Magnet. First of all, I'm tired of your "Lol cartoon isn't canon!!!11!!" stance. People have already prove to you that it's real- GL even supports it and personally approved it.
Nice strawman.
Excuse me if I really don't care what your tired of, till you fully refute it, I'm going to keep saying it. As I've said THE EVENTS of CWC are fully canon, save for the ones that contradict with the novels (Labryinth of Evil, displays a very different battle of Coruscant that Fanus was attempting to use in conjunction with the CWC, which is just plain stupid) apparently are not. The powers that the Jedi display are purposefully over the top and exaggerated and yes GL supports the vision there, super, but when they are in direct disposition with stated novel material and movie material, they simply remain as what they are "a vision of what Jedi should be like."
The official response from LeeLand Chee (LFL's continuity guy) about the Mace's ability in CWC is:
Tasty Taste
Member Profile
Total Posts: 1351
Member Since: 05/00
reply
Date Posted: Apr 05, 2004 11:17 AM
Mace's powers...
The "stylistic and narrative choices made by the creators specifically for the medium" response applies here.
Meaning: Mace can't really do all that, and its only done for the cartoon. The diffenece between that and TFU is the TFU depiction of powers are intended to be canon and these characters are fully capable of using them outside of the video game medium.
As I've stated before the CWC portrayal of Mace is inconsistent with Shatterpoint, had Mace displayed the same type of power that he does in CWC in ANY novel I'd take the CWC portrayal with more then a grain of salt.
Exert from Shatterpoint:
"Mace opened himself to the force. He could hear Yoda's voice: Size matters not -- which, Mace had always privatetly considered had been more true for Yoda than any of his other students. Yoda would probably just reach out, lift the steam crawler from the gully, and casually float it to it up the mountain...Mace was much less confident in his own raw power."
Um wut? Where'd the Mace of the CWC go? THAT Mace would simply do what he said Yoda would do. I'll tell you what happened to that Mace, he never really existed, sure he destroyed the droid army and the tank but he DIDN'T do it in the way the CWC showed because that is simply a: "stylistic and narrative choice made by the creators specifically for the medium".
The problem with your argument is that without the CWC your entire argument of Mace being able to survive Vader in a force battle falls apart.
You see mine, without TFU I can still make the same case I made before, TFU only supplements it.
But, I will indulge you: say for instance we do accept Maces CWC display as fact, that still doesn't explain how he'll stop a force assult from Vader. So he can do all kinds of fancy moves and powers to DROIDS, good for him, now do tell how that will save him from someone else who can you know USE THE FORCE. Shatterpoint takes place after the Battle of Dantooine and I'll show you what happened when Mace faced a superior force user:
"the Force whirled around him and Mace found himself wrenched off the ground, hurtling backwards through the air to slam against the tree...the whole tree shivered with impact...he managed to raise one gesture as though throwing a stone; Mace was whirled forward from the tree to crash against the skull of an astonished akk dog."
See, it doesn't matter against a superior force users Mace's own skill is nearly completely negated. So I pose the question once again: now if Vastpr an inferior to Vader managed to bypass Windu's force shield and overwhelm him, pray tell how he will stop Vader? Because Vader IS superior to Vastor in force power, usage and mastery.
And just so we don't circle around again:
You Posted:
Oh, and why didn't Vader "Uber force pwn!!11!!!" Maul? Why didn't he disable Luke effortlessly with the force? Inconsistency, much? It's the same thing as Mace.
I Posted:
Luke beating him in a fit of rage, and why he couldn't stop it - as you admitted he was emotionally conflicted and was truley surpised by Lukes power, what you failed to even acknowledge is what I posted: Luke in the Courtship of Princess Leia notes after being trapped up in the Force by one of the witches, that Vader could have easily done the same to him in ROTJ if he wanted too.Maul - as already said Vader could have destroyed him and the prophets and Allankles said it best:
There goes that argument
You posted:
Futhermore, how will Vader get away from Mace fast enough to crush him with the force? Mace is considerably faster, and is no slouch in the force, either- Vader doesn't have the mobility and the speed to get away from Mace Windu in combat. If he makes the mistake of engaging Mace in a lightsaber duel, he's doomed.
I aleady said Vader would lose a saber duel.
Vaapad takes a certain amount of extreme practice- and mastery of most, if not all of the forms in order to attain some mastery in it. Vader never displayed any interest it- one has to train extensively if they wish to even begin mastery of Vaapad, the most complex, deadly, and advanced form. It's also plausible that he learned some Juyo moves, rather than Vaapad.
And still: RODV states Vader has a working knowledge of all forms of combat, that includes Vaapad.
Originally posted by Chick Magnet
And still: RODV states Vader has a working knowledge of all forms of combat, that includes Vaapad.
Um, no. Vaapad was invented primarily by Mace Windu with the assistance of Sora Bulq; indoctrination in the Temple on that form, according to The Essential Guide to the Force, requires Windu's explicit permission and mentorship. No evidence suggests he ever learned it or had a "working knowledge" of it and all points to the contrary. At best, he was instructed in Juyo.
LOL WUT?
But, I will indulge you: say for instance we do accept Maces CWC display as fact, that still doesn't explain how he'll stop a force assult from Vader. So he can do all kinds of fancy moves and powers to DROIDS, good for him, now do tell how that will save him from someone else who can you know USE THE FORCE. Shatterpoint takes place after the Battle of Dantooine and I'll show you what happened when Mace faced a superior force user:"the Force whirled around him and Mace found himself wrenched off the ground, hurtling backwards through the air to slam against the tree...the whole tree shivered with impact...he managed to raise one gesture as though throwing a stone; Mace was whirled forward from the tree to crash against the skull of an astonished akk dog."
See, it doesn't matter against a superior force users Mace's own skill is nearly completely negated. So I pose the question once again: now if Vastpr an inferior to Vader managed to bypass Windu's force shield and overwhelm him, pray tell how he will stop Vader? Because Vader IS superior to Vastor in force power, usage and mastery.
Again nice strawman.
And no there:
"stylistic and narrative choices made by the creators specifically for the medium". The End.
And TUF features "over-the-top" powers meant to represent the team's "re-imagining" of the Force and how it can be applied.
Again, nowhere does Vader replicate the kind of power he demonstrates in the gameplay clips. That and Kota ripping a space station in half make the point more than clear, and it's stupid to try and pass anything from TUF off as canon three months before it is released. The novel will dictate canon, and that's all.
Looking at this argument, both of you (Faunus and Chick Magnet) are basically taking turns belittling the feats of the opposition; it's really stupid.
Faunus, use your head here. Darth Vader's strength in the Force outstrips Kar Vastor, who was supposedly top tier during the prequel trilogy, moreover, he's got 80% of the Force strength of the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history; why are you trying to dismiss his feats? The Force Unleashed is actually taking Vader's potency to a much more realistic level, and it's downright stupid to assume, expect, or imply that all he is capable of is above average telekinesis.
In the same token, however, Mace Windu is regarded as one of the greatest and most proficient lightsaber duelists ever. He's top tier as a combatant; we already know that to be a truly great duelist, one must possess a strong connection to the Force. So, likewise, it's stupid to belittle Mace Windu's own feats.
Neither of these two are average or slightly above average. They are top tier duelists and Force users and going "LOLZ MACE WINDU SUX IN TEH FORCE" or the same for Darth Vader is absolutely retarded.
"the Force whirled around him and Mace found himself wrenched off the ground, hurtling backwards through the air to slam against the tree...the whole tree shivered with impact...he managed to raise one gesture as though throwing a stone; Mace was whirled forward from the tree to crash against the skull of an astonished akk dog."See, it doesn't matter against a superior force users Mace's own skill is nearly completely negated. So I pose the question once again: now if Vastpr an inferior to Vader managed to bypass Windu's force shield and overwhelm him, pray tell how he will stop Vader? Because Vader IS superior to Vastor in force power, usage and mastery.
And really, its not like Kar pushed Mace and Vader>Kar so Mace won't be able to resist any powers Vader uses against him. The success of force attacks
has much to do with surprise, as well as force strength. Mace is able to counter Vastor's force grip later in the fight.
Sure, this won't be Vastor that Mace is trying to resist, Vader is more powerful. Then again, Mace at that point in Shatterpoint isn't at his best. He
hasn't slept since the fight with the gunships. He is dealing with the emotional turmoil of Depa Billaba's actions. He hasn't meditated or drawn
heavily on the force for fear of getting "blood fever". He has not yet realized that the darkness is not to be feared. The fact that he is able to
ground Vastor's attack at all is quite immpressive (he is never described as having a hard time grounding the attack by the way).
I don't think anyone is saying Vader wouldn't most likely win a force fight. I don't think anyone is saying Mace wouldn't most likely win a lightsaber
fight. But with Mace's shatterpoint and his incredible speed he can quickly make this a lightsaber duel, and keep it a lightsaber duel.
Originally posted by Gideon
Looking at this argument, both of you (Faunus and Chick Magnet) are basically taking turns belittling the feats of the opposition; it's really stupid.Faunus, use your head here. Darth Vader's strength in the Force outstrips Kar Vastor, who was supposedly top tier during the prequel trilogy, moreover, he's got 80% of the Force strength of the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history; why are you trying to dismiss his feats? The Force Unleashed is actually taking Vader's potency to a much more realistic level, and it's downright stupid to assume, expect, or imply that all he is capable of is above average telekinesis.
In the same token, however, Mace Windu is regarded as one of the greatest and most proficient lightsaber duelists ever. He's top tier as a combatant; we already know that to be a truly great duelist, one must possess a strong connection to the Force. So, likewise, it's stupid to belittle Mace Windu's own feats.
Neither of these two are average or slightly above average. They are top tier duelists and Force users and going "LOLZ MACE WINDU SUX IN TEH FORCE" or the same for Darth Vader is absolutely retarded.
nicely said. this should end the debate really.