Originally posted by chithappens
[B] That is the choice of the parent. Excuse me for assuming that was understood.What does that to do with choice? It is what it is. [/B]
I wasn't discussing choice, I was discussing Laws which make Suicide illegal.
My point is that you would stop your parents from committing suicide if you could. Therefore that reaction should be reflected by the state upon its citizens.
Since anecdotes of the "desperate porn actress that hated it" somehow substantiate the porn industry being an atrocity as a whole claim. Here's a little anecdote of two porn star at the 2008 AVN Awards. The AVN is the porn industries version of the Oscars.
Notice how they're not enjoying themselves and doing it out of desperation, you'll also notice that someone (guy with phone) is forcing them to stay and they really have no choice.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
do you beleive that the majority of porn workers would continue their career if they could find similar sustainance in another job that they can perform?also, it is forced choice, they were forced by circumstances to do it and not presented with other viable options, or the knowledge to make those options work. eaither way, it pretty much fits the definition of forced choice.
How should I know what they'd do? Some probably would, some probably wouldn't. I'm not going to sit here and lie and pretend to know what all porn actors are thinking like you are.
It is not a forced choice. It is a choice. You're making blanket statements without providing anything to back it up. You act as if all porn actors are somehow desperate and forced. The fact that some of them aren't is all I need to reference in order to demolish your broken argument. Your argument is simply "the choice is bad and they don't like it, so it's a forced choice". They still had the choice. Other options were there, whether or not they looked at the other options is part of THEIR choice. Whether or not they seek out the other options, it's THEIR choice.
Because there are many stupid people (like you) who think they have the right to dictate what choices a person can make for themselves. Fascists like you.
protecting people's livelyhoods when they are not in a fit enough mental state to do it themselves is not facism, it is empathy, sumthing you apparently have never heard of. also, just a few posts after this, didnt you admit that YOU would stop your mother from comitting suicide, doesnt that make YOU a facist as you are interfering{as i proposed to with porn and suicide legally} with her right to do as she pleases?
Also, my points trump not only your points and yours alone, but everyone's that make the same.
No. The standards are the same. If YOU want to end YOUR life YOU should be allowed to do it.
then why dont you ALLOW your mother to end her life without interfering? on a similar note, would you let your your 6 year old daughter go and have an orgy because she WANTED TO?
So? No one forces you to kill yourself.
that wasnt what my reply was dealing wit silly. youve forgotten the line of argumentation and come up with sumthing completely alien which isnt being discussed in the first place. also, CIRCUMSTANCES force you! do you really think most suicidal actively PERSUE suicide with no reason other than their personal aesthetic pleasure? furthermore, most people have expectations with suicide which are not true{i.e. ill be in a better place, ill sleep forever} and ill informed choices are again not representative of true desires.
It doesn't have merits to you. And it is a terrible thing to you. But you (****ing *******) shouldn't force your standards on other people. It has lots of merit to many. It is a good thing for some.
the same way having an orgy has merits to your 6 year old daughter, and suicide has merits to your mother. why do YOU propose to force your standards on other people?????? its a good thing for them.
point being, your a HYPOCRITE.
Nah. Your point is just that you don't see the merits. It shouldn't be your decisions for others. It's like the porn thing. You don't like it, so others can't be allowed to do it. ****ing stupid.
you dont like your mother comitting suicide so she cant be allowed to do it, FUKCING STUPID!
Originally posted by BackFire
How should I know what they'd do? Some probably would, some probably wouldn't. I'm not going to sit here and lie and pretend to know what all porn actors are thinking like you are.It is not a forced choice. It is a choice. You're making blanket statements without providing anything to back it up. You act as if all porn actors are somehow desperate and forced. The fact that some of them aren't is all I need to reference in order to demolish your broken argument. Your argument is simply "the choice is bad and they don't like it, so it's a forced choice". They still had the choice. Other options were there, whether or not they looked at the other options is part of THEIR choice. Whether or not they seek out the other options, it's THEIR choice.
but i am saying that a majority would choose alternate professions out of personal desire and if they didnt have the dependancy on the industry to provide for their personal necessities. but not all.
it is a forced choice, and i never said anything about ALL, your just not reading what i am writing. the fact that SOME of them arents isnt enough to nullify the emotions of the MAJORITY of them. unless ofcourse, your saying that the majority of people{leaving out the more serious parts} like being conciously objectified in a sexist way. my argument isnt that the CHOICE IS BAD. that is you trying to force my argument into a mold you are fine with. i said it is a forced choice for the majority and that is what i have always said. {havent you ever heard, "i had to earn money sumhow i had NO CHOICE"}
as long as other options are not VIABLE they can not ggive rise to free choice. this has been dont to death, read the discrepancies in the wholistic meaning of choice and then get back to me.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
protecting people's livelyhoods when they are not in a fit enough mental state to do it themselves is not facism, it is empathy, sumthing you apparently have never heard of. also, just a few posts after this, didnt you admit that YOU would stop your mother from comitting suicide, doesnt that make YOU a facist as you are interfering{as i proposed to with porn and suicide legally} with her right to do as she pleases?
Your empathy can go **** itself if it keeps people alive that don't want to bear the pain they live in.
Also, you don't understand fascism, do you?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
lmao, ur dreaming now.
You are dim witted.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
then why dont you ALLOW your mother to end her life without interfering? on a similar note, would you let your your 6 year old daughter go and have an orgy because she WANTED TO?
Because I, as a human, have illogical emotions and a personal selfishness that in such a spur of the moment situation would trump my believes. I was never asked whether I would interfere with her decision of killing herself after some time to consider it and a conversation with her, though. I just answered a question I was asked, your conclusions from it are at best logical fallacies.
As for the orgy thing. Yeah...if she understands the ramifications.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
that wasnt what my reply was dealing wit silly. youve forgotten the line of argumentation and come up with sumthing completely alien which isnt being discussed in the first place. also, CIRCUMSTANCES force you! do you really think most suicidal actively PERSUE suicide with no reason other than their personal aesthetic pleasure? furthermore, most people have expectations with suicide which are not true{i.e. ill be in a better place, ill sleep forever} and ill informed choices are again not representative of true desires.
Blah blah. You want to force your decisions on them. You think they have wrong expectations so they shouldn't decide that. You think they don't really want it so they shouldn't do it. Luckily you, leon****tardmm, were not made the ultimate ruler and decider of life...people are different. What applies to you, doesn't apply to everyone else. Many people could be better off if they were dead, your personal convictions of an afterlife are your burden and yours alone.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
the same way having an orgy has merits to your 6 year old daughter, and suicide has merits to your mother. why do YOU propose to force your standards on other people?????? its a good thing for them.point being, your a HYPOCRITE.
Idiot. If you can't see the difference between an emotional decision created out of selfish desires in mere seconds and a more or (in your case) less rational consideration of a point resulting in legislation applying to everyone that is really not my problem.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
you dont like your mother comitting suicide so she cant be allowed to do it, FUKCING STUPID!
Never said that. Stop lying. Bring some logical arguments or shut the **** up. So far you are obviously wrong about everything.
Your empathy can go **** itself if it keeps people alive that don't want to bear the pain they live in.Also, you don't understand fascism, do you?
wow, just wow. you completely missed the point where i said that euthanasia would have to take into consideration the state that the person is in.{ofcourse i would be conflicted and definately considering authanasia for a person in severe incurable pain}. to which you replied that it is the SAME as when the person is not in pain as its just a decision, so basically you are negating yourself here. makes me wonder whether you are arguing just for the sake of argument here.
and no, i do understand facism very well. an
You are dim witted.
Because I, as a human, have illogical emotions and a personal selfishness that in such a spur of the moment situation would trump my believes. I was never asked whether I would interfere with her decision of killing herself after some time to consider it and a conversation with her, though. I just answered a question I was asked, your conclusions from it are at best logical fallacies.As for the orgy thing. Yeah...if she understands the ramifications.
thats kind of like the joker saying "ooh, io did promise you that id return you homse safely after you did your part, but i never said ALIVE now did i?" . you are first calling those who hinder even the slightest in people;s ability to make decisions facists, then you say that the situation is very DIFFERENT{when there is no real difference} if its YOUR mother about to commit suicide and that you would interfere, and when later faced witrh a claim of hypocricy, you conveniently change the argument and say that you actually would if it wasnr spur of the moment. so which one is it, as i am royally confused now. also, are you seriously saying that you would let your mother commit suicide if she isnt already in a terminal or unbearable physical or clinical psychological condition simply because she WANTS to and it is her decision{a clear yes or no would be greatly appreciated}
and also, you put conditions when it is your 6 year old daughter, {i.e. IF SHE understands teh ramifications}. this is inconsistant with your argument as you already argued against me when i brought up the SAME point in this post about suicidals NOT understanding the ramifications of their actions and having illogical beleifs like they will go to a better place. infact the part of your reply right BELOW this was an opposition to this very argument that i presented. do you have any idea how inconsistant your stance is?
and really, WOULD YOU or would you NOT, let your 6 year old daughter in an orgy if SHE decided it irrespective of understanding the ramification or not, as in our own words "You think they don't really want it so they shouldn't do it. Luckily you, leon****tardmm, were not made the ultimate ruler and decider of life...people are different. What applies to you, doesn't apply to everyone else."
Blah blah. You want to force your decisions on them. You think they have wrong expectations so they shouldn't decide that. You think they don't really want it so they shouldn't do it. Luckily you, leon****tardmm, were not made the ultimate ruler and decider of life...people are different. What applies to you, doesn't apply to everyone else. Many people could be better off if they were dead, your personal convictions of an afterlife are your burden and yours alone.
you are being majorly hypocritical here as see by your above post. also, i really do wonder whether i shud start reporting people for this type of replies, i never have before and it is a bit wierd for me.
Idiot. If you can't see the difference between an emotional decision created out of selfish desires in mere seconds and a more or (in your case) less rational consideration of a point resulting in legislation applying to everyone that is really not my problem.
desperate attempt at reconciliation with a blunder poreviously made by yours truly. am i to beleive that you were SO in character in that last post that you actually types the action your body would take, neglecting that it was a hypothetical situation and that you DID have the use of your mind, and not even GIVE the persepctive of what youd ACTUALLY{your claim} do in the situatin if you knew more and ONLY came up with it when you were called a hypocrite????? come on, admit it, you didnt think this while things throught and therefore, your emotions betrayed you inconcistance which looked like hypocrisy.{btw, i dont beleive youd ever let your mother kill herlself simply because she FELT like it at a whime, unless you really hate your mother.}
Never said that. Stop lying. Bring some logical arguments or shut the **** up. So far you are obviously wrong about everything.
wow this is a mature and logical way to rebutt isnt it? again, isnt what you are doing against forum rules and the general rules of human decency and reciporcative respect?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
but i am saying that a majority would choose alternate professions out of personal desire and if they didnt have the dependancy on the industry to provide for their personal necessities. but not all.it is a forced choice, and i never said anything about ALL, your just not reading what i am writing. the fact that SOME of them arents isnt enough to nullify the emotions of the MAJORITY of them. unless ofcourse, your saying that the majority of people{leaving out the more serious parts} like being conciously objectified in a sexist way. my argument isnt that the CHOICE IS BAD. that is you trying to force my argument into a mold you are fine with. i said it is a forced choice for the majority and that is what i have always said. {havent you ever heard, "i had to earn money sumhow i had NO CHOICE"}
as long as other options are not VIABLE they can not ggive rise to free choice. this has been dont to death, read the discrepancies in the wholistic meaning of choice and then get back to me.
You say it's the majority, but you've given nothing to back up this claim - no evidence, no reasoning, no stats. If you're claiming that it's the majority then you need to back that up. Until you do, your claim is worthless and simply baseless opinion that you're trying to pass off as something more. You're not fooling anyone.
And yes, I've heard that claim about making money. It's incorrect. There isn't just one way to make money, is there? They could have worked at a fastfood place, they could have been a waitress, they could have gotten any number of other jobs. ****ing for money isn't the only thing available. All those other things mentioned were there, they were possibilities, the person simply chose to go an alternate path. They chose.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
but i am saying that a majority would choose alternate professions out of personal desire and if they didnt have the dependancy on the industry to provide for their personal necessities. but not all.it is a forced choice, and i never said anything about ALL, your just not reading what i am writing. the fact that SOME of them arents isnt enough to nullify the emotions of the MAJORITY of them. unless ofcourse, your saying that the majority of people{leaving out the more serious parts} like being conciously objectified in a sexist way. my argument isnt that the CHOICE IS BAD. that is you trying to force my argument into a mold you are fine with. i said it is a forced choice for the majority and that is what i have always said. {havent you ever heard, "i had to earn money sumhow i had NO CHOICE"}
as long as other options are not VIABLE they can not ggive rise to free choice. this has been dont to death, read the discrepancies in the wholistic meaning of choice and then get back to me.
Person # 1: I chose to be a chimney sweepers!
Person #2: I chose to be a janitor!
Person #3: I chose to be a drug dealer!
There are plenty of jobs people don't want to do and they do them. The way you speak of it, none of us have a damn choice to do anything. I'm for protecting the rights of people and so on, but damn man, get off the high horse.
Life happens and this can only be taken on an individual basis in ANY of the cases talking about choice. We have to talk about a detailed personal history to decide if there was a "choice" or an "ultimatum."
An ultimatum is not a choice so stop confusing yourself.
then why dont you ALLOW your mother to end her life without interfering? on a similar note, would you let your your 6 year old daughter go and have an orgy because she WANTED TO?
you realize six year old girls don't have the mental capabilities to fully understand what an orgy is, unlike the oh so willing 18+ women. There are laws for a reason.
but i am saying that a majority would choose alternate professions out of personal desire and if they didnt have the dependancy on the industry to provide for their personal necessities. but not all.
I'm around the age of most people who do porn, and i would do it. If I could, I deffinately wouldn't pursue an alternate profession, and I'm guessing the majority don't either. Getting hired for a porn is just as easy as getting hired anywhere else.
unless ofcourse, your saying that the majority of people{leaving out the more serious parts} like being conciously objectified in a sexist way.
how is porn sexist?
this is inconsistant with your argument as you already argued against me when i brought up the SAME point in this post about suicidals NOT understanding the ramifications of their actions and having illogical beleifs like they will go to a better place.
it is not for you, or anybody to say if somebody's beliefs are illogical, in accordance to death (does that sentance work?). They are fully aware of the possibility that there is no heaven and hell, and thus the understand the "ramifications of their actions"
Sorry, I've read so much of this forum.. I had to put in my 2 cents.
Originally posted by Robtard
Since anecdotes of the "desperate porn actress that hated it" somehow substantiate the porn industry being an atrocity as a whole claim. Here's a little anecdote of two porn star at the 2008 AVN Awards. The AVN is the porn industries version of the Oscars.Notice how they're not enjoying themselves and doing it out of desperation, you'll also notice that someone (guy with phone) is forcing them to stay and they really have no choice.
porn stars all have that look in their eyes like they're dead inside. makes me cum even harder
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
It's dem funnermentalists!Porn is degrading. Some women might be stupid enough to think that pornography is liberating, but I can't fathom why.
Choice is not always right, even though Westernized society seems to think so.
spoken like a true eunuch. i bet you really care about them, huh? well dont. they are dead inside. just watch and cum. then their lives have at least some purpose
Originally posted by Zeal Ex Nihilo
Porn is degrading. Some women might be stupid enough to think that pornography is liberating, but I can't fathom why.
You can't fathom why it would be liberating to partake in the most natural possible human act with the knowledge that other people would gain some enjoyment from your actions? That's before you get paid.
Fu*k this. I'm going to star in a porno.
Wow. 19 pages. God, people are acting like porn actors and actresses are ****ing drug mules.
It's just porn. It's a legitimate industry. They sell a service. If you think it's degrading then it's really your own hang ups. It's a ****ing choice they've made - it may be circumstance dependent, but all choices are. It generally doesn't hurt anyone, BDSM not withstanding.
One can wonder if Jenna Jameson would rather have flipped burgers or worked a checkout than be a multi-millionaire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Feminist
P.S. While writing with proper syntax wouldn't magically transform gibberish into coherency, it would certainly be less of an eyesore.