Originally posted by zopzop
Get back to me when you have a statement from the real Thanos, not a clone, not a doppelganger, not an alternate universe version of Thanos, etc....
You have a Thanosi (at the time designed to be the real Thanos) admit defeat from Odin. We later find out that was in fact a Thanosi with the memories of the real Thanos.
And they both apparently believe that Odin defeated him.
Statement aside, I don't see how you can get to any other conclusion when you actually look at their fight in the Blood and Thunder saga. It was Thanos enduring a massive ass kicking from Odin who conversely looked as if he had barely started.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Because the fight shows us otherwise. If Odin defeated him why ask Thanos to yield ? does that make any sense ?
If you kicked my ass all over the place and I was obviously no threat to your person despite my resistance and you asked me to give up, that doesn't mean you didn't defeat me.
It just means you'd rather have me admit defeat than continue with a farce.
....much like this whole discussion.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You have a Thanosi (at the time designed to be the real Thanos) admit defeat from Odin. We later find out that was in fact a Thanosi with the memories of the real Thanos.And they both apparently believe that Odin defeated him.
Statement aside, I don't see how you can get to any other conclusion when you actually look at their fight in the Blood and Thunder saga. It was Thanos enduring a massive ass kicking from Odin who conversely looked as if he had barely started,
Originally posted by JakeTheBankExactly. 👆
If you kicked my ass all over the place and I was obviously no threat to your person despite my resistance and you asked me to give up, that doesn't mean you didn't defeat me.It just means you'd rather have me admit defeat than continue with a farce.
....much like this whole discussion.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankNah, Odin respected him as an opponent and even though he was trying to kill him and viewed him as a major threat gave him the option after he realized he hadn't been defeated yet. Thanos was ready for more and though Odin was winning Thanos wasn't beaten at that point. The fight was going to continue until Bill and Sif showed up making Odin feel like a big a-hole.
If you kicked my ass all over the place and I was obviously no threat to your person despite my resistance and you asked me to give up, that doesn't mean you didn't defeat me.It just means you'd rather have me admit defeat than continue with a farce.
....much like this whole discussion.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You have a Thanosi (at the time designed to be the real Thanos) admit defeat from Odin. We later find out that was in fact a Thanosi with the memories of the real Thanos.And they both apparently believe that Odin defeated him.
Except on panel evidence contradicts that clone's claim! It was right there on panel, he was LOSING, he hadn't LOST yet.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If you kicked my ass all over the place and I was obviously no threat to your person despite my resistance and you asked me to give up, that doesn't mean you didn't defeat me.It just means you'd rather have me admit defeat than continue with a farce.
....much like this whole discussion.
Exactly. How many times have we seen in comics where a person continues to defy someone they know they have no chance of defeating? Hell, Wolverine does it all the time.
This is how I view the whole thing...
It was intended to be the real Thanos and thus that does make a difference. Obviously it was later rectonned into being a clone.. but that particular statement wasn't rectonned away. Obviously marvel was trying to illustrate the point that Odin (like we saw) was getting the better of Thanos. NOT that it had finished and there was a finality because there wasn't. That said, being that it was a clone, this inheriently causes some doubt about the validity fo the statement. That is just how it is with clones... bots.. etc etc. One could argue that while it might have had the memories of the fight.. and came to the conclusion his "maker" was defeated.. doesn't mean the real Thanos felt that way. In fact, we know he didn't feel that way because he was ready to continue.
The way I see the fight is like this... Odin got a clear UD in the fight. There was no doubt Odin had the upperhand and was the more powerful person on the field. But much like real life boxing for example. When the fight end after 12 rounds.. doesn't mean the person who lost couldn't continue.. nor does it mean he could turn the tide. Now I'm not saying Thanos could or couldn't as more than likely it would be a final defeat for Thanos. The fact remains though.. Imo marvel was simplying saying what we all saw in so many words.. I don't think defeat was the right word.. why wasn't it... well because in the actual comic Thanos didn't back down.. admit defeat.. he wanted to continue. However, Marvel point was..like we all saw... Thanos was on the losing end.. i.e. it was 1-0 for Odin (points victory is still a win) not that Thanos was defeated and couldn't continue. Defeated can mean a number of things.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah, Odin respected him as an opponent and even though he was trying to kill him and viewed him as a major threat gave him the option after he realized he hadn't been defeated yet. Thanos was ready for more and though Odin was winning Thanos wasn't beaten at that point. The fight was going to continue until Bill and Sif showed up making Odin feel like a big a-hole.
He respected him, sure, but you can respect someone for enduring an ass-kicking at your hands. You can also offer them an easy way out instead of continuing the ass-kicking. And neither of those take away from the fact that you defeated someone.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I like how Zopzop shits on Odin in this thread against the lesser Galactus, but praises him to all hell in the Odin vs actual Galactus thread.
WTF are you talking about? I even said Thanos was LOSING the fight, LOSING and in all probability would have lost as the fight progressed. But the fact that he was still up and ready to continue the fight means he hadn't LOST yet. It's not hard.
Originally posted by celestialdemon
😆 No kidding. Yet an absolutely enraged Tyrant apparently was just playing around.
No doubt Tyrant was toying with everybody. If he was'nt he would've brought out the Wolverine type claws from his body (like this) and murdered everyone (including Galactus) present.
He said he is the master of his body and can create more neglecting Galactus's attempts at physical damage. This means that if his body is even in danger of being destroyed he'll come right back. Not looking good for Odin.
Oh and the debate about Odin vs. Thanos has gone on too long. Everyone knows Odin had the upper hand but Odin admitted Thanos as a formidable foe. It's just that what Odin dished out didn't really impress Thanos. Nothing major that wanted to make him stop fighting. Thanos was impressed at Tyrant. He admited he'll perish using a amp. Anybody like that has to be impressive to be put that much higher on the pedestal.
It's real simple.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiThat's pretty much what you're doing with actual evidence, i.e., Thanos toppling Tyrant (not Odin) and Tyrant not one-shotting Gladiator, Surfer, etc. (Odin did).
So basically your response amounted to.. nuh uh it didn't happen cause I don't like it... Sorry but that isn't good enough... I'll ask again..
Stop acting like absence of evidence is evidence of absence. In Tears of the Gods, the amped Thanosi wasn't drawing admissions of superiority/defeat from Thor either despite railing him something fierce before Firelord arrived with the Odinarmor. The opposite, in fact. Does that mean anything? No.
All your prevarications change nothing. And they're doubly witless since you're focusing on absence of character statements, as if character statements somehow trump actual showings.
Warming yourself at night with the thought that at least Thanos never admitted defeat during his a$$-kicking doesn't render that complete non-fact meaningful in any probative way. Embrace your safety blanket for what it is: denial. But don't pretend it's evidence.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Oh and the debate about Odin vs. Thanos has gone on too long. Everyone knows Odin had the upper hand but Odin admitted Thanos as a formidable foe. It's just that what Odin dished out didn't really impress Thanos. Nothing major that wanted to make him stop fighting. Thanos was impressed at Tyrant. He admited he'll perish using a amp. Anybody like that has to be impressive to be put that much higher on the pedestal.It's real simple.
It is simple and backed by on panel evidence too, but some people like to argue just to argue.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankIf he was defeated he wouldn't have asked him to yield. It's that simple.
He respected him, sure, but you can respect someone for enduring an ass-kicking at your hands. You can also offer them an easy way out instead of continuing the ass-kicking. And neither of those take away from the fact that you defeated someone.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is how I view the whole thing...It was intended to be the real Thanos and thus that does make a difference. Obviously it was later rectonned into being a clone.. but that particular statement wasn't rectonned away. Obviously marvel was trying to illustrate the point that Odin (like we saw) was getting the better of Thanos. NOT that it had finished and there was a finality because there wasn't. That said, being that it was a clone, this inheriently causes some doubt about the validity fo the statement. That is just how it is with clones... bots.. etc etc. One could argue that while it might have had the memories of the fight.. and came to the conclusion his "maker" was defeated.. doesn't mean the real Thanos felt that way. In fact, we know he didn't feel that way because he was ready to continue.
The way I see the fight is like this... Odin got a clear UD in the fight. There was no doubt Odin had the upperhand and was the more powerful person on the field. But much like real life boxing for example. When the fight end after 12 rounds.. doesn't mean the person who lost couldn't continue.. nor does it mean he could turn the tide. Now I'm not saying Thanos could or couldn't as more than likely it would be a final defeat for Thanos. The fact remains though.. Imo marvel was simplying saying what we all saw in so many words.. I don't think defeat was the right word.. why wasn't it... well because in the actual comic Thanos didn't back down.. admit defeat.. he wanted to continue. However, Marvel point was..like we all saw... Thanos was on the losing end.. i.e. it was 1-0 for Odin (points victory is still a win) not that Thanos was defeated and couldn't continue. Defeated can mean a number of things.
Except that clone statement fit exactly what was happening on panel. He came to that conclusion from his memory of that fight. He might not be the real Thanos but his statement reflect that fight. Odin was beating Thanos up and down and at no point did Thanos evenly returned the favor. Not once. Thanos was getting defeated. The fact that he didn't give up doesn't change the fact that Odin was beating him punch for punch. Captain America once stood up to Thanos with the IG when all else had died. Someone not giving up doesn't change the fact that they've been defeated in a fight. This was like Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, except worst. Had there been a referee and judges, Odin would've been declared the winner by the number of shoots delivered. The only thing that affected Odin was that force prism and even that didn't last long.
And by the way, Blood and Thunder 12 was written by Jim Starlin. He's the one that had Odin wrecking Thanos.
