Exile vs Revan

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I think the line in the Chronicles isn't stressed enough his dark power at the very beginning of his Sith tenure was called "Tremendous" defined as:

1: being such as may excite trembling or arouse dread, awe, or terror
2 a: notable by reason of extreme size, power, greatness, or excellence

Following this line it was stated that his power only countiued to grow, what surpasses the adjective tremendous? It seems that stronger words like colossal, monsterous and such are only synoyms. So his as the dicitnary defines it awe inspiring, trembling enducing power seems to only rise, then in KOTOR after having his mind wiped of the terrible power he once held, were told that he is simply STRONGER then what-ever seems to surpass tremendous.

After KOTOR1 in part two of the series where given a revelation that Revan regained all his previous memories, and along with his old sense of identity comes the return of the knowledge and dark powers, cultures he studied, fighting techniques he learned, force powers he held before his mind wipe that made him "tremendous" in the first place. So that doubled with his power in KOTOR, makes for one scarily powerful force user at its end result, one that I wouldn't hesitate for a second to put on Yoda and Vastors level.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

Its in the book, so its canon, however shitty it is, and yes there were ALOT of extenuating circumstances that allowed Jaina to win, part of them being Jacen is a complete f*cking loon and was injured before both the duels.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx

I know you SEE them as equals but your going to have to offer up some evidence that they actually ARE equals in anyway.

- Kreia saying it was as if looking into the heart of the force

- Jolee literally seeing the force swirl around him

Neither of these relate to power. Kreia's comment is just wierd and doesn't really mean much anyway and Jolee's comment was clearly about Destiny, not power, as he then goes on to talk about destiny and that odd story, and in fact says that Revan has a great destiny. Not power.

- He being called a prodigy by Vandar at the end of KOTOR, and a prodigy as a knight before the mind wipe

Revan was called 'the Prodigal Knight' at the end of KOTOR, which means that she perfectly represented the Jedi order of the time.

- Having the most complete knowledge of the Dark Side of the force that is second only too Palpatine that we know of

All of which were lost after the mind wipe untill after the end of KOTOR 1. Knightfall clearly said that this was Revan at the end of the game, so she would not have regained this knowledge.

- Had the most advanced, highly developed form of Battle Precognition that allowed him to see the outcome of battles months into the future. (Anther thing that puts him above Darth Cadick whose only precognition failed him and lured him into the clutches of Lumiya)

This was a theory put forward by the Handmaiden. However, as the handmainden wasn't actually a canonal member of the party (you only got her if you were male), this can be discounted.

Having his name be synonymous with power

- Bastila was literally feeling overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of his power

??????

- His force mastery (that you conveniently ignored) that surpasses Caedus whom himself surpassed Vader in terms of force power, who is you know 80% of Darth f*cking Sidious

First, thats the wrong Revan and second, What???? Where has that been stated?

- Him ripping through the Star Forges defense that were called a match for any Jedi, then beating Bastilla multiple times while she was being constantly revived and amped up by the Star Forge, THEN proceeding to beat Malak at least 2 times in a row while he was empowered by the Star Forge and revived by the life force of dead Jedi.

- Her ripping through countless Sith which had almost wiped out the Jedi, then beating Sion multiple times when he was constantly being revived and amped by the power of malachor V, THEN beating Kreia twice as well when she was impowered by malachor and beating 3 floating lightsabers each with a mind of its own .

Equalled.

- Surviving and not being broken by the Dark Side power of Malachor (a PLANET full of raw Dark Side energy, which Kreia was broken by)

- His force bonding ability that he used en mass on his followers according to Kreia

Both of which the Exile has Equalled, yet actually surpassed Revan with the Force-bonding.

- During his start as Dark Lord the chronicles say his dark power was "tremendous" and only continued to grow, then in KOTOR he's stated as being stronger then he EVER was as the Dark Lord.

The Exiles power could also be called 'tremendous', judging from her victories and her shear stamina, and the Exile's power continues to grow as well.

- Revan using force storms to slaughter Rataka scouting parties on Lehon

Traya used Force drain to kill dozens of Sith, yet was still raped by the Exile. And the Current Revan doesn't now how to do Force Storm.

- He slaughters the Sith Academy by himself (showed in KOTOR1, confirmed by Kreia in KOTOR 2)

- She slauhtered a much bigger Sith academy by herself, and What? Revan had two party members to help.

They are very much the same in my eyes: using the force to manipulate the mind and force something IN or OUT, they were both met with opposition: Revan was being attacked by the Raataka and had to force the info in so they could understand him and Fetts daughter was naturally being defiant to the torture Solo was unleashing. The difference is Revans force mastery allowed him to succeed on a mass scale where Solo failed with a single person.

NOT THIS REVAN. And someone with high force mastery can still get beaten by someone with high power Exile>Traya&Atris.

Sorry, but everything shows them to be equals at this point.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Neither of these relate to power. Kreia's comment is just wierd and doesn't really mean much anyway and Jolee's comment was clearly about Destiny, not power, as he then goes on to talk about destiny and that odd story, and in fact says that Revan has a great destiny. Not power.

All of which were lost after the mind wipe untill after the end of KOTOR 1. Knightfall clearly said that this was Revan [b]at the end of the game, so she would not have regained this knowledge.

This was a theory put forward by the Handmaiden. However, as the handmainden wasn't actually a canonal member of the party (you only got her if you were male), this can be discounted.

??????

First, thats the wrong Revan and second, What???? Where has that been stated?

- Her ripping through countless Sith which had almost wiped out the Jedi, then beating Sion multiple times when he was constantly being revived and amped by the power of malachor V, THEN beating Kreia twice as well when she was impowered by malachor and beating 3 floating lightsabers each with a mind of its own .

Equalled.

I don't think we're quite equaled out on the Revan/Exile scale.

Both of which the Exile has Equalled, yet actually surpassed Revan with the Force-bonding.

The Exiles power could also be called 'tremendous', judging from her victories and her shear stamina, and the Exile's power continues to grow as well.

Traya used Force drain to kill dozens of Sith, yet was still raped by the Exile. And the Current Revan doesn't now how to do Force Storm.[quote]
A: You mean, the same Sith who were expecting to turn around and then get pwned by the sheer numbers? The same Sith who were going to try a surprise attack? Those Sith who weren't expecting her to do an insta-kill or know they were there? Those Sith?
B: Aided by the full Republic fleet, Revan—now in possession of the memories the Council had erased—killed Darth Malak and destroyed the Star Forge above Rakata Prime." - TNEC.

[quote]- She slauhtered a much bigger Sith academy by herself, and What? Revan had two party members to help.

NOT THIS REVAN. And someone with high force mastery can still get beaten by someone with high power Exile>Traya&Atris.

Sorry, but everything shows them to be equals at this point.

I'm more willing to hand it to Revan, the one whose a goddamn male.

This deserves yet anther: Lol Wut??? First off who the hell are you?

Neither of these relate to power. Kreia's comment is just wierd and doesn't really mean much anyway

Wait what? Please tell me almighty Darthwhaterever about what is and isn't canon, about what does and doesn't hold weight, because apparently you seem to have enough clout with LFL that you can simply say "Lulz its weird, not true." um no kiddo, If your going to attempt to assert something, your going to have to back it up with something called: PROOF, I know this is a foreign concept to you new n00blets on this forum, but really the Burden still stands, prove up son.

Not that you could reasonably anyways, since there is only ONE correct way to interpret her statement: The way I posted it. The statement RIGHT before the heart of the force comment said this: "Revan was power." So please do tell as I'm very eger to know how that DOESN'T relate to Revans general awesomeness?

Kreia's connection to Revan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44GeQp6ZFtc 2:18, look at it, learn, then come back and admit your fail.

and Jolee's comment was clearly about Destiny, not power, as he then goes on to talk about destiny and that odd story, and in fact says that Revan has a great destiny. Not power.

So wait, seeing the force move around an individual, simply means destiny now? Huh I'd guess Luke in DE would like to have a word with you:

And anther picture in the book shows this as well, when he destroys the AT AT, but thats not his power! No! Its simply his DESTINY moving around him, somehow DESTINY is the reflection of the force moving around you...Let me clue you in, the force swirling around individuals is their power, and that power is what causes the Jedi to harp on about destiny, because normally its not Jedi/Sith John Doe whom does so galaxy changing shit, its the abnormally powerful ones like Kun, Ulic, Revan, Bane, Nomi, Luke, Anakin, Jacen etc, etc, etc...

Revan was called 'the Prodigal Knight' at the end of KOTOR, which means that she perfectly represented the Jedi order of the time.

OR it means simply what it says: He was a prodigy, which is backed up by his former self being called it as well before his fall. Stop trying to interpret things: your not smart enough.

All of which were lost after the mind wipe untill after the end of KOTOR 1. Knightfall clearly said that this was Revan at the end of the game, so she would not have regained this knowledge.

"super godly star forge uberness revan (revan at his peak)"

If you need to purposely choose weaker forms of Revan so the Exile can have a chance (not that she does anyways), that speaks to your sides lack of actual evidence to back up your silly claims that their equal.

Then theres this:

Aided by the full Republic fleet, Revan—now in possession of the memories the Council had erased—killed Darth Malak and destroyed the Star Forge above Rakata Prime." - NEC

And Revan is a dude foo.

This was a theory put forward by the Handmaiden. However, as the handmainden wasn't actually a canonal member of the party (you only got her if you were male), this can be discounted.

Once again no, simply because she isn't their doesn't make what she said non canon, does her not being there also mean Arren Kae isn't her mother? Or Yusanis isn't her father, and Kae DIDN'T die at Malachor, and Yusanis DIDN'T get owned by Revan...I could go on.

Simply because she's a non canon party member (which itself remains to be seen as LFL can simply say "They were both there lulz."😉 doesn't change the fact that information she relayed that has NO affect on the KOTOR2 storyline and is only background information, still happened. And considering Revan went head to head with the best of the Echani in all out war and MASSACRED them, I'd say he has an ability to counter their lead generals that all have that suped up Battle Precog.

And really its either the Battle Precognition, or Revan is such a tactical and strategic genius, that he could absolutely murk a people who's culture is built on warfare and have the ability to strategize battles months in the future. Neither outcome bodes well for the Exile side.

???????i ridez da shrt busss??????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwZ6nBT3erQ

Watch the start, She constantly harps on this in KOTOR1

First, thats the wrong Revan and second,

No its the right one. You just fail at reading comprehension

What???? Where has that been stated?

LOTF Invincible:

"For Caedus is a scion of both the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines whose command of the Force surpasses even that of his grandfather"

- Her ripping through countless Sith which had almost wiped out the Jedi, then beating Sion multiple times when he was constantly being revived and amped by the power of malachor V, THEN beating Kreia twice as well when she was impowered by malachor and beating 3 floating lightsabers each with a mind of its own .

Equalled.

Ah no, I'm not going to argue the semantics of the Sion fight but suffice to say EVERYONE the Exile solo'd was weaker then Revan. And the Exile can sneak by every one of the starting Sith so that null and voids your "point". And this is after the taint of Malachor has been weakened so much that Mira and Hanharr can walk along the planet without even feeling the slightest bit odd, When Revan first arrived it was MUCH MUCH stronger place.

Both of which the Exile has Equalled, yet actually surpassed Revan with the Force-bonding.

Force bonding is her natural ability, and she uses it too leech of weak force users, Revan (whom had to LEARN it) used it to command an armada to commit genocide against their own homeworlds, to break hundreds of Jedi to the Dark Side, whatever the Exile seems to accomplish Revan always one ups her and does it better.

The Exiles power could also be called 'tremendous', judging from her victories and her shear stamina, and the Exile's power continues to grow as well.

Um no, thats your asinine opinion that no gives a shit about, mine is actual canon text, thats the difference between us.

Traya used Force drain to kill dozens of Sith, yet was still raped by the Exile.

"There are techniques in the force in which there is no defense."

The Exile just happens to be immune to these, Revan just happens to know these also.

NOT THIS REVAN. And someone with high force mastery can still get beaten by someone with high power Exile>Traya&Atris.

YES THIS REVAN. I'd like to think the difference between the power of Atris/Kreia and Revan is blatantly apparent.

Sorry, but everything shows them to be equals at this point.

Sorry, but everything shows you to be an utter failure at this point.

pwnt.

Not that you could reasonably anyways, since there is only ONE correct way to interpret her statement: The way I posted it. The statement RIGHT before the heart of the force comment said this: "Revan was power." So please do tell as I'm very eger to know how that DOESN'T relate to Revans general awesomeness?

"Heart of the Force" is smply hyperbole.... Using it as any evidence of power is ludicrous.

There is no "heart of the Force" for one... The closest thing be Jacen in the last NJO book. Does Revan equal him?

Aided by the full Republic fleet, Revan—now in possession of the memories the Council had erased—killed Darth Malak and destroyed the Star Forge above Rakata Prime." - NEC

As Advent and any objective party (ie. not you) has pointed out several times:
A) you can't quantify how powerful the SF made Malak.
B) You can't quantify how Revan actually won the fight.

So, it's useless.

"For Caedus is a scion of both the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines whose command of the Force surpasses even that of his grandfather"

Thank you for showing why quotes are basically worthless when unsupported by feats.

It doesn't matter if the quote is unsupported by feats canon is canon whether you like it or not.

Well I was thinking of destroying that point but I realized I made an error.
"surpasses even that of his grandfather""

For some reason (possibly drug-related) I thought it wa stalking about Luke. But it obviously meant the crippled half-droid Vader.

No worries then. The quote is fine.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
[B]"Heart of the Force" is smply hyperbole.... Using it as any evidence of power is ludicrous.

There is no "heart of the Force" for one... The closest thing be Jacen in the last NJO book. Does Revan equal him?

"Heart of the Force" is smply hyperbole.... Using it as any evidence of power is ludicrous.

It has its merits considering there was a half a page of other facts and quotes, that prove Revans all around general awesomeness. So ah go away failure...

As Advent and any objective party (ie. not you) has pointed out several times:
A) you can't quantify how powerful the SF made Malak.
B) You can't quantify how Revan actually won the fight.

So, it's useless.

I'd like to give anther: Who the f*ck are you?

*SWISHHHHH!!!* Hey listen everyone thats the sound THE POINT flying right over this handitard's head. If you weren't an utter moronic piss stain, you'd realize that I wasn't even talking about him beating Malak in that instance, I was talking about and proving that he regained his former memories from his past life.

Reading Comprehension>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This guy.

Thank you for showing why quotes are basically worthless when unsupported by feats.

LULZ FEAT WARS!!!

I haven't seen this much fail in a long time...

Ah no, I'm not going to argue the semantics of the Sion fight but suffice to say EVERYONE the Exile solo'd was weaker then Revan. And the Exile can sneak by every one of the starting Sith so that null and voids your "point".

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
And everyone Revan solo'd was weaker than the Exile. And Revan could sneak by most of the star forge defenses anyway, so yeah.

That argument if for anther day and you' probably lose that one too. Revan HAVES too fight the Star Forges Jedi killing droids, he HAVES to fight Bastila alone, He HAVES to fight Malak alone, all this within minutes of each other. Moreover who gives a shit, AGAIN Revan has laundry list of quotes and evidence to back him up where as The Exile has gameplay mechanics and headache inducing ramblings of fangirls.

So yeah. Next.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight

Thank you for showing why quotes are basically worthless when unsupported by feats.

I've read everything that's been posted on this thread and I've seen these arguments all before, and it comes down to the same thing for Revan in the context of this battle- insubstantial, irrelevant.

You mention any quote about Revan's force abilities, and I've known it before hand. Of course I've taken them into consideration but using quotes like "he's the heart of the force", don't mean anything.

Wasn't the Exile in turn described as the "death of the force"? That seems to be like ying & yang, two equal but opposing forces. Not nearly enough info on Revan to prove that he's a better combatant than the Exile - given the simple fact that their combat feats are clearly at the same level.

And stating his power was "tremendous", like that doesn't describe just about every celebrated dark jedi/sith? Of course I wouldn't note it, it's an unquantifiable description. Unless a canon source claims he was more powerful than so-so, then feats are all that count. A good example is Ragnos. He has no feats but we know he was stronger than Sadow and Kressh because he was their overlord and they feared his power, even when he was on his death bed.

As far Revan's knowledge is concerned we've never seen it put into practice. Malak who was Revan's apprentice, showed force lightning and force choke.

There's nothing to suggest that Revan used exotic techniques in combat that would absolutely confound the Exile, that just comes off as wishful thinking.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Uh, you do know the current Mandalore (Canderous) regards Revan as the single greatest warrior ever...

Yes! I played Kotor 1 several times. Canderous 5 years later stated in front of the Exile that he was wrong, that Revan wasn't the only exceptional Jedi of his time, that there was now the Exile.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
That argument if for anther day and you' probably lose that one too. Revan HAVES too fight the Star Forges Jedi killing droids, he HAVES to fight Bastila alone, He HAVES to fight Malak alone, all this within minutes of each other. Moreover who gives a shit, AGAIN Revan has laundry list of quotes and evidence to back him up where as The Exile has gameplay mechanics and headache inducing ramblings of fangirls.

So yeah. Next.

The part you don't get is that Revan was a prodigy of the Jedi order whereas the Exile became powerful because of her experiences, she was not merely born with a very powerful force connection, it came because of the Mando Wars. That's there difference.

And besides that we know from Malak's statement that the Jedi Masters spoke highly of the Exile's skills in combat before the Mando Wars. So we know she was noted for her combat ability as well.

Umm, aren't prodigies supposed to be oh, I don't know, greater than their counterparts in several ways? And I'm not seeing how 'Prodigal Knight' is the equivalent to 'The Guy Who Follows Every Mandate of the Order'.

I actually just looked up the word 'Prodigal' on the spell check and apparantly it means:wasteful, reckless, dissolute, profligate, extravagant, uncontrolled, cautious.
Which just confuses me, mabye its an oversight.

Aided by the full Republic fleet, Revan—now in possession of the memories the Council had erased—killed Darth Malak and destroyed the Star Forge above Rakata Prime." - The New Essential Chronology.

Notice that it doesn't say 'now in possession of all his memories', only the memories that the jedi masters had erased. And seeing as how Bastila said that revan was already in a bad way before the mind wipe and that she had already suffered sever damage, its not a huge stretch to suggest that Revan most of the memories herself and The Jedi masters simply helped that along. And anyway that quote completely contridicts the game in that Bastila says that revans memories are dead and that if you had recalled all the memories then you would have got much, much better that the relatively untrained status that Revan then possessed.

So because someone isn't there, all information obtainable from them is immediately null and void?

'Shrugs' It doesn't really matter as it was just a theory and so is not fact/canon.

Play "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" for the Sega Genesis.

1: Make me &
2: How does that have any relavance whatsoever.

Whoa, contradiction much?

it wasn't a contradiction, I was merely asking where it said that revan had greater Mastery than Caedus.

A: How do we know she bothered to kill them?
B: lol, she talked him to death.
C: So Kreia wants to kill the very thing she loves, kill the sole proof of her ideals, and skull**** the one piece of help Revan can get?

A: You can't sneak past them, trust me I've tried. They're even positioned next too doors so you have to stop sneaking next to them.
B: Revan also had to talk Bastila into giving up and anyway you still need to kill him a couple of times. In fact, if you keep killing him then he just realises that he's no match for you and dies anyway.
C: Her very philosophy was survival of the fittist, She was a Sith so didn't believe in mercy and Its very hard to still go easy on someone when they cut off your hand, trust me. It would have gone against her 'ideals' to go easy on the Exile.

This deserves yet anther: Lol Wut??? First off who the hell are you?

My Names Darth Exodus, pleased to meet you. 😉

So wait, seeing the force move around an individual, simply means destiny now?

The way I posted it. The statement RIGHT before the heart of the force comment said this: "Revan was power." So please do tell as I'm very eger to know how that DOESN'T relate to Revans general awesomeness?

trayas opinions do not = Fact.

She also said that the Exile was 'The greatest person [Traya] have ever trained'. So I guess that puts The Exile ahead of revan, huh?

OR it means simply what it says: He was a prodigy, which is backed up by his former self being called it as well before his fall. Stop trying to interpret things: your not smart enough.

Being a prodigy doesn't automatically put you above another powerful individual. Mabye you should try taking your own advice.

And really its either the Battle Precognition, or Revan is such a tactical and strategic genius, that he could absolutely murk a people who's culture is built on warfare and have the ability to strategize battles months in the future. Neither outcome bodes well for the Exile side.

revan's not going to be able to think the Exile dead. War Stragegy has no overall influence on close-combat. Also the Exile was Revans lead general, so isn't a slacker in that department.

I'd also like too bring up the fact that the Exile beat Revan on Korriban, I wonder if that has any reference, considering that it was most likely based off the abilities of Darth Revan.

Something too ponder on.

That was some of the dumbest crap I've ever read.

By the way Sexy, do you have a sister by any chance? I have a theory I want to test.