Hank Henshaw vs Darkseid

Originally posted by Avlon
If someone kills you with a knife tomorrow, are you somehow immune to it today if it's still you?

Read it a long time ago, that's why I'm not using it as evidence. Still funny though.

Exactly what I've been debating since the beginning. Henshaw can get his wins...it's definitely not out of his range. With creativity, there are ways they can take each other out.

It's a good fight though. At least until we see what upgrade DS gets in final crisis.

Thats like me arguing for the Surfer vs Odin even though he was oneshotted. Its that bad.

Henshaw+the rings could beat Darkseid the exact same way Dooms did.

Originally posted by jadervason
Henshaw+the rings could beat Darkseid the exact same way Dooms did.

Now if I didnt allow Darkseid his powers and turned this into a brawl Henshaw wins.

There is no proof Dooms could survive the omega beams the way Henshaw didn't.

Originally posted by jadervason
There is no proof Dooms could survive the omega beams the way Henshaw didn't.

No, if it had been full strength, Darkseid wouldn't have had to amp it up the second time only to get knee'd in the face before he could let it go.

Darkseid still prevails

If we consider that the only reason Henshaw loses to superman is because he is blinded by rage, then it is foolish to say darkseid would win if a regular superman is enough to overcome him, seeing as cyborg superman is his superior in every way and furthermore has power rings.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Really? 😕 My comment was talking about the potency of the omega beams as shown in the comic. If you want to go that route prove to me that reality was the same as the main universe. Or show me when an alternate reality is the same as the main universe. As it has shown in the actual comics future timelines that were spawn from altering the main universe showed main character powers varied. Prove to me they didn't, as I have already given evidence where it has varied

You still haven't proved that anything had changed in that short term future. In the Rock of Ages storyline, the main change was that Superman was going to destroy the Warlogog and that would lead right into that timeline. Darkseid was going to conquer Earth at that point. So now, tell us if this DS is different in any way.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Who knows, as DS in the future as told by the Legion gets weaker in the future [physically]. So yeah there's doubt

Then that version of DS is noted as changed on panel then unlike the Rock of Ages direct future.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes, as different alternate realities which were the main universe showed the main characters had their powers altered. Can you prove it would work?

In the storyline you are referring to, their powers were said to be altered?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Nice dodge, so I guess a sentinel CAN incinerate Wolverine and I guess Cyclops CAN incinerate Wolverine's hand using your logic. What happens in different timelines which spawn their own reality does not make it the same as the main initial universe and that's a fact.

It's your example, not mine. If you have 5 different direct futures in which you die in 5 different ways, does that mean you can't die in those ways in the present? You've been dodging this for a while...

While the future may have been prevented, does that change that the method is still possible?

All I have asked for is reasonable doubt that method would not work. I could make a much better case for Henshaw but I really want to stay fair to both parties.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I dont ignore he was fighting Superman but I do question how you can be cheapshotted twice by the same guy. It happened but it also proved that Henshaw cant survive a fully recovered Darkseid blast. He can survive when darkseid is near death and in recovery mode though.

He obviously was dead-set on killing Superman. You even admitted it just now...he was cheapshotted. That won't be an issue now since we've removed Superman from the equation.

Darkseid was recovered just fine thanks to the motherbox. His standard OE blast hurt Supes, Borg, and Doomsday all the same.

His charged up peak blast only got borg because he was distracted.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Doomsday took a full blast while Henshaw couldnt. Cant you see the difference. The only reason Henshaw survived is because Darkseid put a hurting on him. Quit ignoring the context here it just shows the lengths youll go to. To try and give Henshaw a chance when he doesnt have one.

The scan showed that DD did NOT take a full blast. Darkseid was KO'D before that. The only one ignoring context here is you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos misjudged. He didnt get cheapshotted twice though like Henshaw. But Thanos isnt in this thread is he? He had powers to defeat Thanos while Darkseid s powers just erase Henshaw easily.

He didn't get cheapshotted twice because the 1st time killed him. If you would stop being purposely dense and completely biased towards your own characters, debating would be a lot more interesting.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Henshaw also begged him to release him as he is easily contained.

Again with silly lies. Easily contained while distracted fighting Superman and needing to cheapshot Henshaw with a fully charge up close OE?

If this was a Thanos thread, you would quickly claim that Mary slapped the OE away and it's useless, or how heat vision (which henshaw has) deflected it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
😂

LOL indeed. Seems like you are more interested in a trash talk fest than in actual debate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Doomsday got hit by Darkseid at full strength and it didnt even phase him. Henshaw was oneshotted when Darkseid was back at full strength.

Originally posted by Avlon
You still haven't proved that anything had changed in that short term future. In the Rock of Ages storyline, the main change was that Superman was going to destroy the Warlogog and that would lead right into that timeline. Darkseid was going to conquer Earth at that point. So now, tell us if this DS is different in any way.

......Wow how many times do I have to explain this? The AoA was created when Legion went back in time and killed Xavier resulting in that universe which was in fact the main universe since the manipulation and people's power and abilities varied even though they were using the main characters. Then in Days of Future Past was Marvel's main universes future which was created by the assassination of Senator Kelly and guess what? Their powers varied greatly from the present main universe, even though those two instances WERE at the time the main universe timeline till like Rock of Ages storyline was corrected

Originally posted by Avlon

Then that version of DS is noted as changed on panel then unlike the Rock of Ages direct future.

We know for a fact DS gets weaker in the future as the Legion timeline is said to be the future of the main DC universe and what was Rock of Ages?...set in the future. So I guess I can use Legion feats here as well then right?

Originally posted by Avlon

In the storyline you are referring to, their powers were said to be altered?

Directly showed, as some where stronger then what they were in the main universe before the divergent timeline or significantly weaker

Originally posted by Avlon

It's your example, not mine. If you have 5 different direct futures in which you die in 5 different ways, does that mean you can't die in those ways in the present? You've been dodging this for a while...

While the future may have been prevented, does that change that the method is still possible?

All I have asked for is [b]reasonable doubt that method would not work. I could make a much better case for Henshaw but I really want to stay fair to both parties. [/B]

How the hell do you not get this? Have you actually read those Marvel titles? Those direct futures showed people can incinerate adamantium, so does that mean people like a Sentinel or Cylcops can do it in the present following your logic?

Yes, because as shown in other stories characters powers varied even though they were set in the future

and I have provided thus, showing why you shouldn't use alternate realities and the fact Darkseid gets weaker physically in the future. Show me proof that move can work on present main universe Darkseid

Originally posted by Avlon
He obviously was dead-set on killing Superman. You even admitted it just now...he was cheapshotted. That won't be an issue now since we've removed Superman from the equation.

Darkseid was recovered just fine thanks to the motherbox. His standard OE blast hurt Supes, Borg, and Doomsday all the same.

His charged up peak blast only got borg because he was distracted.

The scan showed that DD did NOT take a full blast. Darkseid was KO'D before that. The only one ignoring context here is you.

He didn't get cheapshotted twice because the 1st time killed him. If you would stop being purposely dense and completely biased towards your own characters, debating would be a lot more interesting.

Again with silly lies. Easily contained while distracted fighting Superman and needing to cheapshot Henshaw with a fully charge up close OE?

If this was a Thanos thread, you would quickly claim that Mary slapped the OE away and it's useless, or how heat vision (which henshaw has) deflected it.

LOL indeed. Seems like you are more interested in a trash talk fest than in actual debate.

He was still recovering. He said it wasnt at full blast when he hit him the second time. He was destroyed when he fully recovered. You are so biased it is plain to see here as the scans prove you are wrong.

Thanos has never met Darkseid so its a valid argument while Henshaw did and lost badly. He knew darkseid was there and could not avoid it and fully knew darkseid was present. Henshaw cant deflect it as I have never seen him and its all canon. 🙂

I am more interested in presenting you with the facts and you still seem to twist them for one of your favorite characters.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
actually if you read it when supes said he was surprised Darkseid was beaten by DD DS said he was nowhere near full power when it happened. So when DS killed DD the first time his OE was nowhere near full power.

Originally posted by -K-M-
......Wow how many times do I have to explain this? The AoA was created when Legion went back in time and killed Xavier resulting in that universe which was in fact the main universe since the manipulation and people's power and abilities varied even though they were using the main characters. Then in Days of Future Past was Marvel's main universes future which was created by the assassination of Senator Kelly and guess what? Their powers varied greatly from the present main universe, even though those two instances WERE at the time the main universe timeline till like Rock of Ages storyline was corrected

You're still rambling about Marvel titles which are unrelated KM.

Originally posted by -K-M-
We know for a fact DS gets weaker in the future as the Legion timeline is said to be the future of the main DC universe and what was Rock of Ages?...set in the future. So I guess I can use Legion feats here as well then right?

I see you haven't been reading my responses with that answer. See again, I don't feel the need to repeat myself.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Directly showed, as some where stronger then what they were in the main universe before the divergent timeline or significantly weaker

That's great for an xmen storyline. Still doesn't tie in to what we were discussing...or frankly, what you've obviously have been ignoring judging by your responses asking if I read that storyline...

Originally posted by -K-M-
How the hell do you not get this? Have you actually read those Marvel titles?

Have you actually read any of my responses? This again proves you haven't... I have not debated NOR have I READ the Marvel titles that you speak of...

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes, because as shown in other stories characters powers varied even though they were set in the future

and I have provided thus, showing why you shouldn't use alternate realities and the fact Darkseid gets weaker physically in the future.

You have talked about the x-men while we're speaking of the Rock of Ages storyline..AND you have avoided my single questions.

Originally posted by Avlon
You're still rambling about Marvel titles which are unrelated KM.

Thier related, as your using a altenerate universe timeline as a powerlevel for main Darkseid. You even brought up Darkseid in Martian Manhunter 1,000,000...Come on. Show me that timeline then had no differences in power then, as in the future in that timeline Superman was still Electric Superman before his eventually death not wanting to side with Darkseid 😬

Originally posted by Avlon

I see you haven't been reading my responses with that answer. See again, I don't feel the need to repeat myself.

Oh the irony

Originally posted by Avlon

That's great for an xmen storyline. Still doesn't tie in to what we were discussing...or frankly, what you've obviously have been ignoring judging by your responses asking if I read that storyline...

Oh my god, it's the exact same principle you tried to pass off as a viable tactic for main Darkseid.

Originally posted by Avlon
Have you actually read any of my responses? This again proves you haven't... I have not debated NOR have I READ the Marvel titles that you speak of...

Great, so I provide evidence to suggest why you shouldn't use an alternate reality and then you tell me I'm ignoring responses yet you don't actually provide evidence to suggest why that Darkseid would be the same as the main universe Darkseid

Originally posted by Avlon

You have talked about the x-men while we're speaking of the Rock of Ages storyline..AND you have avoided my single questions.

No I havn't, but I see you have yet to provide evidence. So like I said can I use Legion feats here? As your bringing up 1,000,000 incidents as well as from Rock of Ages which were set in the future
====
Well then with your logic I'm using Legion feats then and Darkseid beats Cyborg 10/10 and with ease

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said it wasnt a cheapshot but it also shows that Henshaw went stupid and like he forgot Darkseid was there and did nothing to prevent or defend himself from another obeam.

Look at how quickly you contradict yourself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I dont ignore he was fighting Superman but I do question how you can be cheapshotted twice by the same guy.[/]

=========================================

[i]Originally posted by quanchi112
He was still recovering. He said it wasnt at full blast when he hit him the second time. He was destroyed when he fully recovered. You are so biased it is plain to see here as the scans prove you are wrong.

You're the one screaming "one shot" when it's obviously a lot more than that. I've given a good vote on this... meanwhile you are screaming 10/10... you my friend..are the biased one.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos has never met Darkseid so its a valid argument while Henshaw did and lost badly. He knew darkseid was there and could not avoid it and fully knew darkseid was present. Henshaw cant deflect it as I have never seen him and its all canon. 🙂

Matter manip is in Darkseids power set. You're so biased it's just sad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am more interested in presenting you with the facts and you still seem to twist them for one of your favorite characters.

I'm sorry that I don't debate with "he has heart" instead of facts unlike you. Maybe you want to bring up the Odin vs Thanos thread where you thought Thanos could beat Odin. There is a testament to bias.

I've only stated what's on panel. 2 OE's, and battling superman simultaneously...and it was a far weaker borg than the one we are using in this thread.

You want to cry "bias" while you're the one ignoring evidence and playing brick wall. That plus it's obvious you aren't debating..you're simply attempting to cause chaos. I look forward to your next ban at this point. It's obvious you aren't going to change. 🙂

Originally posted by Avlon
Look at how quickly you contradict yourself.

=========================================

You're the one screaming "one shot" when it's obviously a lot more than that. I've given a good vote on this... meanwhile you are screaming 10/10... you my friend..are the biased one.

Matter manip is in Darkseids power set. You're so biased it's just sad.

I'm sorry that I don't debate with "he has heart" instead of facts unlike you. Maybe you want to bring up the Odin vs Thanos thread where you thought Thanos could beat Odin. There is a testament to bias.

I've only stated what's on panel. 2 OE's, and battling superman simultaneously...and it was a far weaker borg than the one we are using in this thread.

You want to cry "bias" while you're the one ignoring evidence and playing brick wall. That plus it's obvious you aren't debating..you're simply attempting to cause chaos. I look forward to your next ban at this point. It's obvious you aren't going to change. 🙂

Matter manipulation is in the Surfers power set. But its ok you dont read marvel so I will excuse your ignorance here yet again. That and the fact that Thanos was resurrected and was a lot more powerful and that it never happened since his first resurrection. He also fought a foe time and time again with this in his powerset and defeated him esily time and time again. 😉

Prove that these rings amp his durability. Henshaw seemed only to use these rings to amp his punches and create weapon constructs. Not all wielders of the rings are the asame. Not at all. 😉

You say you look forward to my ban. Wow you take this so personal and actually encourage this. i am not bashing you at all yet you remain uncivil to me. If I bother you ignore me but dont sa I cant wait till you get banned. Thats in poor taste.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was cheapshotted but to happen twice you have to say what the hell did you expect? Did he expect Darkseid to leave and not bother him any further. Shame on Henshaw for allowing someone to cheapshot him twice. Its idiotic to allow someone to suck punch you twice.

Circular argument. It's been proven that you're wrong already.

M

Originally posted by quanchi112
atter manipulation is in the Surfers power set. But its ok you dont read marvel so I will excuse your ignorance here yet again. That and the fact that Thanos was resurrected and was a lot more powerful and that it never happened since his first resurrection. He also fought a foe time and time again with this in his powerset and defeated him esily time and time again. 😉

Has he tried it? The one time it was tried, it worked. 🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove that these rings amp his durability. Henshaw seemed only to use these rings to amp his punches and create weapon constructs. Not all wielders of the rings are the asame. Not at all. 😉

Punches strong enough to ko Superman in 3 hits. Whereas DS needed to use the OE twice... both while henshaw was distracted.

There are different ways to go about this fight where both opponents get their opportunity to win. Of course, you want to ignore this and make silly claims.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You say you look forward to my ban. Wow you take this so personal and actually encourage this. i am not bashing you at all yet you remain uncivil to me. If I bother you ignore me but dont sa I cant wait till you get banned. Thats in poor taste.

LOL... Seems like you have a very selective memory. Poor taste is being a complete brick wall and repeating the same thing over and over circularly. Then there is the fact that you actually follow behind me in debates to troll purposely. =-)

Thanks though. Since you asked..I'll put you on ignore. 🙂

Originally posted by Avlon
Circular argument. It's been proven that you're wrong already.

M

Has he tried it? The one time it was tried, it worked. 🙂

Punches strong enough to ko Superman in 3 hits. Whereas DS needed to use the OE twice... both while henshaw was distracted.

There are different ways to go about this fight where both opponents get their opportunity to win. Of course, you want to ignore this and make silly claims.

LOL... Seems like you have a very selective memory. Poor taste is being a complete brick wall and repeating the same thing over and over circularly. Then there is the fact that you actually follow behind me in debates to troll purposely. =-)

Thanks though. Since you asked..I'll put you on ignore. 🙂

Again you know little of marvel titles and characters. So Il explain it yet again. The reason I explain things to you over and over is because you dont get it or continually argue with me when I debate with you.

Thanos was resurrected and was amped permanently considerably. He has foguht the Surfer over and over again. He isnt someone who is easily dealt with. If all it took was matter manipulation then he wouldnt be the force he is. Thanos was taken by surprise and it was by Warlocks ghost who was obvioulsy more powerful than Warlock while alive. Thanos killed him to being with, Warlock came back and did something he couldnt do while alive. He did this to a weaker Thanos in ghost form and Thanos has beaten down the Surfer who can matter manipulate quite easily time and time again. 🙂

That and also the fact that Thanos survived reality manipulation in Thanos quest as he always stays true to form no matter the reality. This happened after his resurrection. So since he hasnt been defeated by matter manipulation since it only makes since he cant be as he has fought a hero who can do this in his sleep time and time again. 🙂

I agreed that Henshaw could win this if it came down to a physical brawl. But it doesnt and wont.

I recommended putting me on ignore because you seem to get personal and attack me all the time. It seems I bother you just because I disagree. I think youll be much happier this way. Ds wins 10 of 10 as the omega easily defeats him.

Best of luck avlon. 😉