Originally posted by h1a8
That's debatable.
He can dodgle bullets after they have been fired, he has similar doding feats and Cap said he could. Yeah he sees bullets in slow motion.
Originally posted by h1a8
But let's assume that he will. Then can CA hit spidey even if both can see each other as statues?
You figure it out, stupid question.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'll take that as a Yes. So this is at least a stalemate for Spidey then?
Well I think Cap wins 6/10, but I can settle for 5/10. The only thing is during the civil war Cap was owning a Spiderman that was even better...if he can do it to that Spiderman this Spiderman would get owned vene harder......
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well I think Cap wins 6/10, but I can settle for 5/10. The only thing is during the civil war Cap was owning a Spiderman that was even better...if he can do it to that Spiderman this Spiderman would get owned vene harder......
The thing is actual fights hold no water if they contradict the things that a character has been established of doing. This is the meat and potatoes why you think CA wins. If the fights showed Spiderman easily dominating CA ever time they fought then this thread would have ended a long time ago. So their actual fight holding water is where we disagree. You accept them, I don't.
And why would you except CA hitting SM with a plain straight punch anyway? That alone makes the fight invalid.
Originally posted by h1a8
The thing is actual fights hold no water if they contradict the things that a character has been established of doing. This is the meat and potatoes why you think CA wins.If the fights showed Spiderman easily dominating CA ever time they fought then this thread would have ended a long time ago. So their actual fight holding water is where we disagree. You accept them, I don't.
Your problem is that you're wanting to use Spidey's BEST showings while only using Cap's worst showings, but an equal standard needs to be applied if your wanting to maintain any semblance of impartiality. The two characters have similar "high end", "low end", and "average" depictions of their general abilities so as long as both are functioning under the same set of rules Cap CAN match Spidey h2h any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't negate that Spidey won't see CA as a statue.
What the ****?
That doesn't negate Cap won't?
Triple negative? Jesus, try authoring a little more clarity.
Anyways; your supposition is that because Spidey can dodge bullets, he must be able to see them in slow motion, and because he can see them in slow motion, he would likewise see Cap as standing still.
But you completely ignore the fact that Cap, too, can dodge and even weave between bullets with ease, does so without any early warning system, and has even explained that the reason he does so is because he actually sees faster.
Thusly using your logic, Cap has better odds of seeing Spidey as a statue than vice versa, as Cap performs similar feats to Parker without the advantage of an early warning system AND because he has actually said that the world is in slow-mo for him.
And even if you want to go down that route....
They both have reacted to bullets after they've been fired. Meaning that they'd both 'see each other as statues.' (I can't believe I just wrote that....do you have any idea how big a moron you sound for proposing such a ridiculous idea?)
In which case, Cap would still hold the monumental skill advantage, and would still be the 'favorite' to land the most attacks - any one of which could put Parker out of commission.
Originally posted by darthgoober
On the contrary, people think Captain America wins/evenly matches Spidey based on several things outside their actual fights. Similar speed feats, a decent durability advantage, consistent good showings against some of Spidey's best foes, and a level of fighting skill and tactical knowledge that completely blows Peter's out of the water.
You took it word for word, right out of my mouth.
Originally posted by Soljer
What the ****?That doesn't negate Cap won't?
Triple negative? Jesus, try authoring a little more clarity.
Anyways; your supposition is that because Spidey can dodge bullets, he must be able to see them in slow motion, and because he can see them in slow motion, he would likewise see Cap as standing still.
But you completely ignore the fact that Cap, too, can dodge and even weave between bullets with ease, does so without any early warning system, and has even explained that the reason he does so is because he actually [b]sees
faster.Thusly using your logic, Cap has better odds of seeing Spidey as a statue than vice versa, as Cap performs similar feats to Parker without the advantage of an early warning system AND because he has actually said that the world is in slow-mo for him.
And even if you want to go down that route....
They both have reacted to bullets after they've been fired. Meaning that they'd both 'see each other as statues.' (I can't believe I just wrote that....do you have any idea how big a moron you sound for proposing such a ridiculous idea?)
In which case, Cap would still hold the monumental skill advantage, and would still be the 'favorite' to land the most attacks - any one of which could put Parker out of commission. [/B]
I'm terrible at English sometimes. Bare with me.
But if both can see each other as statues then my point was
that this is at least a stalemate for Spidey (as seen in my post above). SS has nothing to do with SM's reflexes of seeing things slower. Also SM has been shown to see bullets in almost still motion (as you would say 'see faster'😉.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'm terrible at English sometimes. Bare with me.
But if both can see each other as statues then my point was
that this is at least a stalemate for Spidey (as seen in my post above). SS has nothing to do with SM's reflexes of seeing things slower. Also SM has been shown to see bullets in almost still motion (as you would say 'see faster'😉.
No worries about the English, things like triple negatives are just really jolting when you're reading.
Further; where has Spidey seen bullets in slow motion? I haven't seen you post any scans of as much, H1.
And, if they see each other as stationary, why would it be at least a stalemate in Parker's favor and not vice versa, considering Cap's monumental skill and strategic advantages?
Originally posted by darthgoober
On the contrary, people think Captain America wins/evenly matches Spidey based on several things outside their actual fights. Similar speed feats, a decent durability advantage, consistent good showings against some of Spidey's best foes, and a level of fighting skill and tactical knowledge that completely blows Peter's out of the water. Now if you could counter those points with something other than "I don't like it so it didn't happen" you might find people to be a little more supportive of your opinion. I mean, haven't you noticed that even Marvelknight has broken down and admitted that he underestimated the abilities of Cap after the wave of evidence that's been shown to him in this very thread?Your problem is that you're wanting to use Spidey's BEST showings while only using Cap's worst showings, but an equal standard needs to be applied if your wanting to maintain any semblance of impartiality. The two characters have similar "high end", "low end", and "average" depictions of their general abilities so as long as both are functioning under the same set of rules Cap CAN match Spidey h2h any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
1. CA feats are not impressive enough to say that he is close to Spidey in speed. The feats match only in your head.
2. CA can never be close to Spidey by definition. I don't care if CA was shown to outrun a laser. With that said, any feat showing (even though they don't exist) CA being faster than bullets is invalid. Doesn't matter what anyone says because the truth is what counts.
That is to say Super speed>>>>>>Peak human speed (no super powers)
3. F=MA (this is the most important point that proves it)
4. Spidey combos CA to ko within the first 5 seconds.
If CA can match spidey then why do us experts on common sense think that he can't? I think this thread is spite. I know CA won't get any wins. In fact SM beats him in 5 seconds or less everytime. And I'm being totally honest and truthful. What say you?
Originally posted by darthgooberHow in the hell would CA turn sideways to avoid the bullets and then flip forward with the bullets staying in the exact same position? This would require the stopping of time which means infinite speed (infinitely greater than light itself). That is why your interpretation is nonsense.
You see him dodge the bullets and then you see him jump in front of them, there's no other way to interpret it... unless of course we(like you) SPECULATE that then bullets continued traveling off panel before the final image despite there being NO indication of it whatsoever.
No he hasn't. We will never agree here so we should just stop. The red skull scan shows CA moved after the first three shots were fired. This is because a gun's mechanism limits the speed of it being fired in succession. I'm amazed you actually believe that CA can outrun bullets like he's Superman. B.S. aside, that would be PIS in its finest. Right?
Sure he has. The scan I just posted and the Red Skull scan from earlier are both instances of Cap moving faster than a bullet.
Yeah he does evasive movement consistently and blocking bullets with his shield consistently. Do you know how many times he had to use his shield to prevent from getting hit? But never any real dodging or moving faster than bullets does he do consistently. And I don't care what other characters say. I know the truth.
Cap does it consistently and is compared to them in speed by others, you can't have a much more consistent portrayal of ability than that.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. CA feats are not impressive enough to say that he is close to Spidey in speed. The feats match only in your head.2. CA can never be close to Spidey by definition. I don't care if CA was shown to outrun a laser. With that said, any feat showing (even though they don't exist) CA being faster than bullets is invalid. Doesn't matter what anyone says because the truth is what counts.
That is to say Super speed>>>>>>Peak human speed (no super powers)3. F=MA (this is the most important point that proves it)
4. Spidey combos CA to ko within the first 5 seconds.
If CA can match spidey then why do us experts on common sense think that he can't? I think this thread is spite. I know CA won't get any wins. In fact SM beats him in 5 seconds or less everytime. And I'm being totally honest and truthful. What say you?
Originally posted by h1a8
How in the hell would CA turn sideways to avoid the bullets and then flip forward with the bullets staying in the exact same position? This would require the stopping of time which means infinite speed (infinitely greater than light itself). That is why your interpretation is nonsense.No he hasn't. We will never agree here so we should just stop. The red skull scan shows CA moved after the first three shots were fired. This is because a gun's mechanism limits the speed of it being fired in succession. I'm amazed you actually believe that CA can outrun bullets like he's Superman. B.S. aside, that would be PIS in its finest. Right?
Yeah he does evasive movement consistently and blocking bullets with his shield consistently. Do you know how many times he had to use his shield to prevent from getting hit? But never any real dodging or moving faster than bullets does he do consistently. And I don't care what other characters say. I know the truth.
Now Peter weighs less than 200 lbs(and his size physique would certainly not allow for him to lift more than that if he wasn't enhanced) right? So a 40x increase to his strength would put his MAXIMUM lifting strength at about 8,000 lbs(which is right on par with Spidey's early appearances) so by your logic, any time Peter's lifted more than 4 tons it HAS to be a case of PIS because it doesn't "make sense" for him to lift more no matter how many times he's done it 😱 .
Originally posted by h1a8
1. CA feats are not impressive enough to say that he is close to Spidey in speed. The feats match only in your head.
Haven't seen you post a single scan to prove it. Again; any speed feat you care to post for Parker, Cap can almost certainly match.
Originally posted by h1a8
2. CA can never be close to Spidey by definition. I don't care if CA was shown to outrun a laser. With that said, any feat showing (even though they don't exist) CA being faster than bullets is invalid. Doesn't matter what anyone says because the truth is what counts.
That is to say Super speed>>>>>>Peak human speed (no super powers)
That's a very ignorant position to take. We're debating about fictional characters - all we have to go in is what the writers choose to tell us they're capable of. If Cap were shown outrunning a laser, well, then he can move at the speed of light. The ink on the page holds superiority over whatever you feel like Cap should be capable of.
Originally posted by h1a8
3. F=MA (this is the most important point that proves it)
A simple equation proves nothing in this instance.
of.
Originally posted by h1a8
4. Spidey combos CA to ko within the first 5 seconds.
Five seconds, hm?
"He's hit me three times. I didn't get him once. Elapsed time - ten seconds."
So much for that theory.
Originally posted by h1a8
If CA can match spidey then why do us experts on common sense think that he can't? I think this thread is spite. I know CA won't get any wins. In fact SM beats him in 5 seconds or less everytime. And I'm being totally honest and truthful. What say you?
Because this forum isn't about what you self-titled 'experts' believe ( I wouldn't mind seeing your degree, by the way. I very much doubt you graduated with honors in...*cough* 'Common Sense,' seeing that common sense would lead you to realize that you're in a COMIC BOOK VERSUS FORUM). You're not being honest and truthful. You're deluding yourself.
Originally posted by SoljerRemember the scan showing the bullet slowly inching up on Spidey from behind? When the bullet is probably inches away SM turns and sees it then nonchalantly gets out of the way watching the bullet in slow motion pass him.Further; where has Spidey seen bullets in slow motion? I haven't seen you post any scans of as much, H1.
Plus if one has reflexes 40x that of a human then they will see things 40x slower. When I first played baseball and seen my first fastball at the plate I couldn't even see the ball. It was a complete flash across my eyes. But many years later (playing college ball) I can now see a 85-90 mph fastball (vs. the 50-60mph little league one that appeared to be a flash to me) like it is just floating in slow motion (well almost). This is because my reflexes had increased greatly over the many years of playing baseball.
And, if they see each other as stationary, why would it be at least a stalemate in Parker's favor and not vice versa, considering Cap's monumental skill and strategic advantages?
Originally posted by darthgoober
Tell you what, why don't we go ahead and do the unbiased thing and apply your logic equally to both characters for a second...Now Peter weighs less than 200 lbs(and his size physique would certainly not allow for him to lift more than that if he wasn't enhanced) right? So a 40x increase to his strength would put his MAXIMUM lifting strength at about 8,000 lbs(which is right on par with Spidey's early appearances) so by your logic, any time Peter's lifted more than 4 tons it HAS to be a case of PIS because it doesn't "make sense" for him to lift more no matter how many times he's done it 😱 .
Where do you get that he was only able to lift 4tons?