsaber lock against the Jedi Master, despite his own prodigious command of the Force. Being stabilized and rejuvenated with the Force doesn't mean that any Force user can battle another on a physically equal footing.

Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by Gideon
I didn't say that. Kenobi's defense is pretty much beyond amazing, but Maul outclasses him in terms of physical and martial ability, as well as lightsaber technique.

I know you didn't, that's why I was asking...

Originally posted by Gideon
Kenobi is confirmed to have only been proficient with two forms: Ataru and Soresu. Meanwhile, as a master of Juyo, Darth Maul is a "high end master of multiple forms" -- his training regimen, lightsaber knowledge, and martial prowess are easily in excess of Kenobi's.

Obi-Wan was confirmed to be at the very least proficient with Shii-Cho during the fight with Dooku in the novel- he even managed to dupe Dooku with its stance- which means that he must have had some significant skill with it, as Dooku was an extremely experienced fighter and was well-aware of Obi-Wan's reputation as a swordsman.

His training regime WAS superior to Obi-Wan's, but Obi-Wan's experience was well-beyond Maul's, especially due to his participation in the Clone Wars.

Maul might know several forms, but it's completely irrelevant; if a fighter knows Aikido, Tai-Chi, Kung Fu, and Karate, but uses one of them exclusively in combat, then the actual knowledge of them doesn't matter. Maul was never documented using anything but Juyo in combat; as such, I see no reason why he would use any of them.

Now, let's say that Darth Power is correct and Maul used Ataru better than Obi-Wan; why would he not overpower Obi-Wan in 2 seconds if he could actually use Obi-Wan's chosen form better than him, and it wasn't even his preferred form? That makes no sense.

Obi-Wan's Soresu will truly give him the edge in fighting; Maul's Juyo will not be capable of penetrating Obi-Wan's Soresu, and something similar to his fight with Grievous will likely happen. Obi-Wan will cause Maul to expose himself soon in the fight, and probably beat him. His tactical knowledge will help him, too.

Btw, my 30 seconds claim earlier was an exaggerration... it would probably be a fight of roughly a minute or so. But Obi-Wan would defeat Maul; he has proven he can get past his saber defense before.

Anoon Bondara's skill was 'second to none'- that means that someone could be his equal. And, by ROTS, I'm pretty sure that the Jedi, who were suddenly forced back into more regular combat, will likely have far surpassed Bondara's level.

Oh, and could you please clarify if you think Obi-Wan or Maul will win?

Originally posted by Gideon

Gotta love folks waltzing in and prattling as if they're competent; Count Dooku was "refreshed by the Force" and still couldn't compete with Skywalker on even footing. Sidious, despite being larger and heavier than Yoda, was overpowered in a lightsaber lock against the Jedi Master, despite his own prodigious command of the Force. Being stabilized and rejuvenated with the Force doesn't mean that any Force user can battle another on a physically equal footing.

Thanks for playing.

gotta love the occasional insult, because that makes your point of view so much more relevant.... way to ensure yourself not being taken seriously. I honestly had expected something more mature from what i've read from your other posts Gideon.

Honestly, I don't think someone here wouldn't take Gideon's opinion seriously...

thats why i was surprised at the post, and if he had read this thread, i've replied numerous times to it already.