Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Marvel has stated on panel that Juggernaut has unlimited potential. (Incredible Hulk #432)
Show me. Do you have any scans? Where do you get this reference from? Why hasn't Juggs ever increased his strength in battle? And increasing one's strength 1lb per hour is also limitless potential by definition. He has no known upper limits as his bios says but this doesn't mean limitless.
Originally posted by Mindset
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess he got it from Incredible Hulk 432.
I doubt it. He most likely got it from some internet site. People also misinterpret things and twist facts up to their liking. That is why it is important to show scans when others don't have the comic.
Originally posted by h1a8
I doubt it. He most likely got it from some internet site. People also misinterpret things and twist facts up to their liking. That is why it is important to show scans when others don't have the comic.
At the end of issue 432 the writers say Juggernaut's strength is limitless. It isn't a misinterpretation. In the issue where the Evil Trion took over his body, his strength increased pretty fast. Xavier even said Cain would be more dangerous if he knew how to use he power correctly in that issue. He also said his attacks where getting stronger in the Hulk fight.
2 times in 2 different comics Hulk writers have said Juggernaut has unlimited potential. But unlike Hulk Juggs doesn't appear as much nor does he have his own comic. So you are not going to get many examples. In Juggernaut's one shot, D'Spayre took "all" of his Cains power to his knowledge. To D'Spayre's surprises Cain stood before him as nothing but a skeleton. But that shouldn't have happened if D'Spayre took "all" of his power. That is an example of Cain drawing on more power.
But I also see where you are coming from with the, rate at which he can increase his strength. It would also depend on if two characters increase their strength at the same rate, who started out higher. Or if one could gain more power faster then the other. Depending on the story and writer can only give you that answer.
Originally posted by h1a8
There's no proof that Jugg's strength is limitless. When has he shown to increase his strength on panel? Being almost unstoppable has nothing to do with being limitless.And even if it is limitless (need panel proof though) then who's to say how fast his strength can grow. He can very well gain 1lb of strength per hour.
Did you even read my post? I have in no way claimed or stated that Juggernaut's strength is limitless. What I did state was that Juggernaut's strength COULD be limitless, but Juggernaut himself can still be weaker than another Juggernaut incarnation. Big difference.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
At the end of issue 432 the writers say Juggernaut's strength is limitless. It isn't a misinterpretation. In the issue where the Evil Trion took over his body, his strength increased pretty fast. Xavier even said Cain would be more dangerous if he knew how to use he power correctly in that issue. He also said his attacks where getting stronger in the Hulk fight.2 times in 2 different comics Hulk writers have said Juggernaut has unlimited potential. But unlike Hulk Juggs doesn't appear as much nor does he have his own comic. So you are not going to get many examples. In Juggernaut's one shot, D'Spayre took "all" of his Cains power to his knowledge. To D'Spayre's surprises Cain stood before him as nothing but a skeleton. But that shouldn't have happened if D'Spayre took "all" of his power. That is an example of Cain drawing on more power.
But I also see where you are coming from with the, rate at which he can increase his strength. It would also depend on if two characters increase their strength at the same rate, who started out higher. Or if one could gain more power faster then the other. Depending on the story and writer can only give you that answer.
The was an issue where Juggs gave his buddy Cassidy half his power. They both were weaker than the original Juggs. No where did either increased their strength to the original Jugg's strength level. By their defeat Juggs threw the gem into outer space so that no one can share his power (and thus weaken him).
Writers quotes are not canon. And healing oneself isn't the same as unlimited strength. Cyttorak limits the strength and power of Juggs. This is why both 8th day and Trion were stronger. So while it may be the truth, it is not practical to say that a character has unlimited potential in anything when it will never be an available option in the forum battle. For example, Superman has unlimited potential too. But it requires him to be sundipped though. And that isn't an option in the forum battle. The same is with Juggs. Juggs has lost many many battles. So I don't see Cyttorak increasing his strength to 8th day levels or beyond just because he's fighting someone losing.
Originally posted by Ouallada
Did you even read my post? I have in no way claimed or stated that Juggernaut's strength is limitless. What I did state was that Juggernaut's strength COULD be limitless, but Juggernaut himself can still be weaker than another Juggernaut incarnation. Big difference.
The hypothetical COULD doesn't apply to fictional characters. This is because they don't exist. Thus it all depends on the writers' opinions. But writer's opinions may or may not be valid as some of us only go on on panel evidence. But according to the entire Jugg's history, it seems that all writers who wrote Juggs never intended on Juggs having the power to increase his strength on his own will. His strength level depends on the will of Cyttorak alone. Meaning, Cyttorak limits his strength. This is why 8th day and Trion were stronger and why Juggs and Cassidy were weaker than the original Juggs when they shared the power.
But it is a waste of time even mentioning something that isn't practical (or won't happen) in a forum fight. This is to say, I don't see Cyttorak increasing Juggs strength beyond any limits just because he's fighting someone and losing. So saying that Juggs have (or could have) unlimited potential doesn't help him here. It is a moot point indeed.
Sorry for me misunderstanding you though. And note, some of this post isn't directed towards you but any who thinks that Juggs can increase his strength beyond any limit off his own will.
Originally posted by h1a8
The was an issue where Juggs gave his buddy Cassidy half his power. They both were weaker than the original Juggs. No where did either increased their strength to the original Jugg's strength level. By their defeat Juggs threw the gem into outer space so that no one can share his power (and thus weaken him).Writers quotes are not canon. And healing oneself isn't the same as unlimited strength. Cyttorak limits the strength and power of Juggs. This is why both 8th day and Trion were stronger. So while it may be the truth, it is not practical to say that a character has unlimited potential in anything when it will never be an available option in the forum battle. For example, Superman has unlimited potential too. But it requires him to be sundipped though. And that isn't an option in the forum battle. The same is with Juggs. Juggs has lost many many battles. So I don't see Cyttorak increasing his strength to 8th day levels or beyond just because he's fighting someone losing.
Juggernaut didn't attempt to draw on any more power.
I am going to go on what the writers say over your opinion. And I wasn't referencing him healing. D'Spraye said he took all of his power. Yet Juggernaut still had power. So that means he can draw on more power when he needs it.
If you read WWH X-men #3, you will read that Cyttorak says that he doesn't limit Cain's power. One of the editors at the time of 8th Day said Cain didn't have a power up. The Evil Trion that inhabited Cains body didn't power him up, nor did Cyttorak. The Trion was just using Cains power better and drawing on more of it.
Originally posted by Ptr_GrifinNo it doesn't. It just means that Cyttorak will always return Juggs to original power levels (not more). Remember Cyttorak limits him.
Juggernaut didn't attempt to draw on any more power.I am going to go on what the writers say over your opinion. And I wasn't referencing him healing. D'Spraye said he took all of his power. Yet Juggernaut still had power. So that means he can draw on more power when he needs it.
If you read WWH X-men #3, you will read that Cyttorak says that he doesn't limit Cain's power. One of the editors at the time of 8th Day said Cain didn't have a power up. The Evil Trion that inhabited Cains body didn't power him up, nor did Cyttorak. The Trion was just using Cains power better and drawing on more of it. [/B][/QUOTE] Writer's opinions aren't canon. This is because they can always change their mind, they don't always agree with other writers (or the original ones), etc. But when they put it in the comic then it is etched in stone.
If Cyttorak said this then he lied.
He indeed limits Juggs strength. Juggs being less evil is why Juggs was depowered by him. Also this is why Cyttorak increased Juggs in 8th day. This is why Juggs sharing his power weakens him.
Does anyone else notice a contradiction here...
Originally posted by h1a8
Writer's opinions aren't canon. This is because they can always change their mind, they don't always agree with other writers (or the original ones), etc. But when they put it in the comic then it is etched in stone.
Originally posted by h1a8If Cyttorak said this then he lied.
He indeed limits Juggs strength. Juggs being less evil is why Juggs was depowered by him. Also this is why Cyttorak increased Juggs in 8th day. This is why Juggs sharing his power weakens him. [/B]
Sorry I just had to point that out...
Originally posted by h1a8
If Cyttorak said this then he lied.
He indeed limits Juggs strength. Juggs being less evil is why Juggs was depowered by him. Also this is why Cyttorak increased Juggs in 8th day. This is why Juggs sharing his power weakens him.
No where has it ever been said that Cyttorak limits Cains strength. I like how you believe certain things on panel and not things you don't like.
Again I'll believe the writers and what they had Cyttorak say over your opinion.
Juggernaut indeed might have unlimited strength potential. Howver his strength is based on the amount of power he is able to draw from the cyttorrak gem. Hence the reason Trion is greater than 8th day who is in turn greater dan classic and classic is greater than current( at least cuurent b4 WWH). He wins because he wont tire and wondy cant hurt him but he can and will hurt her
Originally posted by Ptr_GrifinIt doesn't have to say. It only needs to show. It which it did.
No where has it ever been said that Cyttorak limits Cains strength. I like how you believe certain things on panel and not things you don't like.
Again I'll believe the writers and what they had Cyttorak say over your opinion.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Juggernaut indeed might have unlimited strength potential. Howver his strength is based on the amount of power he is able to draw from the cyttorrak gem. Hence the reason Trion is greater than 8th day who is in turn greater dan classic and classic is greater than current( at least cuurent b4 WWH). He wins because he wont tire and wondy cant hurt him but he can and will hurt her
Cyttorak limits the amount he can draw. That is why Cyttorak was able to depower him. That is why Juggs was weaker when he shared his power. That is why Cyttorak made Juggs stronger during 8th day and Trion saga. For if Juggs found a way to draw upon more power on his own will then he will still be at 8th day or Trion levels now wouldn't he?
Originally posted by h1a8Not really cause the amount of power he draws is determined by how focused he is on doing something.
Cyttorak limits the amount he can draw. That is why Cyttorak was able to depower him. That is why Juggs was weaker when he shared his power. That is why Cyttorak made Juggs stronger during 8th day and Trion saga. For if Juggs found a way to draw upon more power on his own will then he will still be at 8th day or Trion levels now wouldn't he?