Burning Legion vs Scourge

Originally posted by Utrigita
http://www.wowwiki.com/Devour_Magic

Magical in natur, AOE drain only drains mana.

They are the perfect soldiers when pitted against any being that is on there own level, and there level is significantly above the Ghouls and the Zombies which makes up the majority of the Scourge army. The Scourge can be slain BT, the Scourge requires one thing to function and that is it's spellcasters, else the Scourge is worthless.

He will not have any influence on the battle other then keeping the army that they marshal at the beginning alive new corpses will be the concerns of the necromancers liches etc that are already present on the battlefield.

Of Cause there are not as many of them as there are Felguards, and the other canonfodder, but they are more then the few handfulls you claimed. There are roughly as mentioned before 20 high ranking leaders of the Legion living on azeroth ore outland. Again dispel and highly resistant to magic will take care of that.

So I can begin drawing in the skills of each individual Eredar that the Legion has and say that those skills they all has? No not in this thread.

You did you said endless legions of abominations and Flesh Titans which they doesn't have and furthermore one Infernal/Abyssal is more then enough to handle any abomination and Flesh Titans and you still lack proving there is more then one.

Of cause it will drain them but then the Destroyer will go up in smoke. And nothing about them reanimating they simply explode and destroyes themselves in the progress i draw this conclusion since a Druid(healer) and a Tank can easily take a Destroyer down in the gameplay and there is no ressurrection involved, furthermore it doesn't cast drain while it's engaged in combat apparently.

Please show me where it stats that they explode and then arise again and again, if that was the case the Dragons would have never defeated them.

yes ime fully aware of that....ofc it does, and Devuor magic destorys summons like infernals...

it requires spellcasters? not really, it requires the LK power to keep mosto f htem up, hes the will of the scourge, the liches didnt raise 250k in glacia, as it clearly states in the lore LK makes "most" of the undead and hes untouchable in this battle os technically most are not able to be completly destroyted if their under the power of "will not die" rules that some scourge may have. And it will be Flesh giants and Abominations who will smash Fel guards to pieces and ive still not convinced, you have said the felguard are superior for what reasons? just because their large with swords? ......wonderful

fair enough

But it wont because theres not as many of them, you have 20 high ranking leaders which are not in this battle ,considering most Pit lords that are powerful that we know of are leaders their not in this battle, so we have the rare number, and as isaid, how can you cast anything when your weak on the ground, then your assuming he will not just simply be recast/swarmed by creatures.

Its something to notify how varied Necromancers are and hes not the only one.....there are many necromancers in there with varied powers, i think most of you are underestimating necromancers, Naxxramas alone shows their huge variety of powers from Nauture, corrupting, shadow and even elemental like ground eruptions. And no, your not, but Becci and Dark C are stating spelsl Eradar have used so w/e

hmm can you quote this, if i did say it I didnt mean endless flesh titans, Abominations ime not sure of, their everywhere and Flesh giants, and wtf? infernals.....infernals would get am ajor ass woopin from Flesh titna, its massive, Abyssals are not summonable and ime not sure they are on the Legions side, they usually seem to work for Illidan himself or so their leader Supremeus does. A Flesh titan would solo most of the legio nas i said before with his polarity power.

No they dont explode, if youve not played the game then please do not assume you know what its talking about, Destroyers themselves do not explode, their AOE around them explodes, by explodes it means their energy output flies out, ime surprised nobody on this forum has ever played the 20 man i belive ruins of Ahn quiraj, maybe ill look for vids. Also dont use gameplay lol.....

They dont explode themselves, youve got it all wrong, their energy blasts out of them, thats the whole reason why you need to have them drained of their mana, because if it reaches max, BANG your raid gets smashed up bad...otherwise we would just let it drain our mana and let it die....which ofc is not the case..

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes ime fully aware of that....ofc it does, and Devuor magic destorys summons like infernals...

No it doesnt 🤨

Infernals are immune to magical attacks and Devour magic is a magical attack.. I don't see any logic in that conclusion.

Yes to keep them up when then the battle begin, when they die however it will be the Liches Necromancers etc that are going to supply the energy to keep the corpses that has fallen animated. Again you are overlooking that we at the Front has both the Infernals Doomguards and Pitlords. Because they have a brain to think with, because they are described as the perfect soldier, because they fight tactical and well organised the scourge main force does none of these things.

Again how do you know there isn't many of them? They isn't like the Liches, they are breed because we have only seen at max 20 it doesn't mean that there numbers isn't substantial higher then that. We also know the Average Pitlord which is powerful as well, which is the reason Archimonde recruited them in the first place, if they where a bunch of weaklings and there had been only 20 he wouldn't have bothered. Again he can dispel and is highly resistant to magic, also the Felguards will move to assure that the others doesn't swarm him, which they btw will have a hard time with seen as how they are outnumbered.

Those are average spells at the disposal of the Eredar Warlocks, hence they can be used that a single necromancer that uses Fire doesn't mean that the entire bunch can use it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Guessing they are immune to even dragon breath (i dont think so, nothing states that) then the [b]endless legions of Abominations ,Flesh giants and god knows what else will come forth. [/B]

There are certainly nothing that points towards endless legions, The infernals can be summoned with ease again how many flesh Titans are there? http://www.wowwiki.com/Abyssal

Faction/Affiliation Burning Legion

Sorry what? I doesn't assume that a Flesh Titan can solo the entire Legion... ans that I take WoWwiki's word higher then your own sorry, unless you can provide with a Video that clearly proofs that when the Destroyers capacity to absorb mana is overloaded then it explodes but stays intact. You are using Gameplay to justify the Destroyers Immunity to magic a weakness that is none existant in lore, so please don't lol about me using it.

Provide the proof please.

Originally posted by Burning thought
maybe ill look for vids. Also dont use gameplay lol.....

Those two sentences really didnt go well together..

Originally posted by Utrigita
Infernals are immune to magical attacks and Devour magic is a magical attack.. I don't see any logic in that conclusion.

Yes to keep them up when then the battle begin, when they die however it will be the Liches Necromancers etc that are going to supply the energy to keep the corpses that has fallen animated. Again you are overlooking that we at the Front has both the Infernals Doomguards and Pitlords. Because they have a brain to think with, because they are described as the perfect soldier, because they fight tactical and well organised the scourge main force does none of these things.

Again how do you know there isn't many of them? They isn't like the Liches, they are breed because we have only seen at max 20 it doesn't mean that there numbers isn't substantial higher then that. We also know the Average Pitlord which is powerful as well, which is the reason Archimonde recruited them in the first place, if they where a bunch of weaklings and there had been only 20 he wouldn't have bothered. Again he can dispel and is highly resistant to magic, also the Felguards will move to assure that the others doesn't swarm him, which they btw will have a hard time with seen as how they are outnumbered.

Those are average spells at the disposal of the Eredar Warlocks, hence they can be used that a single necromancer that uses Fire doesn't mean that the entire bunch can use it.

There are certainly nothing that points towards endless legions, The infernals can be summoned with ease again how many flesh Titans are there? http://www.wowwiki.com/Abyssal A flesh Titan solo the entire legion? The Eredars would down him/them by themselves.

Sorry what? I doesn't assume that a Flesh Titan can solo the entire Legion... ans that I take WoWwiki's word higher then your own sorry, unless you can provide with a Video that clearly proofs that when the Destroyers capacity to absorb mana is overloaded then it explodes but stays intact. You are using Gameplay to justify the Destroyers Immunity to magic a weakness that is none existant in lore, so please don't lol about me using it.

Provide the proof please.

quote and bold the point that says its magical please, but its pointless, it already says it destroyers summons.

Well the few that die will be kept up by Necromncers and liches who will be safely at the back of the lines, safe and sound. Infernals wiped out by anti summon devouring, Pitlords and Doomguards will not get anywhere, not when their crippled on the ground, also choose your forces, are there going to be most Doomgurads in the air or on the ground? make up your mind. No,the scourge have the most powerful mind in the warcraft universe empowering their will.....and being able to think singulary is pointless when your a big hukling dum@ss who will run in legions to find weakspots, their weak and stupid.

As ive said before, wheres a female pitlord? have you seen one yet? for all you know they are all back home or killed by the fel energies, either way we know for a fact weve not seen one unless youve got a quote somewhere, theres no baby pitlords running around that ive seen, their just a hellbent army which is likely their weakness. We know for a fact their very rare in comparison to other forces in the legion. Youve not explained how a crippled figuire can dispel....iif you break a mages arms and legs and jawbone for instance, he cannot speak or utter a spell or do handmovements for it. Felguards? lol, first your still assuming they outnumber the scourge, we dont know the full number of the scourge, we know that theres 250k in Glaciar alone however, even 250k of superior more powerful forces with better usage of powers will>>1 million, most of which has been shown to be Felguards which are pathetic, most will die to Destroyer AOE.

Well these are the average spells a Necromancer uses, if you look at most of the other Necromancers in Naxx, you can see they also use various powers such as nature (poison) corrosive damage, various types of shadow, death, so many spells at their control.

I said abominations, flesh giants and god knows what else.....so far theres a known one Flesh titan, thats all the scourge need.

Right yeh...while he polarises them all and BOOM!, half the legion are dead or at least the ground forces, id like to see Eredar do anything while their in pieces.

Ime not assuming that, i know a single one would solo most of the legion. WoWwiki does not contradict me, it says they explode, and ill continue that with "mana and energy" nothing says the things themselves break at all..your assuming that part utrigos, a part I know from personal experiance. Yes thats the thing, you see ime using abilities, abilities are canon in games, but your using gameplay mechanics, as in, how a tank in the game can stop one.

YouTube video

see the vid? now lets ask ourselves some questions, perhaps the raid wants Moam to survive....we all love him, so we mana drain him to keep him alive while hes trying to mana drain us because hes a suicidal emo.

This video shows his explosion, HE himself does not explode into pieces, however he explodes into a massive AOE mana blast.

Well to be honest, i dont need any proof, it says they explode and they do....your the one assuming they fall into pieces afterwards. Their massive AOE explosion that will constantly be going on, will turn the Felguard numbers from hundreds of thousands to a few thousands in minutes. Also please use some logic, answer me this, why do raid groups drain the mana of a Destroyer before it reaches its peak if it dies at its peak? surely they would just let it die......oh no ofc not that because it doesnt.

Originally posted by Nozdormu
Those two sentences really didnt go well together..

As i explained to Utrigos....abilities are fine, gameplay mechanics however are not.

Originally posted by Burning thought
As i explained to Utrigos....abilities are fine, gameplay mechanics however are not.

Because I assume you've fought him, right? You have been part of the actual encounter, right?

Originally posted by Nozdormu
I've read all your talk about the flesh titan.. He really isnt as good as you make him seem to be.. Whatever make you think he could solo most of the legion is beyond my understanding..

Because I assume you've fought him, right? You have been part of the actual encounter, right?

sure he is, polarity alone would blow half the legion to the otherside of the void, imagine half a million demons all exploding at once....then we have the fact the guy himself is an enormous lightning conducting fiend.

Ive fought him, you have to be away from various beings in the group because of his polarity weapon, if he polarises your group and you stand next to your m8s you end up blown up. The legion are always close to eachother.

First of all: Polarity Switch deals damage over time.. it is not an "instant pop", unlike the finger of death from the eredar warlocks..

Second of all: Burning Legion also has creatures with Polarity Switch.. Since they also have higher numbers, I guess it is THEY who blast the SCOURGE to the other side of the void, since appearently Polarity Switch can destroy the entire legions with one single Flesh Titan, then I can only imagine how efficient the Legion will be since they have numerous..

Thirdly: Unlike the Legion, the Scourge has nothing that is immune to magic.. You also need to keep in mind that polarity switch may, yes, kill the target, but also strengthen them.. A positive positive switch strengthen the opponent, while a negative positive harm them, then yet again, a negative negative also boost the opponent.. It's not as good as you claim it to be.. it's a 33% chance that they will pop (with damage over period of time), since a negative negative or positive positive will boost the target and not damage it.. Three various combos can be made, where two of them result in a boost, while only one in damage.. The Flesh Titan has a 66% chance to boost the target rather than destroying it..

Taking in consideration that the Legion has far more endurant soldiers than the Scourge, they can bring down the few, or even one Flesh Titan without problem..

Remember that the polarity switch is random.. I'd hate to be that Flesh Titan if a bunch of doom guards or eredar warlocks all got positive charges..

Yes, I have taken in consideration that the Scourge too would be able to get positive enhancements, but an eredar warlock defeats a scourge lich hands down anytime.. This point isnt even arguable, since, unlike the liches, the eredar warlocks only has to lift a finger to kill a target.. The eredar warlock has also shown more impressive qualities of magic.. This as well can not be denied.. and again, unlike the Scourge, the Legion has magic immune creatures..

Originally posted by Nozdormu
First of all: Polarity Switch deals damage over time.. it is not an "instant pop", unlike the finger of death from the eredar warlocks..

Second of all: Burning Legion also has creatures with Polarity Switch.. Since they also have higher numbers, I guess it is THEY who blast the SCOURGE to the other side of the void, since appearently Polarity Switch can destroy the entire legions with one single Flesh Titan, then I can only imagine how efficient the Legion will be since they have numerous..

Thirdly: Unlike the Legion, the Scourge has nothing that is immune to magic.. You also need to keep in mind that polarity switch may, yes, kill the target, but also strengthen them.. A positive positive switch strengthen the opponent, while a negative positive harm them, then yet again, a negative negative also boost the opponent.. It's not as good as you claim it to be.. it's a 33% chance that they will pop (with damage over period of time), since a negative negative or positive positive will boost the target and not damage it.. Three various combos can be made, where two of them result in a boost, while only one in damage.. The Flesh Titan has a 66% chance to boost the target rather than destroying it..

Taking in consideration that the Legion has far more endurant soldiers than the Scourge, they can bring down the few, or even one Flesh Titan without problem..

Remember that the polarity switch is random.. I'd hate to be that Flesh Titan if a bunch of doom guards or eredar warlocks all got positive charges..

Yes, I have taken in consideration that the Scourge too would be able to get positive enhancements, but an eredar warlock defeats a scourge lich hands down anytime.. This point isnt even arguable, since, unlike the liches, the eredar warlocks only has to lift a finger to kill a target.. The eredar warlock has also shown more impressive qualities of magic.. This as well can not be denied.. and again, unlike the Scourge, the Legion has magic immune creatures..

The finger attacks one target, the polarity switch affects ALL targets who are of the opposite charge with a massive blast of nature damage (ouch), also its not magic, its sceintific, where does it say its magic? every 5 seconds to all beings in 10 yards, if Thaddius postiively charged a group then the group next to it neatively, they will all disintrrate and die in seconds only, and yes...they get a bonus, so what? its a bonus in damage, if its melee soldiers and Thaddius or whatever Flesh titan is at long range the crippled and weakened pit lords who are cursed by Necromancers, the Doom lords, they will all perish in a massive chain reaction.

Nothing state them definaltey having higher numbers, and no, its the numbers that actually work against the Legion and their formations, the legion in every episode have huge block formations of their armies, this will smash them to pieces, but as weve seen, magic users of the scourge usually dont stand amongst their thralls, so even if the legion do have polarity charge it would not be as effective, not to mention nature damage harms legion most of all as we all know...second, can you show me the legion characters who have polarity charge?

Destroyers are magic immune....also as i said, nothing states to me from the Flesh titans that they are magical, their animation is the only magical aspect, they use machinery and electricity.

Ime talking about the 10 yard polarity charge, thats what will destroy the legion.

Not at all, because the legion haev nothing that would take on a Flesh titan, what makes you think the legion are more endurant than a flesh titan? hell evne more so, the thing is a range unit, the Scourge have far too many diffrent soldiers that can completly incapaictate anything wortth speaking of, Pitlords/Doom guards can be crippled/webbed , infernals summons devoured, their casters all drained of their mana if their not dead and the large AOE explosinos of Destroyers who are maigc immune btw.

The positive and Negative charges will effect the legion and they will not be running around, knowing who is what polarity, they will all explode and dissolve over time, in a few minutes, a single Flesh titan would have killed every non magic immune burning legion warrior or all of them if you cannot prove the "magic" element in the polarity.

What if the target is already dead? thats the thing with the scourge, people are overlooking their not alive in the first place, their simply animations, they do not fall so easily, a ghoul would last in action far longer than any felguard, also Eredar warlocks need mana to cast, the scourge have Destroyers to stop this, Liches are not as weak as you keep calling them, as it said, "tremendously powerful" sorcerors, empowered by the Lich King himself...although they may not have access to as many "forms" and "schools" of magic, they are by no means outmatched so badly.

Since the rest is pointless and I dont feel like wasting time, I'll just point out this:

Destroyers are magic immune

No..

they are by no means outmatched so badly

Yes..

infernals summons devoured

No..

the legion in every episode have huge block formations of their armies

No..

nature damage harms legion most of all as we all know

No.. We only know it harmed Archimonde, and it wasnt only nature damage.. It was the essence of the World Tree..

Originally posted by Burning thought
quote and bold the point that says its magical please, but its pointless, it already says it destroyers summons.

Well the few that die will be kept up by Necromncers and liches who will be safely at the back of the lines, safe and sound. Infernals wiped out by anti summon devouring, Pitlords and Doomguards will not get anywhere, not when their crippled on the ground, also choose your forces, are there going to be most Doomgurads in the air or on the ground? make up your mind. No,the scourge have the most powerful mind in the warcraft universe empowering their will.....and being able to think singulary is pointless when your a big hukling dum@ss who will run in legions to find weakspots, their weak and stupid.

As ive said before, wheres a female pitlord? have you seen one yet? for all you know they are all back home or killed by the fel energies, either way we know for a fact weve not seen one unless youve got a quote somewhere, theres no baby pitlords running around that ive seen, their just a hellbent army which is likely their weakness. We know for a fact their very rare in comparison to other forces in the legion. Youve not explained how a crippled figuire can dispel....iif you break a mages arms and legs and jawbone for instance, he cannot speak or utter a spell or do handmovements for it. Felguards? lol, first your still [b]assuming they outnumber the scourge, we dont know the full number of the scourge, we know that theres 250k in Glaciar alone however, even 250k of superior more powerful forces with better usage of powers will>>1 million, most of which has been shown to be Felguards which are pathetic, most will die to Destroyer AOE.

Well these are the average spells a Necromancer uses, if you look at most of the other Necromancers in Naxx, you can see they also use various powers such as nature (poison) corrosive damage, various types of shadow, death, so many spells at their control.

I said abominations, flesh giants and god knows what else.....so far theres a known one Flesh titan, thats all the scourge need.

Right yeh...while he polarises them all and BOOM!, half the legion are dead or at least the ground forces, id like to see Eredar do anything while their in pieces.

Ime not assuming that, i know a single one would solo most of the legion. WoWwiki does not contradict me, it says they explode, and ill continue that with "mana and energy" nothing says the things themselves break at all..your assuming that part utrigos, a part I know from personal experiance. Yes thats the thing, you see ime using abilities, abilities are canon in games, but your using gameplay mechanics, as in, how a tank in the game can stop one.

YouTube video

see the vid? now lets ask ourselves some questions, perhaps the raid wants Moam to survive....we all love him, so we mana drain him to keep him alive while hes trying to mana drain us because hes a suicidal emo.

This video shows his explosion, HE himself does not explode into pieces, however he explodes into a massive AOE mana blast.

Well to be honest, i dont need any proof, it says they explode and they do....your the one assuming they fall into pieces afterwards. Their massive AOE explosion that will constantly be going on, will turn the Felguard numbers from hundreds of thousands to a few thousands in minutes. Also please use some logic, answer me this, why do raid groups drain the mana of a Destroyer before it reaches its peak if it dies at its peak? surely they would just let it die......oh no ofc not that because it doesnt.

As i explained to Utrigos....abilities are fine, gameplay mechanics however are not. [/B]

It's magical because it requires mana to perform, and again simply because the Infernals are a summoned unit it doesn't make them vulnerable to devour magic because devour magic is magical and the Infernals are immune.

[[|Devour Magic]]
Instant cast
30 yd range330 Mana
Purges 1 harmful magic effect from a friend or 1 beneficial magic effect from an enemy. If an effect is devoured, the Felhunter will be healed for X.

Those few that will die... They will die in higher numbers most notebly the Ghouls and Zombies which I would like to see proof of can contend with a Felguard that has numerous describtions attached to him about just how good a basic soldier he is. No they wouldn't because they are immune to magic. The Doomguards are highly resistant to magic along with the Pitlords and both can cast dispel. There forces of the Doomguards can be both on the ground and in the air, there are more then enough for that. The rest of that part is not even worth commenting on, since it's a personal opinion.

So because we have never seen a female Pit Lord it means that they doesn't exist, okay even though we know that the Pit lord are breed... That most likely because they doesn't get involved in battle and again the showings of the Pitlords have not been many, A cripple http://www.wowwiki.com/Cripple doesn't break your bones ore anything else of what you said, so the dispel will be no problem to cast. One million confirmed Demons are a lot more then 250.000 confirmed undead. Also the Felguards are the canon fodder the ones that drives the legions foothold forward like a relentless force of nature, if they where few they wouldn't be canon fodder and two wouldn't be consideret a relentless force. And again the Lich King will only keep them animated nothing else.

So all Necromancers can cast the spells you are refering too seems strange since http://www.wowwiki.com/Necromancer not a single reference to them having there normal abilities beyond the Necromancy aspect.

And endless hordes which actually was my primary request from where do you get the impression that they are endless?

If you want to believe that be my guest. And Nozdurmo has explained why that wouldn't be the case.

Wait you are using manadrain on a Obsidian destroyer that you claimed was immune to magic along with numerous other spells as shown in the video??? What are then stopping the Eredar from blasting that damm thing straight out of the sky since it apparently based on your own words and the showing in the video isn't immune to magic.

Keep in mind that crippe also is a "single target" ability.. Are the liches going to put a cripple on evern single one of the millions Legion soldiers? Cut a few hundred thousands out of that, since a considerable amount is immune to magic or those kind of effects specificly..

Originally posted by Burning thought
Who said their sitting around ,apprently the legion is constantly moving from world to world, conquering their not just sitting about breeding and this is all guesses since we dont know how they do it, if their capable after their fel transformation we dont know a lot of information on their breeindg habits,

Originally posted by Burning thought
ime sure a esteemed race of powerful maigcians will not sit about in the void breeding while Felhounds scamper about and with a big fat pitlord watching.

Originally posted by Burning thought
okie show me the entire quote please, and the page number of the source information.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Neither are you, as if with their size the Doomguard would take on, and their cumbersomeness in shape all thse massive stone constructs

Originally posted by Burning thought
hell is a Doomguard even capable of surviving Nerbuians knocking them from the sky

Originally posted by Burning thought
they would be taken down, and theres more than just Obsidion destroyers, frost wyrms and Gargoyles are fair anti-ar combatants as well.

Originally posted by Burning thought
They will not be difficult to cast, they are a massive AOE of massive range

http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/destroyer.shtml

Originally posted by Burning thought
hell they could just walk as well, fly, then walk when they hit the blockade then they would likely cause even more massive damage to the legion with AOE mana waves, thats if the Doom guards are not tied down by Nerubians etc etc.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But whats the point of making fire when you can create a massive void blast or else with the same or a more powerful effect? as i said, they can create or equel i bet almost any spelll when their using frost, shadow or poisonous death magic to similiar effect, Fireball-->Shadow bolt, lighting storm, Void blast. etc etc

The fact that they are restrained to two fields of magic only puts them at a severe disadvantage, because it gives them much less options to counterspell if they're attacked by a school of unfamiliar magic.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes ime aware of most of hte Eredar information, how does this help you in any way? please explina, infact it sort of helps me as it says they consumed most of their world with their power

Anyways, the fact that they consumed the world with their power doesn't mean anything other than the fact that their magic was so powerful as to consume their world with it. The Draenei were the barest minority of the Eredar race. As described in the prologue of the Rise of the Horde novel, Prophet Velen took with him a handful of faithful eredar followers and refugees to be whisked away by the Naaru.

Originally posted by Burning thought
hell most of the mian race could be dead which is why their not numerous.

You see plenty of eredar around WoW, for example the sorcerers in the Dead Scar on Quel'Thalas, and those ones populating the Arcatraz. They're not many compared to the overall influence on Azeroth and Outland by the Legion (which is significant but not enough to condone a true invasion.)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Okie can you quote me the page refrence, name of hte book and the entire quote of about a paragraph, or a few lines to show me the dragon encounter please, I need to know special mechanics, if the Dragon was at full speed, if it was surprised

Korialstrasz was not in full speed at the time, but they were definitely hurrying back to the host to try and be of some help. No, he was not surprised actually, while flying through the mist he spotted a Doomguard that saw him back and attempted to escape back to its brethren. Korialstrasz pursued, and was assaulted head on by a very large number of doomguard.

Quotations for the other occurence, when Broxigar accompanied Malfurion and Krasus on their attempt to steal the Demon Soul:
Krasus (To Malfurion): "Three of the doomguard in the skies above. I intend to take them on, with your help."

"Unlike Illidan, and even Rhonin at times, the dragon mage did not make elaborate displays out of his spellwork. So it was that the first, then the second demon simply exploded, their innards raining out across the land. But as he had feared, the third demon escaped his spell."

Originally posted by Burning thought
For all we know their equel in numbers and their not being harassed at all if their backed up by gargoyles and Frostwyrms.

Gargoyles, yes, but they're much weaker than the doomguard are one on one.
Frost wyrms were already accounted for.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Destroyers fit most of that bill

Originally posted by Burning thought
only destroyers can fire massive AOE blasts

Adds 20 bonus damage to the Destroyer's attack and causes his attacks to do area of effect damage.

Originally posted by Burning thought
are immune to magic and can fly......

Originally posted by Burning thought
at the same time as draining casters and making htem useless

http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/destroyer.shtml

Moam from AQ20 does a mana drain, but it does not burn for any damage (until he fills up) and the mana taken does not make a caster useless. Besides, Eredar could simply drain their mana back from another source of power, like the banshees or necromancers, who cannot replenish their mana so easily.

Originally posted by Burning thought
the Pitlords id be surprised if they even got into the thick of the battle, theyll be annhilated from range by spells

Pit lords wade right into battle; the more opponents the better. If the pit lord has a chance to prepare, or if facing a great many opponents, it casts haste on itself. Against large numbers of enemies to all sides a pit lord uses its doom stomp, sweeping cleave, and tail sweep abilities to thin them out. Once the pit lord can focus things down to just a few melee opponents, the pit lord begins full attack actions. Only after being slain and rising again with its rebirth ability does a pit lord really summon other demons and use its spell-like abilities.

Originally posted by Burning thought
physical long range and cripple combinations.

Finger of Death.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no thats if the Eredar are left alone to do it and thats if you can prove the eredar have enough mana to constantly do it

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also prove their few in comparison, their from the bones of dragons who have died in Northrend since the beginning of Azeroth

As far as I know, there have been no named dragons that have died that way. So far almost all of them featured have perished in battle or something similar. Look at Tyranastrasz, even he was old and failing and he was still slain by Deathwing in one on one battle.

Originally posted by Burning thought
for all we know the dragons alone could outnumber all the heavy Legion forces.

Originally posted by Burning thought
As i said, Destroyers would devour them as well, their summoned, so devouring them will destroy them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats devoid of logic comepltly, anything to do with maigc has to be magical, not at all

If it deals with magic, it’s magical. I simply got my reasoning from the actual passive definition of it.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magical
Look at #3.

Originally posted by Burning thought
all it is is sucking magic in, no magic is hitting the Infernal at all hes just losing his own and is dieing because of it, infernals will fall.

Where’s your source that states that the infernal lore-wise would instantly be consumed? It’s not a skeleton or a lesser minion.

Originally posted by Burning thought
.they are a useless strategy for the limited time the magic users of the legion can even keep up with the scourge anyway.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It's magical because it requires mana to perform, and again simply because the Infernals are a summoned unit it doesn't make them vulnerable to devour magic because devour magic is magical and the Infernals are immune.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Devour_Magic

Those few that will die... They will die in higher numbers most notebly the Ghouls and Zombies which I would like to see proof of can contend with a Felguard that has numerous describtions attached to him about just how good a basic soldier he is. No they wouldn't because they are immune to magic. The Doomguards are highly resistant to magic along with the Pitlords and both can cast dispel. There forces of the Doomguards can be both on the ground and in the air, there are more then enough for that. The rest of that part is not even worth commenting on, since it's a personal opinion.

So because we have never seen a female Pit Lord it means that they doesn't exist, okay even though we know that the Pit lord are breed... That most likely because they doesn't get involved in battle and again the showings of the Pitlords have not been many, A cripple http://www.wowwiki.com/Cripple doesn't break your bones ore anything else of what you said, so the dispel will be no problem to cast. One million confirmed Demons are a lot more then 250.000 confirmed undead. Also the Felguards are the canon fodder the ones that drives the legions foothold forward like a relentless force of nature, if they where few they wouldn't be canon fodder and two wouldn't be consideret a relentless force. And again the Lich King will only keep them animated nothing else.

So all Necromancers can cast the spells you are refering too seems strange since http://www.wowwiki.com/Necromancer not a single reference to them having there normal abilities beyond the Necromancy aspect.

And endless hordes which actually was my primary request from where do you get the impression that they are endless?

If you want to believe that be my guest. And Nozdurmo has explained why that wouldn't be the case.

Wait you are using manadrain on a Obsidian destroyer that you claimed was immune to magic along with numerous other spells as shown in the video??? What are then stopping the Eredar from blasting that damm thing straight out of the sky since it apparently based on your own words and the showing in the video isn't immune to magic.

Wonderful, thats the weakness of the Felhunters you see, they use magic, show me the Obsidion Destroyers version please...ime pretty sure that A: using magic to suck magic from a being is not worried by spell immunity not to mention that Devour magic is not actually hitting th Infernal, its sucking his essence, its no projectile B:

http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/destroyer.shtml

heres the obisdion destroyers version, jolly good aint it? no mana cost...its not magical, it feeds the devourer, hes merely opening his mouth and yummy yummy yum, nice hot tasy Infernal for dinner.

A few notifactions of how good they are doesnt mean anything, the undead scourge have been called an undying army, look in the RPG book MOM at the undead abilities, page 156-159 some of their abilities and powers are quite incredible for both attack and survivablity.

They will try and cast dispel, but then because their crippled means they will find not only difficulty when their lying on the ground hardly able to move...no the spel ldoesnt break them otherwise it wouldnt wear off, it would give you the feeling of you being crippled as the spell implies however so you may as well be brokwn physically for the duration.

Can Noz give me notifaction of Doomguard numbers please with actual quotes of how many there are.

Can you show me where it says Pitlords are bred now, sure on their home world but now? along with the amy? until i see evidence or backing for any of these assumptions that i personally think are ridiculous, females following along with the burning legion indeed.

Obviously your not looking at it, look at the notable Necromancers section,

Shadow, Death, nature, Demonology, Frost, Arcane

The guys are hardly limited at all.....

Well mianly because they can rise again....more enedless or infnite than a million strong thats for sure...

WoW balance does not concern me, the abilitis of the destroyer as ive shown you and Nozmordu, and among them is mana drain, consumtion, and spell immunity, if the Destroyers need to have balance in WoW such as removing their spell immuntiy then that is none of my concern, gameplay ftl, that video was sowing you how they explode, not themselves.

Originally posted by Nozdormu
Since the rest is pointless and I dont feel like wasting time, I'll just point out this:

No..

Yes..

No..

No..

No.. We only know it harmed Archimonde, and it wasnt only nature damage.. It was the essence of the World Tree..

Good, you dont have no points, its time for you to concede then...

oh and:

http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/destroyer.shtml

Ime pretty damn sure it says Spell immunity on there, does it not?......didnt play TFT did you hm?

Originally posted by Nozdormu
Keep in mind that crippe also is a "single target" ability.. Are the liches going to put a cripple on evern single one of the millions Legion soldiers? Cut a few hundred thousands out of that, since a considerable amount is immune to magic or those kind of effects specificly..

No, the one million legion soldiers (or less considering WoTA losses) are not all a threat, hounds and Felguards are nothing, not necessary, Doom gards and Pit lords however are.....so show me where it says Pitlords and Doom guards numbers please. Youve even got a scanner it seems.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can you show me where it says Pitlords are bred now, sure on their home world but now? along with the amy? until i see evidence or backing for any of these assumptions that i personally think are ridiculous, females following along with the burning legion indeed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Obviously your not looking at it, look at the notable Necromancers section,

Shadow, Death, nature, Demonology, Frost, Arcane

The guys are hardly limited at all.....

Death and shadow are pretty much the same thing. Look at which tree "Shadow Word: Death" is in for Priests.
And demonology would be a little quirky, since well....you're summoning demons to fight demons. There would be some trickiness into working that out.

Originally posted by Burning thought
http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/destroyer.shtml

Okey

Originally posted by DarkC
Yes, they are, but in the meantime it does not rob them of the ability to reproduce or multiply. As for breeding methods, it's undocumented other than the fel hounds who simply just shimmer and turn into two felhounds or more; much like cells and amoeba do, but they do have some method of reproducing otherwise they would have died out by now. The Draenei were technically what the Eredar used to be physically, and they can breed just fine.

Who says that all they do is breed? It's one among other things that they do.

You'll have to ask Nozdormu for that information, he can simply scan it for you. I cannot, seeing as how I don't have the book in front of me right now. I can recall situations, deeds, and to a point, quotations. That's it.

Are you referring to the size of an obsidian destroyer? They're larger than an individual doom guard, but with the numbers that the doom guard have, their size is insigificant.

Nope, but the webbing has a long cooldown and takes some time to produce again. Assuming the unlikeliness of the webbing all finding and hitting their mark somehow, the dent in the doomguard numbers will not be significantly high. Besides, they can easily fight just as well on the ground, if not better.

Frost Wyrms are powerful and would take down many doomguard, but they will eventually be overpowered by numbers, considering that they are not in any great numbers. Gargoyles are far more numerous, on par with the Legion's doomguard, but the doomguard is more than twice as strong/tough as a gargoyle. Look at their stats on battle.net.

A 20 yard area of effect is not "massive". 60 yards is, but channeled warlock magic works farther than that, which means they'll have to fly further in order to reach them.

http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/destroyer.shtml

Are you suggesting that the obsidian destroyers bypass the blockade by attempting to move through the entire Legion host to get to the sorcerers at the back? They'd have more luck trying to go by air.

You're thinking offensively, not defensively.

The fact that they are restrained to two fields of magic only puts them at a severe disadvantage, because it gives them much less options to counterspell if they're attacked by a school of unfamiliar magic.

I meant to actually put the quote in the post above referring to the Eredar.

Anyways, the fact that they consumed the world with their power doesn't mean anything other than the fact that their magic was so powerful as to consume their world with it. The Draenei were the barest minority of the Eredar race. As described in the prologue of the Rise of the Horde novel, Prophet Velen took with him a handful of faithful eredar followers and refugees to be whisked away by the Naaru.

Actually, the few eredar mentioned or featured in WoW are those of officer rank, and they are not numerous. Shartuul, for example.

You see plenty of eredar around WoW, for example the sorcerers in the Dead Scar on Quel'Thalas, and those ones populating the Arcatraz. They're not many compared to the overall influence on Azeroth and Outland by the Legion (which is significant but not enough to condone a true invasion.)

No, as I said before I do not have the book with me; Nozdormu does. Ask him for that. I can recall occurences and quotations to a point.

Korialstrasz was not in full speed at the time, but they were definitely hurrying back to the host to try and be of some help. No, he was not surprised actually, while flying through the mist he spotted a Doomguard that saw him back and attempted to escape back to its brethren. Korialstrasz pursued, and was assaulted head on by a very large number of doomguard.

Quotations for the other occurence, when Broxigar accompanied Malfurion and Krasus on their attempt to steal the Demon Soul:
Krasus (To Malfurion): "Three of the doomguard in the skies above. I intend to take them on, with your help."

"Unlike Illidan, and even Rhonin at times, the dragon mage did not make elaborate displays out of his spellwork. So it was that the first, then the second demon simply exploded, their innards raining out across the land. But as he had feared, the third demon escaped his spell."

Destroyers? No, as you said earlier they were not numerous in any way.

Gargoyles, yes, but they're much weaker than the doomguard are one on one.
Frost wyrms were already accounted for.

They aren't as physically durable as doomguard at all.
When in comparison to battle.net's Warcraft 3 stats, they're not even that much more durable than an Orc Grunt.

That apparently don't even do that much damage.

But not immune to blades, and doomguard can fly too. According to MoM, Obsidian Destroyers are not masters of flight.

Other than a latent mass dispel (which is listed as their main weapon) and mana regeneration as an effect, there doesn't appear to be anything on a mana burn or drain.

http://www.battle.net/war3/undead/units/destroyer.shtml

Moam from AQ20 does a mana drain, but it does not burn for any damage (until he fills up) and the mana taken does not make a caster useless. Besides, Eredar could simply drain their mana back from another source of power, like the banshees or necromancers, who cannot replenish their mana so easily.

okie so Felhounds can breed. Eredar are not Draenei, the Eredar are corrupted fel versions, also weve seen Draenei women.

okie, plz Noz

That is Moam, larger than the average Obsidion destroyer slightly, Obsidion destroyers are roughply a little smaller than Doom Guards.

Theres more Nerubians than there are Doom guards thats for sure, they are an actual race, been alive or dead (in the scourge command) for eons, and the LK not only gained their enormous city and them after winning the war of the spider, but also their dead and crypts. There would be so many Nerubians, able to just web up the doom guards, or magic users to cripple the Doom guards etc etc

Also almost forgot about the impressive cryptlrods with their locust swarm eating the legion alive, their huge mandable impale attack smashing through ranks, the things are also heavily armoured and covered in spikes.

Numbers? again I would like Noz to show me these numbers now he can scan, but ill humour you. The Frostwyrms as ive explained would be easily the same numbers if not close to the Doom guards, the Doom guards are still not real swarmers, not like Felguard.

The newer WoW obsidion destroyers have obviously retconned that since they have infnite range...so they could be draining from the front or back of the actual army most of the legion if not all. their explosions would kill all non spell immunes in seconds, the legion would dwindle massively.

Why would they have better luck? their massive stone constructs, they would wade through Felguards, Pitlords wouldnt pose a problem crippled on the ground, dont forget the entire scourge, Flesh giants/Abominations and the inumeralbe dead, not to mention the Legions dieing rising up....it would be an enormous swarm with Destroyers in the middle.

As ive shown to Utrigos, the Necromancers nor liches are restrained much at all.

its important because if their world was destroyed, their homeworld...theres going to be a lot of dead Eredar and no homeworld that could possibly supply the legion either if even thats a possible notion depending on its distance and if they have their own ability to singulary travel the nether.

That quote shows how the Doomguards resistence to maigc is not that profound, and as i thought, not moving at full speeds......but thanks for the information, ill ask nozmordu again, poor guy has so much to find if he can be bothered.

So your comparing HP stats? "sigh"......

Thats the orb of annhilation, ime talking about the Mana discharge.

Ofcourse not masters but a bonus to say Pitloeds, iwas descrbing how much more useful they are in comaprison to them.

Obsidion destroters in WoW have mass Drain like Moam and dispel.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Obsidian_Destroyer

Has an AOE Mana drain. If their mana tops off they blow up doing about 6k AOE Nature Damage (range unknown).

I belive taking mana from others requires mana nad yes a si said earlier, i was wrong about the mana burn, it doesnt burn the casters, just drains them, the Eredar will be in a massive disadvantage, especially if it starts slamming into the poor and helpless manaless casters or fireing orbs of chaos, the Eredar will be annhilated by the nature damage as well.

Originally posted by DarkC
Of course they'd get into the thick of battle.
Manual of Monsters quote:

And the Eredar can simply either shield or usurp the spell completely. Besides, the Pit Lords are sorcerers in their own right, they simply prefer melee combat. Mannoroth pointed a finger at an elven sorcerer, said a single word, and two seconds later the elf was crushed into a messy ball of flesh and bone that ignited right after.

Finger of Death.

Considering how far they would be spread out and the intervention of the doomguard, they would be harassed, but not to a point of any significance.

They are dragons that die from old age, Burning. They go there to die a completely natural death. They fly there when they sense that they have little or no time at all remaining.

As far as I know, there have been no named dragons that have died that way. So far almost all of them featured have perished in battle or something similar. Look at Tyranastrasz, even he was old and failing and he was still slain by Deathwing in one on one battle.

A hasty assumption, and an incorrect one at that. The dragons are much fewer now, especially since the near-extinction of the blues courtesy of Neltharion’s betrayal. Even before the betrayal, the dragons were not even abundant enough to fill Alexstrasza’s and the Red’s home caverns even with all the flights crowded in there.

They’d destroy some, but remember that you said they were not numerous. Infernals are. They’re summoned en masse as shown in WotA, and in unpredictable bursts. The AoE of a Destroyer’s attack is not particularly large either. Even if the destroyers were able to react properly to it (and I doubt they would considering that the Legion are able to mask them quite well in the skies until the final stretch) and even if somehow they are able to catch up with a falling meteor and attempt to drain it, the destroyers are not in any position to completely stop a shower of Infernals.

Why are you even trying to apply logic at all to something ambiguous and unpredictable as magic? Even Medivh and Krasus attested to the wild nature of it.

If it deals with magic, it’s magical. I simply got my reasoning from the actual passive definition of it.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/magical
Look at #3.

Devoured magic only does 180 damage to summoned units.
An infernal in WC3 has 1500 HP.

Where’s your source that states that the infernal lore-wise would instantly be consumed? It’s not a skeleton or a lesser minion.

Explain how.

Yes but they cant do that when Crippled.

yes if they had mana, the Destroters are not going to sit and wait their turn, this isnt turn based battle is it, there would be everything happening at once.

Well as iit says, for a long time the dragons have done that, the world has been around and so have the dragons far far longer than the legion have been attacking Azeroth. This is the resting place for all the old dragons, since theres so many flights, this would be thousands.

But thats now, LK has all the long dead ones from the history of the dragons in the bone graveyards on his homeground AND the blues he has slaughtered since then such as Sapphiron.

Combined with Destroyers taking on Eredar to stop the rain, the fact that the Eredar may not have enough mana, also you keep changing what the characters are doing, for example a handfull of Destroyers and another handful of destroyers both can be doing diffrent things but what about the Eredar? are they calling infernals in which case their doing nothing with their other magics, this means the casters doing that are out of the battle while the Scourge still have all theirs to fully concetrate on destruction and mayhem and crippleing big hitters.

Once again theres no point in using game values....

The same way anything would be consumed, the main facts of lore are this: the infernal is a magically summoned being, the Devour spell devours the maigc of magically summoned beings....this would simply destroy the infernal.

because all they really will be is an annoying thorn, they will weaken the legion by the following:

Infernal does not equel an Eredar, an Eredar should be doing more damage than an infernal anyway

destroyers can quite easily swallow the magic from Summonables so their not quite infdestructable juggernaughts as people make them out ot be.

All of these tacics are based on the limited duration the Legion can stop the Destroyers and the scourge from moving close either by air or ground, using Flesh giants/titan for support along with all the aobminations and nerbuians or in the air we could have Nerbubians knocking out the air and the Frostwyrms,large amoutns of Gargoyles and Destroyers themselves (being fat stone mosnters and the air of the legion are not magic immune either) .

Destroyers are crappy flyers though.. That'll be their downfall..