Who can beat the Spectre?

Originally posted by Mr.Biscuits
Even if you read the books you wouldn't understand them, cause it is you after all.
Besides he wasn't tormenting the Spectre, it was Hal Jordan.
How do you torment the Spectre, really?

Check the Volume 4 section of my thread and you'll see amost of the encounters between Spectre and Stigmonus.

Again the Spectre is dependent on his host because when hes hostless I have seen Eclipso manipulate him into destroying magic even though in reality he wasnt destroying anything. So it would be better t have a host then some witless ghost running around the dcu being a jackass and doing harm to the universe and himself.

With regards to the Jokerized Parallax manifestation, it's clear from 'Green Lantern: Rebirth,' that Spectre only managed to absorb that manifestation back into himself and not into "all that is" as he thought he did. And either way, according to the Parallax entity himself, that is exactly where he wanted to be since he could usurp the Spectre's power from within by manipulating Hal Jordan's fear and operate virtually unaffected by the Spectre's wrath powers.

Originally posted by Mr.Biscuits
Even if you read the books you wouldn't understand them, cause it is you after all.
Besides he wasn't tormenting the Spectre, it was Hal Jordan.
How do you torment the Spectre, really?

Check the Volume 4 section of my thread and you'll see amost of the encounters between Spectre and Stigmonus.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes the Spectre couldnt permanently erase Darkseid. This character seems interesing also the one who exists just to torment the Spectre. I knew the Spectres powers and what not were exaggerated. I admit hes very powerful but this Stigmonus it seems existed to torture the Spectre. Wow. Someone was bullying the Spectre. And some posters compare him to the Lt.

What issues may I ask did this tormenting of the Spectre take place? 😄

😂

This has gone to the point where it's hilarious.

How do you absorb the Spectre's power, really? Ask the Quoex, because they did it

You mean absorb the power of an unsconscious aspect of Spectre's mind, a source of untapped energy ? Details, eh ?

How do you torment the Spectre? Stigmonus does it. Reread your own issues to find out. And maybe do some people a favor and fix all your broken links. I did that you selectively posted Spectre trapping Stigmonus in an illusion of misery and agony, but don't post the reveal that he knows it's an illusion and gets out and keeps on tormenting him for his own ambiguous purposes afterwards. But that's your choice and I understand why you'd do that cause it is you after all. (Whatever that means).

😂

Pretty much everytime when Spectre got serious in the series he trashes Stigmonus.

Featwise, the Living Tribunal would overpower the Source and kill Darkseid for good.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
You mean absorb the power of an unsconscious aspect of Spectre's mind, a source of untapped energy ? Details, eh?

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
😂

Pretty much everytime when Spectre got serious in the series he trashes Stigmonus.

Pretty much everytime when he thought he trashed Stigmonus, it turns out he hadn't really accomplished a damn thing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Truth.

Then what was the point of bringing it up ?

Not to mention that it seems you're constantly concentrating on Spectre's low showings. I also remember you debating against him in the Ganthet vs Spectre thread.

You hate this character or something ?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

😂

Pretty much everytime when he thought he trashed Stigmonus, it turns out he hadn't really accomplished a damn thing.

He easily dispelled of him in the first appearances he had, without trying to kill him.

The time he got relativly serious, he actually transformed himself in a living tumor and became all that Stigmonus was, amplified. It was at this point that Stigmonus revealed that killing him would represent killing every being on the planet, and that he can't really die.

Stigmonus was more of a phylosophical, intelectual adversary than a fighting one, so using him as a 'low' showing for Spectre doesn't really cut it.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Then what was the point of bringing it up ?

Not to mention that it seems you're constantly concentrating on Spectre's low showings. I also remember you debating against him in the Ganthet vs Spectre thread.

You hate this character or something ?

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
He easily dispelled of him in the first appearances he had, without trying to kill him.

The time he got relativly serious, he actually transformed himself in a living tumor and became all that Stigmonus was, amplified. It was at this point that Stigmonus revealed that killing him would represent killing every being on the planet, and that he can't really die.

Stigmonus was more of a phylosophical, intelectual adversary than a fighting one, so using him as a 'low' showing for Spectre doesn't really cut it.

You trying to argue that this doesn't represent a limitation of a hosted Spectre's powers doesn't really cut it either. It sounds more like you're making excuses or arguing semantics because you're a fan of the Spectre and don't like his limitations being pointed out publicly.

The Ganthet vs. Spectre thread evolved out of a misprint in 'Green Lantern: Rebirth,' where the Power of the Guardians was both quoted and depicted as being more powerful than the Spectre's power. Which made sense to me when you consider classic Ion. But this thread is about who can beat a hosted Spectre. I gave several instances where Spectre's power came up short to illustrate what it would take to do so. I didn't even make the thread, I'm just participating in it.

Ganthet saying that he more powerfull than Spectre certainly doesn't mean anything, especially since he hasn't shown anything to back it up with.

This made sense to you considering Classic Ion ? What did Classic Ion do that made you think Ganthet can beat Spectre ?

Even if you were focusing on trying to make Spectre weaker than he is, the example you used involving the Quoex and Stigmonus are still invalid.

He dispelled who? Stigmonus kept showing up. If I BFR you and you come back and mock me, that's not saying much. I also don't characterize his failure to deal with Stigmonus as a "low showing." Personally, what Stigmonus actually was baffled me to no end, especially when at the end of the series it appeared that Stigmonus was trying to educate Hal Jordan Spectre in a Zoom-like deranged manner... except Stigmonus appeared to have a deeper personal motive that was never revealed. Point is, Stigmonus' defeat and/or banishment was beyond a hosted-Spectre powers.

You trying to argue that this doesn't represent a limitation of a hosted Spectre's powers doesn't really cut it either. It sounds more like you're making excuses or arguing semantics because you're a fan of the Spectre and don't like his limitations being pointed out publicly.

The fact that he kept showing up is irrelevant, my point was that he has twice disposed of Stigmonus without the aformentioned being able to do anything.

Stigmonus's defeat is beyond a hosted Spectre's power ? Prove that.

And no, this doesn't represent a limitation on Spectre's power, obviously. This was more about Stigmonus and Hal Jordan's conception of the world than a testament of Spectre's power.

The Spectre has a weakness in the form of Hal Jordan, is a real weakness but people try to treat it as it was nothing.

Ganthet is at best as powerful as the guys on the quintessence. not the spectre. it's obvious that each spectre varies. It has just been said that the spectre is the most powerful thing in creation. Everythin else is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Ganthet saying that he more powerfull than Spectre certainly doesn't mean anything, especially since he hasn't shown anything to back it up with.

This made sense to you considering Classic Ion ? What did Classic Ion do that made you think Ganthet can beat Spectre ?

Even if you were focusing on trying to make Spectre weaker than he is, the example you used involving the Quoex and Stigmonus are still invalid.

The fact that he kept showing up is irrelevant, my point was that he has twice disposed of Stigmonus without the aformentioned being able to do anything.

Stigmonus's defeat is beyond a hosted Spectre's power ? Prove that.

And no, this doesn't represent a limitation on Spectre's power, obviously. This was more about Stigmonus and Hal Jordan's conception of the world than a testament of Spectre's power.

Correct, if a hero deals with an enemy, and he's out of the picture for several issues, and shows back up, he was still the decisive winner. And it's not that Spectre's power coming up short, so much as it was Hal having trouble comprehending the level Spectre[and it's enemies] plays on. And he is ultimately the catalyst for Spectre's power.

The problem is in monsconstruing when Spectre's power actually comes up short, compared to someone messing with the Host half of the bond, and then ultimately being defeated once he figured it out.

It's quite clear that someone is using half-truths and misconstruing events on purpose to try to desperately reach for every edge that they can here in a sad attempt to belittle the character.

Originally posted by Juntai
👆

Correct, if a hero deals with an enemy, and he's out of the picture for several issues, and shows back up, he was still the decisive winner. And it's not that Spectre's power coming up short, so much as it was Hal having trouble comprehending the level Spectre[and it's enemies] plays on. And he is ultimately the catalyst for Spectre's power.

The problem is in monsconstruing when Spectre's power actually comes up short, compared to someone messing with the Host half of the bond, and then ultimately being defeated once he figured it out.

It's quite clear that someone is using half-truths and misconstruing events on purpose to try to desperately reach for every edge that they can here in a sad attempt to belittle the character.

But not knowing how to use the character's full power is a weakness, give Batman Superman's powers and people will argue he has no experience with them and thus cannot use the full potential. With the Spectre people take everything like an autowin just because of the potential he has and not the thing he would actually do -like the mythical 100% Galactus.

It's one thing to try to point out a characters shortcoming, but it's another thing to misconstrue events and try to create your own that didn't exist previously.

As such;

Nevertheless, with respect to this thread, I've argued this waaaaay back when. Anybody wielding the Power of the Guardians can defeat the Spectre. I riled a hornet's nest here, years ago, when I argued that position when Geoff Johns referred to the Power of the Guardians as dwarfing the Spectre's power in 'Green Lantern: Rebirth.' Nevertheless, I was too polite to mention that: 1) classic Ion (who wielded the entire Power of the Guardians) stated he could screw around with a hosted Spectre; and 2) Hal Jordan Spectre seemingly conceded that notion.

However, this would would be reliant on the fact that Hal wouldn't attempt to stop him, which is part of the idea of him pleading the case to Hal, saying he could fix it. We know that time is not a limitation upon the Spectre, and from reading Deadman: Dead Again, we see Hal manipulating some of the events that eventually led to him becoming Spectre.

Bottom-line, Parallax is not above Spectre. But neither is Spectre above Parallax.

Parallax isn't above Spectre in feats or in stature, the idea that he was still defeated, while wielding an outside power source well beyond his own capabilities is a clear marker for the fact. Unless of course, you got proof otherwise?

Oh, and Kyle as ION also contained the remaining energies of the central power battery, but reignited within him. Well beyond the capabilities of an individual Guardian. It's an outright lie about him merely having the Guardians power, and then you misconstrue the whole meeting with Hal and himself.

Originally posted by Juntai

It's quite clear that someone is using half-truths and misconstruing events on purpose to try to desperately reach for every edge that they can here in a sad attempt to belittle the character.

The tip of the iceberg maybe?

edit

Originally posted by Juntai
It's one thing to try to point out a characters shortcoming, but it's another thing to misconstrue events and try to create your own that didn't exist previously.

As such;

Going back in time and stopping say Hal Jordan from becoming Parallax -- which is what Kyle actually said he could do, rather than your ominous 'screwing' of Spectre -- would alter the timeline enough to that Hal would never die and go to purgatory, or ultimately becoming the Spectre.

However, this would would be reliant on the fact that Hal wouldn't attempt to stop him, which is part of the idea of him pleading the case to Hal, saying he could fix it. We know that time is not a limitation upon the Spectre, and from reading Deadman: Dead Again, we see Hal manipulating some of the events that eventually led to him becoming Spectre.

Originally posted by Juntai
Oh really? Because it seems to me, that Parallax after gaining a grip on Hal's soul, had Hal enter the Battery, to wield vastly more power than that of the Guardians, or Parallax himself wields, and burned out his power trying to defeat Spectre at the dawn of time. Meanwhile, Corrigan casually created a new Big Bang after Hal went powerless by dumping energy into Damage.

Originally posted by Juntai
Parallax isn't above Spectre in feats or in stature, the idea that he was still defeated, while wielding an outside power source well beyond his own capabilities is a clear marker for the fact. Unless of course, you got proof otherwise?

first of all, using time travel would be a self bfr. now sending back your powers would be different. and if someone changed the spectre's host, There would still be a spectre and that spectre may not be so nice messing with the time stream like that would constitue a violation of the natural laws and would bring down the hand of the spectre.

wait, it seems that the spectre would plead with kyle not to mess with time or there would be ramifications. maybe hal didn't want to have to spank kyle. our parents often tell us not to do stuff. not that they can't stop us, but that if we do such things, we would suffer thier wrath.

Originally posted by Juntai
Oh, and Kyle as ION also contained the remaining energies of the central power battery, but reignited within him. Well beyond the capabilities of an individual Guardian. It's an outright lie about him merely having the Guardians power, and then you misconstrue the whole meeting with Hal and himself.

These events happened after 'Zero Hour.' Depending on how you read 'Zero Hour,' Hallax had pretty much lost all his energies creating a new universe. Which is why after 'Zero Hour,' Hallax tried to absorb Oa before Kyle destroyed it and confronted Ganthet in the above scans. Once Ganthet gave his personal power to Hallax he went around doing stuff like defeating Cyborg and restoring the Earth from all the damage the Suneater wrought in 'Final Night.'

And depending on how you interpret classic Ion's power, ask yourself this: Where exactly did all the left over energies of the Power of the Guardians originally come from? They were contained in Hallax's body and absorbed by Kyle, sure. But if 'Zero Hour' diminished those original accumulated Central Power Battery's energies... what was the ultimate source of Kyle's classic Ion powers? Maybe the more appropriate question is, "Who?"

Originally posted by fangirl101
wait, it seems that the spectre would plead with kyle not to mess with time or there would be ramifications. maybe hal didn't want to have to spank kyle. our parents often tell us not to do stuff. not that they can't stop us, but that if we do such things, we would suffer thier wrath.