Originally posted by Starscream M
it's official...you're a joke. you think that logan without adamantium, claws, or HF can beat Captain America, when he barely wins with all those extreme advantages.
With his healing factor Logan rails him for 10/10 - EASILY.
Physically, they are virtually mirror images of each other.
Skillwise, they are virtually mirror images of each other - and any evidence supporting one of them being Superior leans towards Wolverine.
A powerless Logan vs. a shield-less Captain America would be a clean split, if Wolverine was give a weak or two to adjust to his current conditions. Thrown straight into the fray with out time to adjust Captain America takes the majority; but Wolverine isn't exactly out of practice - he trains more than almost anyone else - and for the vast majority of his career (as a soldier, as a spy, as a black-opts spook) he didn't rely on his healing factor like he does now or his claws. Comic time wise how long as he been a member of the X-Men? 10-15 years? I don't think that is nearly long enough for him to have forgotten how he used to fight for the other 80+ years... but apparently you do.
Originally posted by Starscream M
Wolverine is not nearly as effective with fists as Cap America is.
Based on what exactly?
Wolverine went into clawless melee combat with Domina (who owned the entire group of x-men) and owned her - she couldn't even hit him.
Originally posted by Starscream M
So please don't make such a ridiculous assertion. Cap without his shield is still a great fighter, as he pretty much fights with his fists and kicks anyways, whereas Logan is heavily neutered without his claws
Wolverine without his claws is a great fighter, arguing otherwise is insanity. Did you know he rarely even used his claws prior to Weapon X? For most of his career (much longer than Caps) he relied on conventional weaponry - guns, knifes and his fists - the reliance on his claws is a relatively new development in Wolverine's long history. When Cap first met Wolverine, he wasn't even using his claws and he still saved Cap's ass.
You are seriously selling Wolverine short.
Originally posted by srankmissingninso what if he didn't use claws prior to weapon X? he didnt fight anyone impressive besides nameless nazis. His impressive showings all came after his claws became his clutch, not before.Wolverine without his claws is a great fighter, arguing otherwise is insanity. Did you know he rarely even used his claws prior to Weapon X? For most of his career (much longer than Caps) he relied on conventional weaponry - guns, knifes and his fists - the reliance on his claws is a relatively new development in Wolverine's long history. When Cap first met Wolverine, he wasn't even using his claws and he still saved Cap's ass.
Originally posted by Starscream M
Wolverine is not nearly as effective with fists as Cap America is.
😕
Since when?
Wolverine one shotted Crossbones... 😈
Originally posted by Starscream M
So please don't make such a ridiculous assertion. Cap without his shield is still a great fighter,
Originally posted by Starscream MI'll ask again, since when?
as he pretty much fights with his fists and kicks anyways, whereas Logan is heavily neutered without his claws.
When he got the advantage over DD? Without Claws.
Over Shang Chi? Without Claws til the very end.
Over Ogun the first time? Without claws.
Held off stick? Without claws.
Stood up to the Administrator longer than DP and Shatterstar combined? Without claws.
Went toe to toe with Sabes holding his own for some time? Without claws.
Same with Cyber: Without claws.
Got an advantage over Deadpool in Origins? Without claws, (OR an intent to win for that matter).
Curbed Bucky? Without claws.
Did it again? Without claws.
Railed through Yukio? Without claws.
Manhandled Crusher Creel? Without claws.
Was jacking Lady Deathstrike up immediately after having his Ada pulled out? Without claws.
Punished Warpath? Without claws.
Dominated Domina? Without claws.
Knocked Rogue through a loop? Without claws.
KO'd roughouse? Without claws.
Taught Kitty Pride, Storm, Jubes, Generation X, Black Widow, and a wealth of other X-men how to fight using martial arts... WITHOUT CLAWS OBVIOUSLY... 😐
Were you get off stating that he's a washout without them is so clearly outside of the scope of reality that I can't even believe you seriously said that.
Originally posted by jinzin
😕Since when?
Wolverine one shotted Crossbones... 😈
Wolverine without his powers is still a great fighter.
I'll ask again, since when?
When he got the advantage over DD? Without Claws.
Over Shang Chi? Without Claws til the very end.
Over Ogun the first time? Without claws.
Held off stick? Without claws.
Stood up to the Administrator longer than DP and Shatterstar combined? Without claws.
Went toe to toe with Sabes holding his own for some time? Without claws.
Same with Cyber: Without claws.
Got an advantage over Deadpool in Origins? Without claws, (OR an intent to win for that matter).
Curbed Bucky? Without claws.
Did it again? Without claws.
Railed through Yukio? Without claws.
Manhandled Crusher Creel? Without claws.
Was jacking Lady Deathstrike up immediately after having his Ada pulled out? Without claws.
Punished Warpath? Without claws.
Dominated Domina? Without claws.
Knocked Rogue through a loop? Without claws.
KO'd roughouse? Without claws.Taught Kitty Pride, Storm, Jubes, Generation X, Black Widow, and a wealth of other X-men how to fight using martial arts... WITHOUT CLAWS OBVIOUSLY... 😐
Were you get off stating that he's a washout without them is so clearly outside of the scope of reality that I can't even believe you seriously said that.
Yeah but you are forgetting that all that is apparently overridden by Wolverine not WTF pawning the Punisher. 🙄
Originally posted by psycho gundamno, the purpose of the thread is to test wolverine hand-to-hand skills Im guessing for all intents and purposes he is human
won't the lack of adamantium turn logan into his feral state? he would have strong fingernails like sabretooth has and enhanced speed, strength, and senses.
Originally posted by Starscream M
and if I remember correctly, logan had his claws, adamantium bones, and HF...meaning it is irrelevant to this thread
capt had his shield and Logan his claws. It pritty relevent actaully. and then part way through the fight Logans claws are made uselesses and he wins via kick which caused capt to ahve a blood clot.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Actually its the "Doesn't have time to adjust that makes this a spite.. as in he just got his adamantium ripped out, so he's in the same critical condition he was in when he had the adamantium ripped out... which means that without the HF its a dying man versus the gauntlet...
😂
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
With his healing factor Logan rails him for 10/10 - EASILY.
Wait Wolverine with no claws but with HF owns Cap?
Physically, they are virtually mirror images of each other.
Skillwise, they are virtually mirror images of each other - and any evidence supporting one of them being Superior leans towards Wolverine.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
but Wolverine isn't exactly out of practice - he trains more than almost anyone else -
I bet you're not going to prove that. Its been said on panel that Cap trains constantly. Wolverine ddoes train but he also hangs out in bars. Cap doesn't have much of a life outside training.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
and for the vast majority of his career (as a soldier, as a spy, as a black-opts spook) he didn't rely on his healing factor like he does now or his claws. Comic time wise how long as he been a member of the X-Men? 10-15 years? I don't think that is nearly long enough for him to have forgotten how he used to fight for the other 80+ years... but apparently you do.
If you constantly use your claws for 15 years you will get used to using your claws more.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Based on what exactly?Wolverine went into clawless melee combat with Domina (who owned the entire group of x-men) and owned her - she couldn't even hit him.
....and how good are the rest of the Xmen at MA?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine without his claws is a great fighter, arguing otherwise is insanity. Did you know he rarely even used his claws prior to Weapon X? For most of his career (much longer than Caps) he relied on conventional weaponry - guns, knifes and his fists - the reliance on his claws is a relatively new development in Wolverine's long history.
Hes been using his claws for along time now......
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When Cap first met Wolverine, he wasn't even using his claws and he still saved Cap's ass.You are seriously selling Wolverine short.
He was at the beginning of his career. Cap had to start somewhere dont use that excuse again.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah but you are forgetting that all that is apparently overridden by Wolverine not WTF pawning the Punisher. 🙄
Yeah I could say that especially when he has a better track record against Daredevil. Wolverine had trouble beating DD and he had help. I dont bother telling me that he beat DD in 3 panels because DD was distracted and jinzin has used this argument as to why Silver Samurai go an advantage over Wolverine.
Ok lets have a look at other examples:
Had trouble taking down an injured Punisher
Beaten by Punisher.
Humiliated by Molly Hayes
Punked by Moon Knight
Had trouble beating DD and he had backup from hand ninjas
Got punked by Black Panther (scond tier apparently) because he was too slow
On another ocassion BP was embarrasing Wolverine but Wolverine manged to beat him because BP wasn't taking the fight serioulsy
Shingen was kicking his ass. Wolverines adamantuim and Hf saved him.
In his 4 Part series he mentioned on numerous ocassions that his Hf and adamantuim saved his life
Got taken out by hand ninjas.
Originally posted by jinzinWhen he got the advantage over DD? Without Claws.
Over Shang Chi? Without Claws til the very end.
Over Ogun the first time? Without claws.
Held off stick? Without claws.
Stood up to the Administrator longer than DP and Shatterstar combined? Without claws.
Went toe to toe with Sabes holding his own for some time? Without claws.
Same with Cyber: Without claws.
Got an advantage over Deadpool in Origins? Without claws, (OR an intent to win for that matter).
Curbed Bucky? Without claws.
Did it again? Without claws.
Railed through Yukio? Without claws.
Manhandled Crusher Creel? Without claws.
Was jacking Lady Deathstrike up immediately after having his Ada pulled out? Without claws.
Punished Warpath? Without claws.
Dominated Domina? Without claws.
Knocked Rogue through a loop? Without claws.
KO'd roughouse? Without claws.Taught Kitty Pride, Storm, Jubes, Generation X, Black Widow, and a wealth of other X-men how to fight using martial arts... WITHOUT CLAWS OBVIOUSLY... 😐
Were you get off stating that he's a washout without them is so clearly outside of the scope of reality that I can't even believe you seriously said that.
Wolverine is a good fighter without his claws but the list doesnt prove that hes better than most of the list without claws. It would help if he didn't get embarrased by second tier and third tier fighters.
Stop using DD as an examples he was distracted. Oh yeah Crossbones wasn't really trying to fight back when he encountered Wolverine. Theres no way hes going to beat Wolverine and then DD then get past SHIELD, Tony Starks and his henchmen. 😬
Also even without claws his fists can be like adamantuim knuckledusters.