Where did God come from?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Cool. I'd never heard of that. Deathbed conversions aren't unheard of (though as you say ones involving major figures are generally questionable) but loss of faith moments before death has seemed essentially unheard of.

Besides the fact that there's less non-theists to propagate such stories, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that most theists consider themselves "saved" in one form or another. To convert is a noble goal to them, since they're saving others, by which they might employ false stories of the non-religious converting on their deathbed. I may have mentioned this already, but Richard Dawkins has said he has considered somehow taping his last moments (presuming it occurs naturally) to avoid such stories. It's really an amusingly widespread practice. Actually, I think he mentions the "conversions" of both Aquinas and Darwin in one of his essays in his book A Devil's Chaplain.

To the contrary with non-religious, I think what I believe is right, but I'm not about to consider it altruistic to covert someone, except if they are causing harm to others through their beliefs. When I speak against religion, it is because I see some ill in it and want it to stop, but I'm not doing it from some supposedly higher mandate. There's less incentive, since I'm largely content to leave beliefs as they are because there's no "saved" and "damned" individuals in my beliefs. The same can likely be said of most non-religious individuals, though that part is more educated guess than anything.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Besides the fact that there's less non-theists to propagate such stories, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that most theists consider themselves "saved" in one form or another. To convert is a noble goal to them, since they're saving others, by which they might employ false stories of the non-religious converting on their deathbed. I may have mentioned this already, but Richard Dawkins has said he has considered somehow taping his last moments (presuming it occurs naturally) to avoid such stories. It's really an amusingly widespread practice. Actually, I think he mentions the "conversions" of both Aquinas and Darwin in one of his essays in his book A Devil's Chaplain.

There's certainly a level of irony in having to lie to get converts but I think it's probably more likely than you're implying. Maybe not actual conversion, per say, but an impulse to hedge one's bets before dying wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Personally I'd love for Dawkins to tape his last moments and then suddenly convert in front of the cameras. For the lulz if nothing else.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
To the contrary with non-religious, I think what I believe is right, but I'm not about to consider it altruistic to covert someone, except if they are causing harm to others through their beliefs. When I speak against religion, it is because I see some ill in it and want it to stop, but I'm not doing it from some supposedly higher mandate. There's less incentive, since I'm largely content to leave beliefs as they are because there's no "saved" and "damned" individuals in my beliefs. The same can likely be said of most non-religious individuals, though that part is more educated guess than anything.

I've met (and live with) many theists who feel that forcibly converting someone is not a good thing. Most of them subscribe to the old Puritan "city on a hill" concept.

Something along the lines of:
"Hey you just risked your life to save us. Why did you do that?"
"In my faith it is a noble act to save others no matter the cost."
"Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

On the other hand most of the people I know that are atheists seem to very much consider themselves to be saving others by attacking their faith.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
On the other hand most of the people I know that are atheists seem to very much consider themselves to be saving others by attacking their faith.

They might just be lonely. They probably want company.

cry

Course, more seriously, it's also possible that they consider it a service to open others' minds or whatever. So then my secondary theory about why there's less theist-to-non-theist conversions goes out the window, and I have to jump back to the "well, there's less of them to propagate such stories"

Also, non-religiosity generally doesn't rely as much on sudden revelation and fear, but on intellectual arguments (not that theism can't be based on intellectualism as well) so the deathbed isn't the natural conversion place, whereas it would be for many theists. It's like saying you don't see too many people sleep in pools....it's just not a natural place for it to occur.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
They might just be lonely. They probably want company.

cry

😂

But then again maybe that's where god comes from. Need for sense of community and oneness.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Course, more seriously, it's also possible that they consider it a service to open others' minds or whatever. So then my secondary theory about why there's less theist-to-non-theist conversions goes out the window, and I have to jump back to the "well, there's less of them to propagate such stories"

It would be hard to ever be sure. Most people that believe they have the truth do try to spread it though.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, non-religiosity generally doesn't rely as much on sudden revelation and fear, but on intellectual arguments (not that theism can't be based on intellectualism as well) so the deathbed isn't the natural conversion place, whereas it would be for many theists. It's like saying you don't see too many people sleep in pools....it's just not a natural place for it to occur.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was trying to say about the likelyhood of people converting on their deathbed.

Agreed on the last two statements.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
😂

But then again maybe that's where god comes from. Need for sense of community and oneness.

That's the sociological aspect of religion. I find that a lot of people "believe" as much for the social aspect of their church community as the religion itself. It's certainly a draw of many religions and churches, but isn't an argument for that particular church or religion, just a testament to the intensely social nature of our species.

My sister has a Greek fiance, for example. Dude's family practically lives at their greek orthodox church, and there's weekly events and such. He could be an apathetic agnostic for all it matters, but stays there because of the shared community.

..

Also, off-topic, but sorry for the harshness a day or two ago. Some of it was warranted, but not all of it, and this forum tends to bring our the combatant in me. Anyway, you're a good guy.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, off-topic, but sorry for the harshness a day or two ago. Some of it was warranted, but not all of it, and this forum tends to bring our the combatant in me. Anyway, you're a good guy.

I apologize as well. It was rude and I should have realized that.

Originally posted by Kapton JAC
This is a question that I have been asked more times than I can count... Where did God come from? He couldn't have always been here, so where did he come from? Well lets think about this:

We are constrained by time, everything has a beginning, every thing has an end. But why does God have to be? Remove time from the equation. This is eternity, no beginning and no end, and this is, I believe, where God resides.

Debate please.

CORRECT!
777
LLL

FATE OF LIFE IS LIFE'S FATE to be god and be with god
GOD IS GOD
ALICE IS ALICE... but she looks just like him, it must be a coincidence, no?

I've met (and live with) many theists who feel that forcibly converting someone is not a good thing. Most of them subscribe to the old Puritan "city on a hill" concept.

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
How about forcibly, or at least trying, converting GOD? That's the ultimate challenge if G8D believes what you do, everyone does, one hit and all the birds, all the angels fall, all the men fall, everything falls and is like it was in the beginning...

A more active approach to "Pray not that god is on our side but that we are on god's side."?

Does God have a side, would God take a side?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A more active approach to "Pray not that god is on our side but that we are on god's side."?

HMMm, god's completely care free, just going around with friends and he's forgotten we're all here and real! I think a wake up call is in order, or the whole world will die once more, I'll say his name without saying it until he snaps out of the trance.

Originally posted by Robtard
Does God have a side

He/she/it/they could but we'll never really know. The sheer number of conflicting claims about god's side make it difficult to determine anything unless god actually steps in and say "Right, here's what I think..."

Originally posted by Robtard
would God take a side?

I would like to think not.

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
HMMm, god's completely care free, just going around with friends and he's forgotten we're all here and real! I think a wake up call is in order, or the whole world will die once more, I'll say his name without saying it until he snaps out of the trance.

Mass suicide would probably get god's attention. You go first!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He/she/it/they could but we'll never really know. The sheer number of conflicting claims about god's side make it difficult to determine anything unless god actually steps in and say "Right, here's what I think..."

I would like to think not.

Mass suicide would probably get god's attention. You go first!

I'm a gentleman god|alice|source goes first after all, I must be true to my manners... 😉 god's pretty interesting you kill him and he kills everyone in a single stroke... and revives them on earth with amnesia and in misery.

So it was asked: Where does God come from?

That is an excellent question!

The simple answer is this: God is "eternal," and does not require a so-called "Creator!"

You must understand, everything that has a beginning (and end) requires a Creator -- much like automobile engines. Logically, if something -- God -- is eternal, such does not require a Creator. For... it has always been, and always will.

No time.

With all in mind, let's look at the flip-side.

If God wasn't "eternal," that would, logically, warrant an innumerable creation of Gods. In other words, such creation events would remain for eternity, never reaching an "original source" of being/cause -- a downward spiral that never, never ends; and that is absurd.

Where did the original source of being/cause originate? Having a "finite" God, does not bring resolution to the dilemma. Think about the for a moment....

Surely, you understand. It ain't rocket science. It's simple logic.

Case in point, God exists "eternally," and man has a "finite" place in time. Hence, time had a beginning. God is "outside" time itself. God created time -- a beginning and end.

Understand?

If not, let me help you understand.

What are you questions/views?

Originally posted by En Sabah Nur X
CORRECT!
777
LLL

FATE OF LIFE IS LIFE'S FATE to be god and be with god
GOD IS GOD
ALICE IS ALICE... but she looks just like him, it must be a coincidence, no?

How about forcibly, or at least trying, converting GOD? That's the ultimate challenge if G8D believes what you do, everyone does, one hit and all the birds, all the angels fall, all the men fall, everything falls and is like it was in the beginning...

I'm going to co-sign this. It's just incoherent enough to be harmless and awesome.

biscuits

ushome's condescending tone ("ask me questions. i will teach you" etc) does nothing quite so cool, and his sentences also have coherent structure and points, though generally shallow ones, so they're far less enticing.

Originally posted by ushomefree
So it was asked: Where does God come from?

That is an excellent question!

The simple answer is this: God is "eternal," and does not require a so-called "Creator!"

You must understand, everything that has a beginning (and end) requires a Creator -- much like automobile engines. Logically, if something -- God -- is eternal, such does not require a Creator. For... it has always been, and always will.

No time.

With all in mind, let's look at the flip-side.

If God wasn't "eternal," that would, logically, warrant an innumerable creation of Gods. In other words, such creation events would remain for eternity, never reaching an "original source" of being/cause -- a downward spiral that never, never ends; and that is absurd.

Where did the original source of being/cause originate? Having a "finite" God, does not bring resolution to the dilemma. Think about the for a moment....

Surely, you understand. It ain't rocket science. It's simple logic.

Case in point, God exists "eternally," and man has a "finite" place in time. Hence, time had a beginning. God is "outside" time itself. God created time -- a beginning and end.

Understand?

If not, let me help you understand.

What are you questions/views?

oooo

I have a question! Well, not really just want to resate the question you thought you answered, but this time I'm going to make it a little more challenging for ya!

Please provide evidence to where God comes from?

Now you will have to utilise your critical thinking skills along with evidence to backup your hypothesis! rather than a useless opinion which answered nothing.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
oooo

I have a question! Well, not really just want to resate the question you thought you answered, but this time I'm going to make it a little more challenging for ya!

Please provide evidence to where God comes from?

Now you will have to utilise your critical thinking skills along with evidence to backup your hypothesis! rather than a useless opinion which answered nothing.

I know what he is going to say! 😆 The bible...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know what he is going to say! 😆 The bible...

You're probably right.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
I have a question! Well, not really just want to resate the question you thought you answered, but this time I'm going to make it a little more challenging for ya!

Please provide evidence to where God comes from?

Now you will have to utilise your critical thinking skills along with evidence to backup your hypothesis! rather than a useless opinion which answered nothing.

This question -- for myself and the scientific community -- is impossible to answer! God "transcends" length, width, space and time dimensions; human beings do not. That is not to say that science does not allow man to "detect" something greater than the Cosmos itself, not to mention you and I. Sorry I couldn't tell you where God comes from, ha ha! Maybe you could figure that out?

The problem with this question is that the asker doesn´t seem to understand that God is obviously outside the time zone where there´s a start and finish along an x to y timeline. So he doesn´t have to come from anywhere, but was always there.

Thank you Bicnarok.