Superman Vs WWH (Definitive, Official, One and only thread)

Originally posted by carver9
None of them fight as fast as light if you ask me. There is no proof proving this claim. No on panel showings, nothing. You have some hyperbolic statements from each of them, hell, everyone has them but true showings of that speed, especially during combat, besides flash, it doesnt exist.

No proof from Val Amorr,the Karate Kid?

He was actually countering one of the Tornado Twins before the other got him. Flash level speedsters. Hit her with a dropkick, while she was moving at super speed. Not to mention dodging the lightning that Wally West was riding..

Plus there's KK dodging Ultraboy, who went into super speed mode. He has far too many examples and feats to say he can't handle super speed, any more than you can say because he doesn't posses super strength that means he can't chop a tank in half, despite actually doing it on panel..

Originally posted by Blanket
When he appears behind Superman right after he punches him a distance away?

Originally posted by cdtm
No proof from Val Amorr,the Karate Kid?

He was actually countering one of the Tornado Twins before the other got him. Flash level speedsters. Hit her with a dropkick, while she was moving at super speed. Not to mention dodging the lightning that Wally West was riding..

Plus there's KK dodging Ultraboy, who went into super speed mode. He has far too many examples and feats to say he can't handle super speed, any more than you can say because he doesn't posses super strength that means he can't chop a tank in half, despite actually doing it on panel..

You must didnt read my post, I didnt say that they dont possess super speed because they do but I did say that they dont possess light speed combat speed except flash.

Originally posted by carver9
You must didnt read my post, I didnt say that they dont possess super speed because they do but I did say that they dont possess light speed combat speed except flash.

And if a character like Val Amorr counters a Flash, who you claim has light speed combat ability?

Or Wonder Woman, who countered Wally West while blind?

Originally posted by cdtm
And if a character like Val Amorr counters a Flash, who you claim has light speed combat ability?

Or Wonder Woman, who countered Wally West while blind?

Nightwing=Light speed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Ixion83/TheTitans20i.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Ixion83/TheTitans20ii.jpg

LOL

Originally posted by carver9
Nightwing=Light speed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Ixion83/TheTitans20i.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Ixion83/TheTitans20ii.jpg

LOL

Well, I give you credit for not posting the more common Deathstroke scans. 😄

In the case of Amorr though, he has an extended history of performing stated and demonstrated feats of strength and speed outside of his weight class.. The Tornado Twins, Ultra Boy, Mon El (Who he dodged a super speed charge from and used his momentum to toss him into another solar system..) He even spun Superboy into the ground like a top, taking him out of commission.

And Wonder Woman has her own personal speed feats to bolster countering Flash. Nightwing and Slade don't really have the same pedigree to justify countering a Flash that Amorr and WW do...

Originally posted by cdtm
Well, I give you credit for not posting the more common Deathstroke scans. 😄

In the case of Amorr though, he has an extended history of performing stated and demonstrated feats of strength and speed outside of his weight class.. The Tornado Twins, Ultra Boy, Mon El (Who he dodged a super speed charge from and used his momentum to toss him into another solar system..) He even spun Superboy into the ground like a top, taking him out of commission.

And Wonder Woman has her own personal speed feats to bolster countering Flash. Nightwing and Slade don't really have the same pedigree to justify countering a Flash that Amorr and WW do...

But using Flash as a person to say that someone possess light speed reaction is crazy. I could post Grundy hitting Flash but its irrelevant.

Everything you said, I agree with, we only have a disagreement about one thing, them possessing light speed combat and there is nothing proving that they do. Wondy has one feat to her credit that MIGHT be a light speed combat feat but its a one time showing and it holds no credit here.

Originally posted by carver9
But using Flash as a person to say that someone possess light speed reaction is crazy. I could post Grundy hitting Flash but its irrelevant.

Everything you said, I agree with, we only have a disagreement about one thing, them possessing light speed combat and there is nothing proving that they do. Wondy has one feat to her credit that MIGHT be a light speed combat feat but its a one time showing and it holds no credit here.

Strictly speaking a no-nonsense, no PIS/no-CIP Flash isn't going to be tagged period except by someone at least as fast as Superman. But that's just it: the Flash is the king of CIP.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You don't need to be as fast as the Flash to tag him, you just need insanely good reflexes and decent skill.

Strictly speaking a no-nonsense, no PIS/no-CIP Flash isn't going to be tagged period except by someone at least as fast as Superman. But that's just it: the Flash is the king of CIP.

😕 Superman shouldnt even be able to tag flash, someone that can throw a thousand punches per second, someone that has on panel showings of moving at light speed. No, Flash would be a blur to Superman with none PIS and CIP off. Hell, Zoom took on the entire JLA including Supes and was STOMPING them (well it was supes, wondy, and GL) and he wasnt even moving at light speed.

Originally posted by carver9
😕 Superman shouldnt even be able to tag flash, someone that can throw a thousand punches per second, someone that has on panel showings of moving at light speed. No, Flash would be a blur to Superman with none PIS and CIP off. Hell, Zoom took on the entire JLA including Supes and was STOMPING them (well it was supes, wondy, and GL) and he wasnt even moving at light speed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wait till PR gets here. 😈

LOL 😆 , then thats when I am going to sign offline.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Nevermind what they say, it's what they show. Supes is a brawler, for the majority of his Big fighs against viable threats, he doesn't fly at them at his maximum speed and hit them with the fullest extent of his power, not never. He brawls and in this case WWH out brawls him.

with BFR Supes 10/10 obviously.

umm, supes using flying tackles all the time.

and they do show him using insane speed when he wants to.

Originally posted by carver9
No he doesnt.

yes he does. it was even stated.

also:

Flash is faster than Superman. It's been stated. Flash makes pretty much every other herald look like a snail next to him in terms of both travel and reflex speed.

still doesnt mean that superman can't or doesn't use speed. like the time he fought that samurai guy and every movement was causing sonic booms.

he's one of the fastest (if not the fastest) non-Flash high herald when it comes to combat speed.

Originally posted by -Pr-
umm, supes using flying tackles all the time.

Not to mention other tactics.

I mean, who "isn't" a brawler going by most continuity? You've got to look past that stuff when they're written smart, like the time Superman simply launched Neutron into orbit, or when he tossed Kanto far away instead of get involved in an extended fight.

Or in Lobo and Supes retconned first meeting, Supes took advantage of the fact that Lobo can't fly and simply tossed him around, and threw him into stuff.

There's plenty of examples of Supes using some intelligence with his power set, instead of simply tossing punches.

Hulk win.

Sups fly. Granted. But he doesn't possess enough firepower beside his punches to put down Hulk. In fact, he can't put him down with anything else. Heat vision? Seriously guys, Hulk survived supernova and being in the core of a planet. Freeze him? Ask Iceman how much it helps.

So, even if Sups fly, he will have to go trade blows with Hulk. And it ends there. Hulk outpower him, and that's all.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Hulk win.

Sups fly. Granted. But he doesn't possess enough firepower beside his punches to put down Hulk. In fact, he can't put him down with anything else. Heat vision? Seriously guys, Hulk survived supernova and being in the core of a planet. Freeze him? Ask Iceman how much it helps.

So, even if Sups fly, he will have to go trade blows with Hulk. And it ends there. Hulk outpower him, and that's all.

Punches hurt a lot. If you are going to stand there and say Superman's punches that can destroy planet can't hurt Hulk then you need to re-read WWH arc.

Ice breath may not be a game breaker but it helps in so many ways. Freeze+HV+Punches like he did against Imperiex, and DD. Both who were stronger then WWH,

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Hulk win.

Sups fly. Granted. But he doesn't possess enough firepower beside his punches to put down Hulk. In fact, he can't put him down with anything else. Heat vision? Seriously guys, Hulk survived supernova and being in the core of a planet. Freeze him? Ask Iceman how much it helps.

So, even if Sups fly, he will have to go trade blows with Hulk. And it ends there. Hulk outpower him, and that's all.

The fight will go the way of DoS. Given supes can fly a light speed and DD weighed in at oh, say about 1.5 tones maybe 2, he could have launched/carried DD into orbit in about 0.0000038 seconds and proceeded to have the upperhand in space. BUT..because Supes fights likea moron sometimes he tried to brawl it out. Hulk out brawls him.

For every instance showing supes using superspeed against a non super speeded opponent, i can show you one with a non-superspeed opponent throttling Supes. So many that it could be argued the norm that - while in supes power to do so - he doesnt fight to his best capability nearly NEVER. Were not arguing the 'superman powerset' vs 'the hulk powerset' were arguing characters. Would Supes be a blur to Hulk if they fought? um no. Not by showings. And when people say supes doesnt want to be touched - he wont...just what exactly are you saying about his intelligence if he 'wants' to take all these blows he can so easily avoid..lol.

The reasoning here is starting to get a little H1a8 'spiderman can't be touched by any street leveller' ummkay...

CISless, i'll grant superman all the wins he wants,Cisless is powerset vs powerset. This fight isnt, Hulk Pounds.

Superman chucks him into space. Fight over.

Can't believe it takes you guys 106 pages to figure this out.

Superman wins a vast majority even without bfr

Originally posted by iceman24567
Superman wins a vast majority even without bfr

scans of a somewhat current Hulk being punched into submission?