TPM Maul vs ROTS Kenobi

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Obi-Wan was confirmed to be at the very least proficient with Shii-Cho during the fight with Dooku in the novel- he even managed to dupe Dooku with its stance- which means that he must have had some significant skill with it, as Dooku was an extremely experienced fighter and was well-aware of Obi-Wan's reputation as a swordsman.

There are only two forms that I'm aware of Kenobi using during his duel with Skywalker against Count Dooku on Invisible Hand, the first being Ataru -- which is the lure used to dupe the Count -- and then Soresu. I do not recall Kenobi using Shii-Cho, so I would like for you to quote the novelization and provide some proof.

His training regime WAS superior to Obi-Wan's, but Obi-Wan's experience was well-beyond Maul's, especially due to his participation in the Clone Wars.

Your point? Experience is not decisive, nor is it necessarily greater than quality of training. Master Yoda was a Jedi Master of great repute for more than eight centuries, participated in numerous frontline battles during the Clone Wars, and yet was still unable to defeat Darth Sidious in single combat, despite the fact that the Sith Lord was roughly sixty years of age, had not participated in any armed conflict, and hadn't even touched his lightsaber for over a decade.

Maul might know several forms, but it's completely irrelevant; if a fighter knows Aikido, Tai-Chi, Kung Fu, and Karate, but uses one of them exclusively in combat, then the actual knowledge of them doesn't matter. Maul was never documented using anything but Juyo in combat; as such, I see no reason why he would use any of them.

You seem to not understand: Maul doesn't simply know several forms, he has mastered them. It is the prerequisite for mastering Juyo, which can be seen as the culmination of these multiple forms, hence why Yoda refers to Windu's completed Juyo -- Vaapad -- as the "deadliest" form of them all. Assuming Juyo itself is too general to perform well against Kenobi, Maul can and most likely will switch to another form to counter it.

Now, let's say that Darth Power is correct and Maul used Ataru better than Obi-Wan; why would he not overpower Obi-Wan in 2 seconds if he could actually use Obi-Wan's chosen form better than him, and it wasn't even his preferred form? That makes no sense.

This is totally irrelevant. What basis is there for this ridiculous hypothetical? I never presumed to believe that Darth Maul was necessarily more proficient than Kenobi in Ataru. And even if he were, there is no indication that he could have disabled Kenobi in "two seconds".

Obi-Wan's Soresu will truly give him the edge in fighting; Maul's Juyo will not be capable of penetrating Obi-Wan's Soresu, and something similar to his fight with Grievous will likely happen. Obi-Wan will cause Maul to expose himself soon in the fight, and probably beat him. His tactical knowledge will help him, too.

Perhaps you would do us the honor of providing evidence or proof to corroborate this steaming pile of claims? Prove that Kenobi's Soresu will be invulnerable to Maul's Juyo, and then prove that Kenobi's Soresu will be invulnerable to any other form that Maul has at his disposal -- you'll pretty much have to account for all of them.

Btw, my 30 seconds claim earlier was an exaggerration... it would probably be a fight of roughly a minute or so. But Obi-Wan would defeat Maul; he has proven he can get past his saber defense before.

This is asinine and unsupported; Kenobi breached Maul's defense after the Sith Lord had already outmaneuvered and defeated Qui-Gon Jinn -- Kenobi's superior according to the Phantom Menace novelization -- and only when Kenobi had been utilizing his rage and anger, which the saga has demonstrated to be an amazing boon (if temporary). By Kenobi's own admission in the Essential Guide to the Force, Maul was still better.

Anoon Bondara's skill was 'second to none'- that means that someone could be his equal. And, by ROTS, I'm pretty sure that the Jedi, who were suddenly forced back into more regular combat, will likely have far surpassed Bondara's level.

Anoon Bondara's skill was "second to none" and Yoda's -- the most powerful reigning Jedi -- skill was described as "second to none on the Council". The narrator provided a specific condition to Yoda's claim to fame. There was no Jedi living at the time whose technical prowess with a lightsaber was equal to or superior to Anoon Bondara's. Yet Maul defeated him.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
I know you didn't, that's why I was asking...

I wasn't insulting, flaming, or being otherwise short with you, Lieutenant. Merely clarifying.

Originally posted by truejedi
gotta love the occasional insult, because that makes your point of view so much more relevant.... way to ensure yourself not being taken seriously. I honestly had expected something more mature from what i've read from your other posts Gideon.

Gotta love someone who tries to make a point, is refuted, and doesn't even bother to respond yet still prance around as though he is right. Perhaps if you had bothered to provide proof, evidence, or even a suggestion of corroboration, rather than declare "moot point!" and not support it -- as though your opinion is the end all be end all -- I would have been a little more polite.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Honestly, I don't think someone here wouldn't take Gideon's opinion seriously...

Oh, stop. You're embarrassing me...

[invisible]Continue, my apprentice![/invisible]

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Maul might know several forms, but it's completely irrelevant; if a fighter knows Aikido, Tai-Chi, Kung Fu, and Karate, but uses one of them exclusively in combat, then the actual knowledge of them doesn't matter. Maul was never documented using anything but Juyo in combat; as such, I see no reason why he would use any of them.

If Maul knows more than one form but prefers Juyo then his other knowledge does matter being able to recognize what what type of style your opponent is using and knowing its strengths and weaknesses is very important.

Anoon Bondara's skill was 'second to none'- that means that someone could be his equal. And, by ROTS, I'm pretty sure that the Jedi, who were suddenly forced back into more regular combat, will likely have far surpassed Bondara's level.

Originally posted by Gideon
I wasn't insulting, flaming, or being otherwise short with you, Lieutenant. Merely clarifying.

Oh, okay, then.

Oh, stop. You're embarrassing me...

[invisible]Continue, my apprentice![/invisible]

😆

It's true, though. ✅

[invisible]I will, my master.. 🪩 [/invisible]

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Honestly, I don't think someone here wouldn't take Gideon's opinion seriously...

i dont take anyone's opinion on a fictional universe "seriously" and noone else should. If you do, get a life.

Originally posted by Gideon
There are only two forms that I'm aware of Kenobi using during his duel with Skywalker against Count Dooku on Invisible Hand, the first being Ataru -- which is the lure used to dupe the Count -- and then Soresu. I do not recall Kenobi using Shii-Cho, so I would like for you to quote the novelization and provide some proof.

I do not have the novel on me at the moment; however, I'm almost completely confident he was also utilizing Shii-Cho during the duel. Of course, I might be incorrect; if someone here has the novel, I'm sure they can provide the evidence or disproof me.

Originally posted by Gideon
Your point? Experience is not decisive, nor is it necessarily greater than quality of training. Master Yoda was a Jedi Master of great repute for more than eight centuries, participated in numerous frontline battles during the Clone Wars, and yet was still unable to defeat Darth Sidious in single combat, despite the fact that the Sith Lord was roughly sixty years of age, had not participated in any armed conflict, and hadn't even touched his lightsaber for over a decade.

Naturally, experience isn't everything, but it matters- Maul did receive some incredibly intensive training, but experience does not count for nothing. Obi-Wan has also trained intensively and probably fought in more conflicts than Yoda did. Maul is probably in better shape, but Obi-Wan's Soresu stresses very little energy; in fact, it's an extremely energy-conservative form, so thus, I seriously doubt Obi-Wan is going to tire.

Originally posted by Gideon
You seem to not understand: Maul doesn't simply know several forms, he has mastered them. It is the prerequisite for mastering Juyo, which can be seen as the culmination of these multiple forms, hence why Yoda refers to Windu's completed Juyo -- Vaapad -- as the "deadliest" form of them all. Assuming Juyo itself is too general to perform well against Kenobi, Maul can and most likely will switch to another form to counter it.

Yes, Maul could have mastered multiple forms- but then again, for once, he hardly used them. And I don't see anyone talking about Mace's other lightsaber forms in debates- just his Vaapad. Maul might have mastered several forms on the path to Juyo mastery, but after mastering Juyo, I seriously doubt he used other forms- there is nothing to imply he did- so he probably abandoned the training of other forms. That is not to say he doesn't have knowledge of most/all of the forms, but quality over quantity. Juyo is Maul's best form, clearly, right? And even in TPM, when Obi-Wan was using Ataru- a weak form at defense- Maul was incapable of penetrating his defense with Juyo. Now, subsequently imagine the same Obi-Wan who was the ultimate master of the form with the best defense fend off against the same Juyo as Maul. You can imagine the result.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is totally irrelevant. What basis is there for this ridiculous hypothetical? I never presumed to believe that Darth Maul was necessarily more proficient than Kenobi in Ataru. And even if he were, there is no indication that he could have disabled Kenobi in "two seconds".

Oh, that was something from my excessively long debate with Darth Power ^^. If you would read it, you would see a long list of points I've made to establish that Obi-Wan > Maul.

But it is likely that Obi-Wan's used forms- Ataru and Soresu (and Shii-Cho if I'm proven right) are superior to Maul's versions of the forms.

Originally posted by Gideon
Perhaps you would do us the honor of providing evidence or proof to corroborate this steaming pile of claims? Prove that Kenobi's Soresu will be invulnerable to Maul's Juyo, and then prove that Kenobi's Soresu will be invulnerable to any other form that Maul has at his disposal -- you'll pretty much have to account for all of them.

I've spent this entire thread explaining the thousands of reasons why Obi-Wan's Soresu will not possibly be penetrated by Maul's Juyo.

First of all, as I've stated above, Obi-Wan in TPM, using an unmastered Ataru, did not have his defense penetrated by Maul. I won't repeat what I've said above, but yeah, if Maul could not use his saber to quickly overpower such a drastically inferior Kenobi, it's extremely unlikely he could do it to ROTS Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan was ESPECIALLY picked to fight Grievous due to his incredibly high mastery of Soresu- Grievous, who was a killing machine who Dooku acknowledged as being near his own level (personally, I believe that Grievous = Maul) and relies on similar tactics to Maul. Brutally fighting, unpredictable, fast blitzes of lightsaber strikes, martial strikes, and multiple blades. Grievous, too, had knowledge and prowess in all of the forms, but could not hope to penetrate Obi-Wan's defense.

However... one could say Maul has the force, better control, and such. But Grievous was faster, had better reflexes, and was physically stronger than Maul; as such, I think they would be fairly similar to each other in terms of combat.

Anakin was faster and stronger than Maul; although it can be accounted to Obi-Wan's complete knowledge of him, Obi-Wan managed to deflect powerful barrages by Anakin during the course of the fight, despite Anakin being an extremely powerful fighter. He, too, fought akin to Maul; he used brutal blitzes of strikes.

Since Juyo was Maul's best form- and it could not, possibly could not defeat Obi-Wan's defense- I see no reason why his other, inferior forms should be able to do the same.

Oh, and by the way- I may be wrong about this, but like I've said before, I believe Obi-Wan remarked somewhere about Dooku being a far more devestating opponent than Maul was. Now then; by ROTS, NG called Obi-Wan an 8, and said that Anakin, Windu, Sidious, and Yoda are the only 9's. Logically, Dooku would also probably be an 8; he's probably improved between AOTC and ROTS, if only slightly, but since he was stronger than Maul by Obi-Wan's own admission, wouldn't Maul be on a logically lower skill level? And since Obi-Wan is also an 8, is establishes that Obi-Wan > Maul in saber skills.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is asinine and unsupported; Kenobi breached Maul's defense after the Sith Lord had already outmaneuvered and defeated Qui-Gon Jinn -- Kenobi's superior according to the Phantom Menace novelization -- and only when Kenobi had been utilizing his rage and anger, which the saga has demonstrated to be an amazing boon (if temporary). By Kenobi's own admission in the Essential Guide to the Force, Maul was still better.

Oh, I don't doubt that Maul > TPM Obi-Wan, but simply the fact that Padawan Obi-Wan could match- and temporarily get the upper hand- on Maul is extremely impressive on its own right.

Originally posted by Gideon
Anoon Bondara's skill was "second to none" and Yoda's -- the most powerful reigning Jedi -- skill was described as "second to none on the Council". The narrator provided a specific condition to Yoda's claim to fame. There was no Jedi living at the time whose technical prowess with a lightsaber was equal to or superior to Anoon Bondara's. Yet Maul defeated him.

Hmm... that does not necessarily mean that Yoda's skills are less powerful than Anoon's, as it does not explicitly say that, but it's a possibility. Still, Yoda probably significantly improved between TPM and ROTS.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
i dont take anyone's opinion on a fictional universe "seriously" and noone else should. If you do, get a life.

I have a life and I like it, thank you very much. And you apparently didn't understand what I was saying.

Actually Gideon Obiwan did use elements of Shi Cho vs Dooku in ROTS

It was a simple matter of countering their tactics, which were depressingly straightforward; Skywalker was the swift one, whooshing here and there like a spastic hawk-bat-attempting a Jedi variant of neek-in-the-middle so they could come at him from both sides-while Kenobi came on in a measured Shi-Cho cadence, deliberate as a lumberdroid, moving step by step, cutting off the angles, clumsy but relentlessly dogged as he tried to chivvy Dooku into a corner.

and

Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
I didn't say that. Kenobi's defense is pretty much beyond amazing, but Maul outclasses him in terms of physical and martial ability, as well as lightsaber technique.

Gideon: about what you said about substantiation, fair enough, except check out your quote above:

my original reply to you was almost exactly the same length as your post

so not knowing your reasoning as to why maul outclasses him in saber technique, i'll defend my physical advantage point by asking: when it comes to stamina, obi wan engaged in the 2 longest duels of the saga. (TPM, and ROTS vs. anakin.) what evidence do we have that Maul had better stamina than Obi-wan?

agreed maul is stronger, but Obi-wan crushed grievous duranium arm, as evidenced by ROTS novelization, where does maul match that kind of pure strength?

knowing Juyo does not put maul on a higher lightsaber level than Kenobi: there is no evidence he ever mastered Juyo. Just that he used it. Each saber technique has its own weaknesses. No saber technique is SUPERIOR to another. as Mace said "which is greater, one who creates his own form, or one who MASTERS the classic form. " Soresu is that classic form. Obi wan was the greatest master of it. Ever.

i fail to see how this gives Maul a lightsaber advantage in ROTS.

I never denied that he used Shii-Cho, I merely wanted proof, and that does not prove that Kenobi was deeply proficient with the form.

Originally posted by truejedi
Gideon: about what you said about substantiation, fair enough, except check out your quote above:

my original reply to you was almost exactly the same length as your post

It's not about the length of the message, truejedi, it's about substantiating things. All of what I have said is common knowledge: Maul's training makes Kenobi's look pathetic and as a master of Juyo, he has had to master multiple forms.

so not knowing your reasoning as to why maul outclasses him in saber technique, i'll defend my physical advantage point by asking: when it comes to stamina, obi wan engaged in the 2 longest duels of the saga. (TPM, and ROTS vs. anakin.) what evidence do we have that Maul had better stamina than Obi-wan?

The fact that Maul was stranded on a desolate planet in the Outer Rim, hunted by scores of assassin droids for days, and then immediately engaged in a duel with Darth Sidious would indicate that his stamina outclasses Kenobi's own.

agreed maul is stronger, but Obi-wan crushed grievous duranium arm, as evidenced by ROTS novelization, where does maul match that kind of pure strength?

The novelization depicts Obi-Wan being in total concert with the Force during that duel, hence why the narrator said that the Magnaguards were "well beyond Obi-Wan's capability to defeat" -- but the Force embodied him during that engagement -- allowing him to defeat the General. Moreover, your entire post doesn't make sense: "Maul is stronger, I agree, but not in pure strength!!1!". General Grievous's biomechanical body allows for a far greater immediate reserve of strength than Obi-Wan. No one said that durasteel > the Force.

knowing Juyo does not put maul on a higher lightsaber level than Kenobi: there is no evidence he ever mastered Juyo. Just that he used it. Each saber technique has its own weaknesses. No saber technique is SUPERIOR to another. as Mace said "which is greater, one who creates his own form, or one who MASTERS the classic form. " Soresu is that classic form. Obi wan was the greatest master of it. Ever.

Words cannot begin to describe how utterly wrong you are. Makashi is the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat", meaning that form is superior in terms of pure bladework. Soresu is the form for pure defense, naturally, it is superior than other forms in terms of pure defense. Yoda referred to Vaapad as the "deadliest" of all forms, meaning that it is the most dangerous. The idea that no form is superior to another is absolutely absurd.

Similarly, "Fight Saber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat" identifies Maul as a
master of Form VII, which is only possible for "high-level masters of multiple Forms."

i fail to see how this gives Maul a lightsaber advantage in ROTS.

He has the advantage in that he is a master of multiple forms, his training is vastly superior, and he is the more skilled and physically capable combatant.

Originally posted by Gideon

"It's not about the length of the message, truejedi, it's about substantiating things. All of what I have said is common knowledge: Maul's training makes Kenobi's look pathetic and as a master of Juyo, he has had to master multiple forms."

Only common knowledge if one agrees with you. There is no canon source that states "Maul's training makes Kenobi's look pathetic"
It is still be debated, so you can't claim it as fact. I'm not saying its incorrect, i'm just saying that you can't say it stands alone, while my opinion of your opinion didn't. In fact, that's the only reason i answered as flippantly as i did, because i saw your opinion posted with nothing to back it up as well.

"The fact that Maul was stranded on a desolate planet in the Outer Rim, hunted by scores of assassin droids for days, and then immediately engaged in a duel with Darth Sidious would indicate that his stamina outclasses Kenobi's own."

Stamina is a fluid concept. If you ever stop working out, 3 weeks later you can't lift as much, you can't do as many reps, you can't run as many miles, as fast... etc. So we have no idea what stamina either one had in TPM. That can change quickly enough that we can't narrow it down. It is also unlikely that this would be a long enough duel for stamina of either one to come into play. Maul had the impressive feat listed by yourself, while Obi-wan fought a monster at geonosis, a billion droids, and then dooku, one after another. His stamina was pretty good too. In a one on one duel, one of those two are more likely to die than get worn out.

"The novelization depicts Obi-Wan being in total concert with the Force during that duel, hence why the narrator said that the Magnaguards were "well beyond Obi-Wan's capability to defeat" -- but the Force embodied him during that engagement -- allowing him to defeat the General. Moreover, your entire post doesn't make sense: "Maul is stronger, I agree, but not in pure strength!!1!". General Grievous's biomechanical body allows for a far greater immediate reserve of strength than Obi-Wan. No one said that durasteel > the Force."

I didn't make myself clear. What i meant was, Obi-wan's force enhanced strength was greater than maul's, (since we have no evidence of maul's force enhanced strength letting him do anything as impressive as bending grievous's arm) so while maul may be superior in just plain strength, they are at best, EQUAL when it comes to the strength they would be displaying in a duel. Yoda is not as physically strong as many jedi, but it is not a weakness, because the force makes him as stronger than his fellow jedi. The same would be said for Obi-wan, who you said yourself was "totally in concert with the force"

"Words cannot begin to describe how utterly wrong you are. Makashi is the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat", meaning that form is superior in terms of pure bladework. Soresu is the form for pure defense, naturally, it is superior than other forms in terms of pure defense. Yoda referred to Vaapad as the "deadliest" of all forms, meaning that it is the most dangerous. The idea that no form is superior to another is absolutely absurd."

I will concede Vaapad, because it is on a whole different level, but there are only 2 master in the history of that form, Mace and Depa, so it can hardly make untrue my next paragraph all by itself.

In KOTOR 2, Kreia explains that each saber form has its own strengths and weaknesses, and also says that you can't choose one over another, because they are each better in certain circumstances. I don't remember the exact quotes, but if you don't either, and don't believe me, i can look them up... Though i admit, i'd much rather play GTA tonight that KOTOR...(anybody else remember) but that is the basis for my opinion on that.

and btw, which part of the HTML do i have to copy to get it to keep all your quotes in their own little nifty boxes? (8

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
And please, tell me why Obi-Wan couldn't do what he did to Anakin and Grievous to Maul.

what did he do to Anakin? tactically outsmarted him.. Iv already said he probably could do this to Maul.. win by outsamrting him after a long fight.

Also even though Anakin was much more powerful than Maul, he simply doesnt have the Control or Technical skill that Maul has. List Anakins sword fighting/combat skills, and then list Mauls and you will see that for yourself.

Also Anakin and Obi-Wan knew each others every move so thats a totally different fight(and will probably give the teacher the edge)

Grevious doesnt have Mauls Mastery over Lightsaber forms, his Control, or his Force Powers.. iv alrady explained this several times.

Sidi-Boy your apparent proof that ROTS Kenobi is far superior to TPM Maul is based on your speculation of the TPM fight. That Maul apparently wasnt able to breach young Obi-Wans defence, that young Obi-Wan temporarily matched and was overpowering Maul, and was able to breach his defence so what chance would Maul have over the older Obi-Wan??
I dnt agree with any of this about the fight between Maul and Young Obi1 and have given detailed descriptions in previous posts why, so dnt see the need in repeating myself.

and nor do Obi-Wans own account of the fight in his journal agree with your assessment of the fight (which Gideon and Elite Hunter have been nice enough to post.)

so therefore you have proved nothing to me about ROTS Obi1 having superior combat and lightsaber skills to Maul. If you look at the list and variety of their lightsaber and combat skills, then it is clear Maul is definetely ahead in these aspects at least.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
The harm came to Maul's lightsaber, actually xD. I constantly elaborate on this because of the simple reason that Obi-Wan penetrated Maul's defense (unless it was his intention to have his lightsaber cut in half -_-) with a saber,

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
while Maul did not do the same thing to Obi-Wan, did he? ,

Maul disarmed Obi-Wan twice. if thats not penetrating Obi1s Saber defense then I dnt knw what is... not to mention Maul was outduelling both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan together.

Dude seriously, Maul could have fought and killed 2 Obi-Wans simultaneously in TPM. Kenobi culdnt keep up with the fight and hence got smacked really hard and disarmed. If there was another Obi-Wan ther instead of Qui-Gon then they both would have died!

It was only Qui-Gons hit on Maul that started turning the tides of the fight.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Oh, by the way, you know what? I'll pull off a little stunt using CANON statements. NG placed ROTS Obi-Wan and ROTS Dooku on the 8/10 lightsaber level, behind Anakin, Sidious, Mace, and Yoda. Dooku is 8- it's safe to say he slightly improved between AOTC and ROTS- where in AOTC, Obi-Wan remarked somewhere that Dooku was a far more devesating foe than Maul. Now then... if Dooku is an 8- and is far superior to Maul- wouldn't Maul be something like a 6 or a 7? Obi-Wan was also 8, so it establishes that Obi-Wan > Maul. ,

when did they say Dooku was a level 8?? and your logic is flawed, because Obi-Wans reamrk about Dooku being a more devastating foe than Maul does not necessarily mean in Saber skills. Whilst NG's ratings were all about Saber skills.

Mauls saber skills may be very close to Dookus, but Dooku would still be a far more devastating foe due to his far superior Mastery if the Force (e.g. Force Lightning e.t.c.)

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Oh, and by the way, how exactly could Maul finish Obi-Wan off? Obi-Wan was hanging down there, several meters below Maul; it would be stupid for Maul to try to reach down and slice him. ,

mate you ever heard of a Force Push?? the same way Obi1 ended up there in the first place! or he could use the force to rip off the handle Obi1 was holding onto... or he could use the Force to chuck stuff at Obi1... hell he culdve even chucked Qui-Gon at him.

but the simple force push would be the obvious way.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Obi-Wan fell more than Maul. That's not an excuse.,

Maul landed flat on his back! and didnt even have time to get up before Qui-Gon carried on his assault on Maul. Whilst Obi-Wan was out of the fight for a while and had more time to recover, and did not land flat on his back!

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

HOW... THE HELL... DID OBI-WAN, WITH AN INFERIOR ATARU, EVEN STAND AGAINST MAUL WHO KNEW MULTIPLE FORMS AND, ASIDE FROM HIS FORM OF CHOICE, WAS BETTER THAN OBI-WAN IN ATARU?! It makes no sense.

I never said Maul defo knows Ataru. I said Obi-Wans Ataru and Shii-Cho is next to negligible when compared to Mauls "High Mastery of Multiple Lightsaber Forms.."

also Obi-Wan didnt stand up to Maul very well. Like iv already explained above, Maul could have fought and defeated and killed 2 Obi-Wans simultaneously in TPM. Only Qui-Gon started to turn the tides of that fight into the jedis favour. without him Obi-WAn and his twin clone brother would be toast! 🙂

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
what did he do to Anakin? tactically outsmarted him.. Iv already said he probably could do this to Maul.. win by outsamrting him after a long fight.

Also even though Anakin was much more powerful than Maul, he simply doesnt have the Control or Technical skill that Maul has. List Anakins sword fighting/combat skills, and then list Mauls and you will see that for yourself.

Just thinking about this, but anakin is the chosen one, with more raw potential than yoda. We have already surmised that "technical skill" impacts a fight very little compared to force mastery.

Also Anakin and Obi-Wan knew each others every move so thats a totally different fight(and will probably give the teacher the edge)

Sidi-Boy your apparent proof that ROTS Kenobi is far superior to TPM Maul is based on your speculation of the TPM fight. That Maul apparently wasnt able to breach young Obi-Wans defence, that young Obi-Wan temporarily matched and was overpowering Maul, and was able to breach his defence so what chance would Maul have over the older Obi-Wan??
I dnt agree with any of this about the fight between Maul and Young Obi1 and have given detailed descriptions in previous posts why, so dnt see the need in repeating myself.

and nor do Obi-Wans own account of the fight in his journal agree with your assessment of the fight (which Gideon and Elite Hunter have been nice enough to post.)

so therefore you have proved nothing to me about ROTS Obi1 having superior combat and lightsaber skills to Maul. If you look at the list and variety of their lightsaber and combat skills, then it is clear Maul is definetely ahead in these aspects at least.

agreed. cept for the part where they arent even close to being close in lightsaber combat, and kenobi is the typical modest **** jedi, not going to rant and rave about how he killed maul, but to put it aside as luck, and say that maul was far above him in power. So i'd say that kenobi's word is not as strong in this matter as you would say.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
in rots, obi wan is not anakin's teacher.

So, the novel makes it clear they each others fighting styles inside and out, they were "two halves of a whole warrior" or something like that.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Just thinking about this, but anakin is the chosen one, with more raw potential than yoda. We have already surmised that "technical skill" impacts a fight very little compared to force mastery.

in rots, obi wan is not anakin's teacher.

not quite true. Dooku taught grevious multiple forms, and could barely fend against him when they sparred.

agreed. cept for the part where they arent even close to being close in lightsaber combat, and kenobi is the typical modest **** jedi, not going to rant and rave about how he killed maul, but to put it aside as luck, and say that maul was far above him in power. So i'd say that kenobi's word is not as strong in this matter as you would say.

whatever. i just wanted to point out for future reference that Anakin is a full fledged jedi knight at this point.

Because no one else here knew that already?

Originally posted by Faunus
"We" have surmised nothing. I had to beat this into you for two days.

Until you come up with an argument to support your stance, it doesn't matter. Not that I'm actually expecting you to come up with a better argument.

not really, the source where grevious matched dooku=canon, although i dont remember where i got it.

Do i care what you expect? not really.

Originally posted by Faunus
He never matched Dooku. You're thinking of Labyrinth of Evil, where the Count mentions that he had been occasionally hard-pressed to defeat Grievous in their sparring matches.
Good job proving me right.

aye! thats the one!