Teens Against Pornography

Originally posted by leonheartmm
they dont sell, they DONATE. if you start putting prices on everything you increase greed by providing many many harmful choices to individuals. what if tomorrow selling any organ becomes legal, what if right now, a law is passed giving people the right to spend over a million dollars in a year after which they would be euthanised and their entire body stripped of parts to use for other patients. do you have any idea how tempting that would be to some people, do you really think society can survive when even the most precious things are on sale? people often sell kidneys for a little money that they hope will get them out of a rut and yet, in the majority, you see that the money is gone after a year and they are still poor. hey wait, maybe we should also start legalising people taking money to SELL off their kids into adoption, seeing as they dont WANT to take care of em and its their choice, after all, what BAD could adding a POSITIVE economic gift do to the whole situation, obviously im nuts here. basically, you are willing to put all blame on an individual pushed into a forced choice by being forced into a corner, and yet want NO blame placed on businesses and enterprise and industries which take advantage of EXACTLY this desperation to fuel its workforce needs.

yea, basically, your proving yourself an idiot to me.

You are kind of an *******. Telling people that they can't sell THEIR organs.

Bastard.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
they dont sell, they DONATE. .

I did it two months ago. Shrug

Edit: Blood

^you SOLD blood???????? erm, where is that legal exactly?

Originally posted by leonheartmm

WHY do you think openly legalising euthanasia with no boundries is so contreversial,

You seem to suggest he said this is ok. I would like to see a quote.

You keep using the extreme of each situation.

No shit it's a problem in the cases you continue to name, but everyone is not bound to those situations. Trust me, as a person who used to live in a very poor minority community, I get the issues of individual choice and all of that, but if you want to say that people in those areas have "no real choice" then address that with the people who can influence those issues.

I already say this, the way you approach these issues is moronic unless you take it up with legislators who can help alleviate the problems that put people in these "helpless, poor" situations.

The extreme of a situation can not be the basis for rational logic. I could even see if you were talking about those 6 year old girls in Thailand that old, rich Europeans male plow in the ******* after making reservations over the internet. Now that is the sort of explotation that needs to be addressed (but it funds Thailand; they even sell these girls for one TV set, it's pretty bad). It is the norm there and is an issue that is overlooked (there are other various situations like this one across Europe and Africa).

With porn, the situation is not the same.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^you SOLD blood???????? erm, where is that legal exactly?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You are kind of an *******. Telling people that they can't sell THEIR organs.

Right now it's illegal in many places. The argument is basically that if people simply sell their organs then people that need organs to survive will lose priority to rich people that just want a new organ for convenience. It's really not unreasonable.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^no you are calling, and it seems like a pretty empty claim seeing as AGAIN, you have not addressed the points made in the post you are replying too. its becoming a habit, and a very tiresome one. you have UTTERLY avoided answering the temptation point{which was the whole argument} which challenges the morality of industries based in exploiting the most desperate of people. oh NO, robtard's idiotic interpretation of CHOICE puts all things to rest doesnt it.

you are twistin my words, i am not referring to EVERYTHING for which you get paid, just the ones which are based on the most intimate of human values and posession which becomes troublesome and desperation and greed can make normal people make very harmful decisions IF that certain choice is presented to them in the said desperate situation. WHY do you think openly legalising euthanasia with no boundries is so contreversial, WHY do you think there is a BLACK market in organs {seeing as SELLING organs is illegal for the greater part and m argument is EXACTLY the reason why}. it is the same with selling blood, but it isnt the VIRTUE of paying for organs that is driving blood blanks to take such measure, it is the GREATER evil of not having enough blood for patients which is perhaps making such measures a necessary EVIL{point being, it IS still an EVIL}. and yes, i will always be sad for the negetivity such measures bring in, despite their positive results in other areas.

now for the last time, STOP with the personal insults, your making yourself look like a clown. either REBUTT my points, specifically and categorically with things other than your own silly oppinion{i.e. with logic} or dont bother posting, and if you do post another repeated rant as above, dont bother awaiting a reply.

FFS, you're back on the "you're dodging my points" bit yet again. Every single one of your points has been addressed over and over again(by me and others), despite them being idiotic comparisons and conclusions, eg "extreme torture and doing porn".

I am not twisting your words, you specifically brought up the "should we allow people to sell blood" as some sort of atrocity and somehow comparing it with porn. See:

"Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, maybe we shud legalise selling kidneys and selling blood too now."

I'm still waiting for you to substantiate a single blanketed claim you've made, eg "porn actors are denied basic human rights", "porn actors can't leave a shoot", "porn women don't enjoy the sex" etc. etc. etc. etc.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Right now it's illegal in many places. The argument is basically that if people simply sell their organs then people that need organs to survive will lose priority to rich people that just want a new organ for convenience. It's really not unreasonable.

So?

Originally posted by chithappens
You seem to suggest he said this is ok. I would like to see a quote.

You keep using the extreme of each situation.

No shit it's a problem in the cases you continue to name, but everyone is not bound to those situations. Trust me, as a person who used to live in a very poor minority community, I get the issues of individual choice and all of that, but if you want to say that people in those areas have "no real choice" then address that with the people who can influence those issues.

I already say this, the way you approach these issues is moronic unless you take it up with legislators who can help alleviate the problems that put people in these "helpless, poor" situations.

The extreme of a situation can not be the basis for rational logic. I could even see if you were talking about those 6 year old girls in Thailand that old, rich Europeans male plow in the ******* after making reservations over the internet. Now that is the sort of explotation that needs to be addressed (but it funds Thailand; they even sell these girls for one TV set, it's pretty bad). It is the norm there and is an issue that is overlooked (there are other various situations like this one across Europe and Africa).

With porn, the situation is not the same.

erm, u always use extemes to impress parallels or call out specific points in the oppositions arguments, the extremes merely help to elaborate the points by distinguishing the point of dissent from the wrest of the argument as the MAGNITUDE of the specific point is so much greater in the extreme and soo easily rrecogniseable to those who arent blind.

also, robtard doesnt seem to show any dissent even with the premises present in the EXTREMES i posted, often agreeing openly with parts or the entire whole of the extreme, including the torture example i gave before, which further elaborates where he is coming from, so i dont see any reason why youd call me out on this at all.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So?

Not much of an argument on your part. But if you don't see any value in human life that's not my problem.

Originally posted by chithappens
I did it two months ago. Shrug

Edit: Blood

Then according to Leo, it was wrong, you should have donated it. You black bastard.

Originally posted by Robtard
FFS, you're back on the "you're dodging my points" bit yet again. Every single one of your points has been addressed over and over again(by me and others), despite them being idiotic comparisons and conclusions, eg "extreme torture and doing porn".

I am not twisting your words, you specifically brought up the "should we allow people to sell blood" as some sort of atrocity and somehow comparing it with porn. See:

"[b]Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, maybe we shud legalise selling kidneys and selling blood too now."

I'm still waiting for you to substantiate a single blanketed claim you've made, eg "porn actors are denied basic human rights", "porn actors can't leave a shoot", "porn women don't enjoy the sex" etc. etc. etc. etc. [/B]

get you HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND REPLY TO THE ****ING POST!
or shutup. ive called you out specifically on the lack of rebuttal on certain points, youve YET AGAIN, avoided them completely and continue to play the fool, stop watsing my time rob.

^no you are calling, and it seems like a pretty empty claim seeing as AGAIN, you have not addressed the points made in the post you are replying too. its becoming a habit, and a very tiresome one. you have UTTERLY avoided answering the temptation point{which was the whole argument} which challenges the morality of industries based in exploiting the most desperate of people. oh NO, robtard's idiotic interpretation of CHOICE puts all things to rest doesnt it.

you are twistin my words, i am not referring to EVERYTHING for which you get paid, just the ones which are based on the most intimate of human values and posession which becomes troublesome and desperation and greed can make normal people make very harmful decisions IF that certain choice is presented to them in the said desperate situation. WHY do you think openly legalising euthanasia with no boundries is so contreversial, WHY do you think there is a BLACK market in organs {seeing as SELLING organs is illegal for the greater part and m argument is EXACTLY the reason why}. it is the same with selling blood, but it isnt the VIRTUE of paying for organs that is driving blood blanks to take such measure, it is the GREATER evil of not having enough blood for patients which is perhaps making such measures a necessary EVIL{point being, it IS still an EVIL}. and yes, i will always be sad for the negetivity such measures bring in, despite their positive results in other areas.

now for the last time, STOP with the personal insults, your making yourself look like a clown. either REBUTT my points, specifically and categorically with things other than your own silly oppinion{i.e. with logic} or dont bother posting, and if you do post another repeated rant as above, dont bother awaiting a reply.

ill repost until i get a reply from you. if you are not capable , then say so.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not much of an argument on your part. But if you don't see any value in human life that's not my problem.

I like your argument more than his, cause protecting people from themselves should really not be the governments duty. But still. Opening up the market would likely increase the number of organs, being available. And you could use your body the way you want.

Really, the way we have it now I don't see why not go all fascist on it and declare all bodies property of the government. Would increase the number of possible transplants immensely (my wording may sound negative, but I do really think that would be more logical and from a "value human life blah blah" POV the best solution).

Originally posted by leonheartmm
also, robtard doesnt seem to show any dissent even with the premises present in the EXTREMES i posted, often agreeing openly with parts or the entire whole of the extreme, including the torture example i gave before, which further elaborates where he is coming from, so i dont see any reason why youd call me out on this at all.

Your comparisons are extremely idiotic extremes. You even agreed that sex and torture are inherently different, yet you still ramble on and on about it, jumping between agreeing it's not a good comparison, saying it's a valid comparison and at one point even arguing the point with yourself, which was funny.

You also ignore the point about S&M and it being comparable to torture, which people do and do pay for. The horrors Leo, somewhere out there, there is a man paying a woman to whip him and set of his nuts. Poor woman, eh, she obviously is being forced to do this out of desperation.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
they dont sell, they DONATE. if you start putting prices on everything you increase greed by providing many many harmful choices to individuals. what if tomorrow selling any organ becomes legal, what if right now, a law is passed giving people the right to spend over a million dollars in a year after which they would be euthanised and their entire body stripped of parts to use for other patients. do you have any idea how tempting that would be to some people, do you really think society can survive when even the most precious things are on sale? people often sell kidneys for a little money that they hope will get them out of a rut and yet, in the majority, you see that the money is gone after a year and they are still poor. hey wait, maybe we should also start legalising people taking money to SELL off their kids into adoption, seeing as they dont WANT to take care of em and its their choice, after all, what BAD could adding a POSITIVE economic gift do to the whole situation, obviously im nuts here. basically, you are willing to put all blame on an individual pushed into a forced choice by being forced into a corner, and yet want NO blame placed on businesses and enterprise and industries which take advantage of EXACTLY this desperation to fuel its workforce needs.

yea, basically, your proving yourself an idiot to me.

Sure, I'll answer your idiotic question. I highly doubt people would sell their life for over a million dollars, unless they had a really shitty life. Having fun for a year in return for death doesn't logically translate to something people would line up to do by the truck loads. Unless of course they were terminally ill in the first place.

Now answer me this, what does your extremely idiotic scenario of people selling their body(life) to be completely harvested have to do with your claims (which you have yet to substantiate in over 10 pages now) about people selling themselves for sex in the porn industry? Are you really comparing death and sex now? Seriously?

Originally posted by Robtard
Your comparisons are extremely idiotic extremes. You even agreed that sex and torture are inherently different, yet you still ramble on and on about it, jumping between agreeing it's not a good comparison, saying it's a valid comparison and at one point even arguing the point with yourself, which was funny.

You also ignore the point about S&M and it being comparable to torture, which people do and do pay for. The horrors Leo, somewhere out there, there is a man paying a woman to whip him and set of his nuts. Poor woman, eh, she obviously is being forced to do this out of desperation.

absolute IDIOT. do you KNOW what parallels are?!?!?! they are DIFFERENT situations with overlaping points used to POINT OUT the overlapping ones, so as to distinguish them from the wrest. ofcourse porn and torture are different, yet IF we use YOUR senseless arguments, IRRESPECTIVE of the differences, they both become legal and have no real moral distinctions between them{as the DO in reality, which for the more thick among us means, YOUR ARGUMENT IS WRONG AS IT CAN NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN A MORALLY AMBIGUOUS AND A POSITIVELY MORALLY "CORRUPT" phenomenon} .
SnM is not torture, i was referring to EXTREME TORTURE, the tyoe which has lasting negetive effects on thephysical body as well a psychology which ISNT done for pleasure. i do not find SnM horrifying unless its taken to extremes where the line between pleasure and pain isnt blurry at all.

now answer my points or dont bother replying. you are wasting my time.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I see the value in human life. I just think that you should be able to decide what you want to do with your body, including any option that might involve shifts of money.

I like your argument more than his, cause protecting people from themselves should really not be the governments duty. But still. Opening up the market would likely increase the number of organs, being available. And you could use your body the way you want.

Really, the way we have it now I don't see why not go all fascist on it and declare all bodies property of the government. Would increase the number of possible transplants immensely (my wording may sound negative, but I do really think that would be more logical and from a "value human life blah blah" POV the best solution).

Well I agree with most of that. It's simply sale of organs onto a market that concerns me. People can manipulate a free market and medicine should at some level be protected from that threat.

Ideally it should be possible to sell organs into the system we have now rather than waiting for someone to die or an altruist to step in.

Originally posted by Robtard
Sure, I'll answer your idiotic question. I highly doubt people would sell their life for over a million dollars, unless they had a really shitty life. Having fun for a year in return for death doesn't logically translate to something people would line up to do by the truck loads. Unless of course they were terminally ill in the first place.

Now answer me this, what does your extremely idiotic scenario of people selling their body(life) to be completely harvested have to do with your claims ([b]which you have yet to substantiate in over 10 pages now) about people selling themselves for sex in the porn industry? Are you really comparing death and sex now? Seriously? [/B]

they both refer to things very personal and rather prised to humans{ofcurse sum less than others}

they both refer to people having no desire other than fulfilling of intrinsic personal and family survival needs, to give them up or sell them off.

they both refer to people in desperation being taken advantage of by providing greed and an explotive way OUT, which is willfully done by organisations and industries with people who created the negetive outlet when one didnt exist previously.

they both call out the morality of providing such negetive paths when they didnt exist previously.

THAT is where the parallel lies you fool.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
absolute IDIOT. do you KNOW what parallels are?!?!?! they are DIFFERENT situations with overlaping points used to POINT OUT the overlapping ones, so as to distinguish them from the wrest. ofcourse porn and torture are different, yet IF we use YOUR senseless arguments, IRRESPECTIVE of the differences, they both become legal and have no real moral distinctions between them{as the DO in reality, which for the more thick among us means, YOUR ARGUMENT IS WRONG AS IT CAN NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN A MORALLY AMBIGUOUS AND A POSITIVELY MORALLY "CORRUPT" phenomenon} .
SnM is not torture, i was referring to EXTREME TORTURE, the tyoe which has lasting negetive effects on thephysical body as well a psychology which ISNT done for pleasure. i do not find SnM horrifying unless its taken to extremes where the line between pleasure and pain isnt blurry at all.

now answer my points or dont bother replying. you are wasting my time.

So is that like saying: "if we allow two men to marry, then we'll have to allow someone the right to marry a toaster"?

Like I said, your conclusions are idiotic. Sex and "extreme torture" are inherently different, surely you can see this? Which you have said you could, yet you continue with this retard-point. Ush and a few others have pointed this out to you also, yet you continue, odd.

Chit is absolutely correct, you reach into the the most idiotic extremes to try and make a point, extremes don't make the rule.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i do not find SnM horrifying unless its taken to extremes where the line between pleasure and pain isnt blurry at all.

There are people out there that voluntarily do things you would consider completely beyond the pale.