Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes.
Prove it?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I just said that. .
Oops.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's been shown on panel that Wolverine constantly trains. It is what he does - he lives and breaths combat, and he trains constantly. Captain America trains, but not to the extent Wolverine does. Logan runs the hell out of the Danger-room. He runs through simulations of himself vs. Magneto for hours, and hours on end. He trains himself. He trains the X-Men. He trains the students. When he isn't fighting or drinking (which usually leads to a fight), or on his way to a fight, he trains. .[/B
[QUOTE=10742312]Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]Er that proves that he trains alot that doesn't prove constantly. Hes been shown on numerous ocassions hanging out in bars so that shows he frequently takes a break from training.
Its actually been stated that Cap trains constantly and Cap doesnt really have a life.
[QUOTE=10742312]Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]
Based on what?I haven't done life drawing (aside from maybe half a dozen instances) in years, but I guarantee you that if I left my house right now and went to a figure drawing class, not only would my gestures not have lost any of their former glory but they in all likeliness be much better then what I was drawing years ago. Fifteen years is nothing, absolutely nothing to a man who is more than 120 years old, hasn't aged since WW2 and who's mind has addled. It is like Iron Fist taking a week long sabbatical by comparison... except Wolverine still uses his fights a lot anyway.
Well im gonna have to take your word for it and your word doesnt mean a thing to me. Especially when you come out with stuff like Wolverine rolled with a punch despite the fact his mouth was on the other side of his face. You also think its funny to make racist jokes....so if you're gonna tell me aboout what you personally experience im going to take it with a heavy pinch of salt. So unless you can come up with something better than what you persoanlly experience im going to ignore it.
As far as im concerned if you use claws 90 percent of the time for 10 or 15 years you will lose some of your H2H. Im pretty goddman sure people can think of examples were they have lacked in skills because they didnt practice enough.....but im supposed to take your word for it.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Irrelevant.She destroyed the X-Men. She walked all over them, she was shrugging of blows from Colossus... and Wolverine shows up and works her over with out even using his claws. She was vastly superhuman.
Ok fair enough. I'll give you that your not clinching this with just that feat alone.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]
10-15 years comic time isn't that long for a 120 year old man; and he has been using his fists in conjunction with his claws in equal measures for all that time anyway.]
1. Irrelevant. He maybe 120 but 15 years is still enough time to get used to using his claws.
2. Stop exaggerating his uses his claws 90 percent of the time but im pretty sure you could cherry pick examples of him using his fists.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine was mind controlled when he "fought" Daredevil in EotS. He was trying to resist the mind control by his own admission.
Yeah and Wolverine said that his HF had reduced according to jinzin that doesnt prove anything because he hadnt actually ssutained any damage. So Wolverine saying that he was resisting is not enough evidence
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Going after Daredevil in the first place was nothing more than an distraction to lure out Elektra... [/b ]
WRONG! Gorgon said that Wolverine may or may not have mudered Daredevil. So killling DD was part of his orders.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]
Tell me champ, was Daredevil as distracted as Wolverine was when he got blindsided by out of the blue by another superhero? 🙄 [/b ]
What?
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
[B]
Daredevil is a professional, a professional with intimate knowledge of Mary... how surprised do you think Matt was (and as a lawyer one imagines he has a knowledge of mental illnesses) to find out that a someone with DID, developed a new personality? Shocking right? 🙄He attacked Wolverine. They grappled. Matt kicked at Logan. Wolverine avoided it. Daredevil was put in a full nelson.
Stop twisting things around Daredevil was clearly suprised he said 'What???'
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
... and don't you think being mind controlled, having several voices in your head telling you what to do while you are trying to resist them and fight at the same time is [b]a much bigger distraction then finding out someone with DID has developed a new personality? Like a much, much bigger distraction? .[/b]
He didnt have several voices in his head that was just internal dialogue representing the two sides of his personality (mindcontrolled, non mindcontrolled). You havent proven that he was trying to resist mindcontrol.
Originally posted by srankmissingninPIS.
Prove it. Punishers evded a suprise attack from Captain America and beaten DD why would it be PIS?
Originally posted by srankmissingninWhen they teamed up and Punisher decided to attack him afterwards?
.
What?
Originally posted by srankmissingninWolverine let a little girl punch him... nice example. Maybe he should have killed her?.
Please use common sense...he could have dodged.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin🙄
In a massive superhero free for all during Infinity Crusade, he managed to hit Wolverine once... Awesome? 🙄
The point is Wolverine had the advantage and STILL got humilated.
Originally posted by srankmissingninAlready addressed this.
No you didn't.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
🙄He managed to toss Wolverine? Big deal. Wolverine's done that to the freaken Mandarin. By your logic Wolverine is faster than the Mandarin. Are you saying Wolverine is faster and more skilled then that Mandarin? 😕 .
Wolverine has been embarrased by third tiers and second tiers on numerous ocassions clearly you are exaggerating how much benefit that Wolverine gains from his experience.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Embarrassing? Black Panther dodged one attack then he tried to hide rather than fight fight Wolverine. When he realised Wolverine had supper human senses, he attacked him... and was quickly taken down.
.
No he dodged more than one attack....BP wasn't taking the fight seriously.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
... and since you love the "distracted" argument so much, Wolverine actually WAS distracted in his fight. BP only managed to get away because Wolverine was distracted by the Thing (by BP's own admittance)..
Lol stop twsiting things around. BP wsnt taking the fight serioulsy when he found out Wolverine wasnt messing it was too late. Actually thats an excuse jinzin uses alot obvoulsy you're not paying attention.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And tell me, how well did Shingen managed to do the last time he fought Wolverine? Wolverine wreaked him.
Maybe you'd like to post the scans of the fight. Did Wolverines HF help him at all? 👆
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When ?
4-part series. Wolverine got Koed by poisoned shurkkiens. He also admitted that on another ocassion his bones stopped him from getting killed by some hand ninjas. Hell Punsiher recently embarassed some hand ninjas...I guess its impossible for him to do well against him.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I guess I don't need to address this since I just tore you list of examples apart?
Srank if you shat on a piece of a paper and scanned it you would think thats a good example of you tearing an argument apart. You constantly pat yourself on the back for doing rubbish.
Hell heres another example of you twisting things around.....based on this scan...
http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11qo4.jpg
Your response.....
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Or it could be that his shirt was the only that gut cut because, you know, it was glancing blow? I mean, Wonder Man looks pretty dead set on not getting stabbed here... if he couldn't be pierced, why put up such a struggle?
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3595/82069482mg1.th.jpg
😬 How the hell did you assume he was dead set on not getting hit when he was pissed off and why did you assume it was a glancing blow.......tttttttterrible.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He didn't try and fight back because he was unconcious. He shot Wolverine. Wolverine punched him. Once. Without his claws. Crossbones was koyed.
Even if that was the case your not clinching it with that example. I think it was incorrect to say that he didn't try to fight back but he clearly couldn't careless wether he lived or died. I think he damn well knew that unloading that gun into Wolverine wouldnt have done a damn thing and he was in a hopless situation hes not getting past DD or Wolverine or getting out of that place.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Not really. The premise of knuckle dusters is that the force of the blow is applied to a much smaller surface area, the fact they are made out of metal has little to do with the damage they dole out... in fact a lot of them are made out of hard plastics. Any additional damage to Wolverine's punches from adamantium would be a result of him weighting more and have more weight behind his punches. Hardness of his bones wouldn't make much a difference,
Well they're not made out of rubber are they????? Man you really love to twist things around. Right so hard plastic knuckledusters weight alot do they???? Jesus Christ!
Lol, "Wolverine goes to bars he MUST NOT train as much as Cap, I mean all those times that Cap's showing up for public appearances, that isn't him it's just some actor posing as Cap, so he can train cause he doesn't have a life, not like he helps lead the avengers, Teams up with Falcon, or is basically on-call for the president at a whim...."
"Wolverine saying he's fighting mind control after trying is totally the same as Wolverine saying his HF is reduced before he has a chance to use it when someone told him it might be... totally."
"Daredevil was soooo way surprised! I mean, the guy said what.. WHAT for god sakes, Wolverine being divebombed by Matt from several stories up is nothin in comparison... he said WHAT!"
"Please use common sense, Wolverine was being screamed at by a little girl, the man should have been ready for a fight.. with a little girl.... with the Avengers there.... in a church..... That's totally a display of how crappy his fighting skills are.."
Re: Wolverine H2H Gauntlet
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine gets stripped of his adamantuim and his HF. He doesn't have time to adjust, how well does he do? None of his opponents have any weapons except Shingen.1. Bullseye
2. Punisher
3. Shang Chi
4. Iron Fist (without chi)
5. Elecktra
6. Daredevil
7. Captain America
8. Shingen with sword
Stops at 5 and if he doesn't, he definitely stops at 7.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Prove it?
Wolverine is more likely to take Cap down then vica versa? 😕
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well im gonna have to take your word for it and your word doesnt mean a thing to me. Especially when you come out with stuff like Wolverine rolled with a punch despite the fact his mouth was on the other side of his face. You also think its funny to make racist jokes....so if you're gonna tell me aboout what you personally experience im going to take it with a heavy pinch of salt. So unless you can come up with something better than what you persoanlly experience im going to ignore it.
He did roll with the punch. That's why he didn't take any knock back an Blade was pinned in the next panel.
I think you are confused (not totally out of character for you) about what you have issue with. I think you are mad that I said that it is possible that Wolverine wasn't even hit at all (which it is), not that that he rolled with the momentum... as any skilled fighter would.
Spin around really fast. Video tap it. Watch said tape in super slow motion. Your face will look like that. Physics.
Racist jokes? 😕
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. Irrelevant. He maybe 120 but 15 years is still enough time to get used to using his claws.
2. Stop exaggerating his uses his claws 90 percent of the time but im pretty sure you could cherry pick examples of him using his fists.
In your opinion 10 - 15 of operating with his claws, supersedes more than 80 years of operating with out them. That doesn't make a lick of sense. 15 years is a ripple in the lake of Wolverine's life, it is no time at all relatively speaking.
Every fight against someone without a healing factor? Wolverine uses his fists all the time in conjunction with his healing factor.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and Wolverine said that his HF had reduced according to jinzin that doesnt prove anything because he hadnt actually ssutained any damage. So Wolverine saying that he was resisting is not enough evidence
Can't really comment on this since I don't know the incident you where talking about. Wolverine's healing factor is in a slump a lot, and I tend to believe jinzin over you.
Did you even read EotS? He had multiple personalities in his head, several different voices of narration (white, tan, and green)... that where arguing with each other. Wolverine was trying to resist the mind control, he was trying to resist the moment he was activated inside SHIELD's Helicarrier. He even stopped what he was doing to save a woman who was being rapped. How can you possibly argue he wasn't trying to resist the mind control? That's absurd.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
WRONG! Gorgon said that Wolverine may or may not have mudered Daredevil. So killling DD was part of his orders.
Exactly. He said he may or may not kill him because it was up to Wolverine's discretion. The plan was to draw Elektra into the open and distract Daredevil while Gorgon took her down. Daredevil was nothing more than a distraction, whether or not Wolverine brought him down didn't matter. It wasn't his mission to do it... but I can't imagine Hydra would have carried either way.
If Wolverine was intent on killing Matt, don't you think he would have done it? He had him dead to rights when he first stormed Matt's apartment, but talked with him instead of popping his claws. Now why would he do this? Because he was waiting for Elektra to show up. Matt didn't matter.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What?
I'm asking you if you think it is more surprising / distracting to find out that someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder has developed a new personality (I know, shocking right? 🙄), or to get completely blinded sided by a diveboming vigilante?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stop twisting things around Daredevil was clearly suprised he said 'What???'
😱
ZOMG! He said "What???" My mistake, he WAS distracted!!!! 🙄
How many times did you say "what" in this post I am quoting? I'm I to take you saying "what" as a sign that my amazing debating skills have spun your little brain for a loop and completely dumbfounded you? And all your responses after that have keen typed in the haste of a shocked mind?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Prove it. Punishers evded a suprise attack from Captain America and beaten DD why would it be PIS?
He's also been humiliated by Daredevil and admitted that he can't even beat Bucky. If I really need to explain to you why Punisher hanging with Wolverine is PIS, then a honestly suggest you go get a CAT scan.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What?
...
Pretty straight forward sentence... not sure what has confused you.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Please use common sense...he could have dodged.
...
...
...
Why? Have you ever been around a child? They throw tantrums. They hit people. Why bother to evade the bunch of a little girl? Wolverine didn't know she had superstrength. Do you think Wolverine is concerned with the potential damage output of an 11 year old girl to bother dodging it?
Please use common sense?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point is Wolverine had the advantage and STILL got humilated.
He hit Moonknight once. Moonknight hit him once. Not exactly humiliation...
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No you didn't.
Yes I did... and you responded to... and here we are now...
What's wrong with you?
CAT scan please.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine has been embarrased by third tiers and second tiers on numerous ocassions clearly you are exaggerating how much benefit that Wolverine gains from his experience.
So far we have this.
Wolverine let an 11 year old girl punch him...
Wolverine was hit once by Moonknight... then went on to fight other people since he was in a massive free for all.
Black Panther managed to toss him...
Nothing particularly embarrassing there.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No he dodged more than one attack....BP wasn't taking the fight seriously.
Black dodged one attack. Went into hiding. Realised Wolverine could locate him. Attacked Wolverine. Got pinned.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lol stop twsiting things around. BP wsnt taking the fight serioulsy when he found out Wolverine wasnt messing it was too late. Actually thats an excuse jinzin uses alot obvoulsy you're not paying attention.
Black Panther knew that Wolverine wasn't messing around right after he dodged the first attack and went into hiding. It was only after this that he attacked Wolverine. He only managed to walk away because Wolverine got distracted by Grimm.
Are you talking about jinzin's theory that Wolverine's healing factor's speed has a direct correlation with adrenaline, that being why cheap shots have more effect than punches sustained in the heat of battle?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Maybe you'd like to post the scans of the fight. Did Wolverines HF help him at all? 👆
Nope. Wolverine took a single hit right before he "killed" Shingen. It was a none lethal blow, Shingen's sword hit him in the eye. Pretty impressive considering that Shingen's lacky (the Silver Samurai) has managed to two shot Spider-man.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
4-part series. Wolverine got Koed by poisoned shurkkiens. He also admitted that on another ocassion his bones stopped him from getting killed by some hand ninjas. Hell Punsiher recently embarassed some hand ninjas...I guess its impossible for him to do well against him.
Everyone has embarassed the Hand. They are fodder, it is the sole reason the exisit.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Srank if you shat on a piece of a paper and scanned it you would think thats a good example of you tearing an argument apart. You constantly pat yourself on the back for doing rubbish.
🙄
I've responded to your post, and what was you counter post? Nothing. You ignored everything I said and posted your original post again worded differently. You are a joke and you are grasping at straws.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11qo4.jpgYour response.....
😬 How the hell did you assume he was dead set on not getting hit when he was pissed off and why did you assume it was a glancing blow.......tttttttterrible.
🙄
Nice job digging that up. /golfclap
... Now how about you show the page before that scan - you know - the one I was actually talking about?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if that was the case your not clinching it with that example. I think it was incorrect to say that he didn't try to fight back but he clearly couldn't careless Whether he lived or died. I think he damn well knew that unloading that gun into Wolverine wouldnt have done a damn thing and he was in a hopless situation hes not getting past DD or Wolverine or getting out of that place.
He got one shotted. Whether or not he intended to fight back is irrelevant, that ship sailed when he was knocked out with a single punch.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well they're not made out of rubber are they????? Man you really love to twist things around. Right so hard plastic knuckledusters weight alot do they???? Jesus Christ!
*sigh*
Once again. The damage of the knuckle duster comes from the fact that the force of the blow is now applied through a much smaller surface area. The same principle as poking someone with a sharpened pencil and poke someone with a broom handle. The hardness of the material only matters if there is give in it and it absorbs the impact and
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Can't really comment on this since I don't know the incident you where talking about. Wolverine's healing factor is in a slump a lot, and I tend to believe jinzin over you.Did you even read EotS? He had multiple personalities in his head, several different voices of narration (white, tan, and green)... that where arguing with each other. Wolverine was trying to resist the mind control, he was trying to resist the moment he was activated inside SHIELD's Helicarrier. He even stopped what he was doing to save a woman who was being rapped. How can you possibly argue he wasn't trying to resist the mind control? That's absurd.
He's trying to confuse you.
He tried to state that Wolverine's HF was depleted to pre-Fatal Attractions levels because Wolverine said "Healing factor ain't what it's been in years" in Wolverine 62 (or was it 61?).
When I brought to his attention that Logan's comment didn't have any validity behind it and was just based on what Azrael told him MIGHT happen because he stated that before he even took any damage hence before he had to heal it. Zone conceded to the argument but here, Zone, took that and then saw you arguing for Wolverine being brainwashed in EOTS and fighting it. He then concluded that since Wolverine said that his healing factor was weaker than it has actually been in recent months, that Wolverine also has no credability to say he was fighting mind control. He fails to see the difference between a supposition based on what someone else tells you, and a factual statement made AFTER already trying to do something. 😬
It takes a while but I think I'm almost fluent in Alfheim. 🙁
Originally posted by Creshosk
Jesus christ is right.. your arguments are getting sadder and sadder...
That's not even the worst of it. Not only are his arguments getting dumber, they're getting longer too. 😘
I do find it amusing though. When it comes to Wolverine's defense, Battlehammer, Srank or myself he never "takes our word for it"... Even though we have scans, issue numbers or links of some sort to support our arguments 95% of the time. Even when he SEES the evidence he still robs it of any and all benefits of the doubt. "Well, that doesn't prove anything blah blah blah.."
But when he hears about Logan's HF being reduced.
Or thinks he sees Wolverine being taken down by a hail of bullets.
Or knew a guy who knew a guy who knows a guy who has a comic where Wolverine gets "beat" by someone like the Bushman or something, all the sudden we're finding ourselves having to outline half the 616 MU just to get him to shut up.
Even goofier is that he only does this with Wolverine and Wolverine related characters...
For instance:
Sabes vs. Conan
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
One dead Conan coming right up! Conan is so dead its unbelievable. The guy dies probably in several seconds or Sabre decides to take his time...........ouch.*blocks out screams of pain*
Originally posted by Marvelknight
It's kinda hard, I'll have to go with Conan. I've seen him put down a dragon before. And he has a little over peak human strength. This man take on armies by him self; and like Sabretooth while engage in battle. Conan is very blood lusted and he also has a "berserker rage" that increases strength and it makes him resistance to pain.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ermmm wow. This is gonna be tough.
😂
Originally posted by jinzinHe's working on an oversimplification. Where by wolverine has no credibility in what he says. given his history with the character I'd say its intentional. He really doesn't seem to like wolverine and won't give him the slightest win *points to the hand ninja thing*
He's trying to confuse you.
He tried to state that Wolverine's HF was depleted to pre-Fatal Attractions levels because Wolverine said "Healing factor ain't what it's been in years" in Wolverine 62 (or was it 61?).
When I brought to his attention that Logan's comment didn't have any validity behind it and was just based on what Azrael told him MIGHT happen because he stated that before he even took any damage hence before he had to heal it. Zone conceded to the argument but here, Zone, took that and then saw you arguing for Wolverine being brainwashed in EOTS and fighting it. He then concluded that since Wolverine said that his healing factor was weaker than it has actually been in recent months, that Wolverine also has no credability to say he was fighting mind control. He fails to see the difference between a supposition based on what someone else tells you, and a factual statement made AFTER already trying to do something. 😬It takes a while but I think I'm almost fluent in Alfheim. 🙁
But yeah he doesn't get or is intentionally ignoring the difference between Wolverine trusting a "maybe" from another person, and a defintly from ones own first hand experience.
"If wolverine says it, it must be false."
Because you know, Alf loves to ignore context. which is of course strawman, red herring over simplificaton and a whole boatload of other logic rules violations... but eh, whatever helps his guy win I guess.
Wolverine probably knows more styles than Iron Fist and probably is a better fighting tactician and perhaps better at improvising with his styles. It's possible that he's a better fighter, but he doesn't overmatch Iron Fist. No way. Iron Fist... boy. He's gotten better. Much, much better. Hard to say where he fits in since his fighting has been regulated to HYDRA goons, the Immortal Weapons and a speeding train. He did get one-shotted by Hiroim the Old-Strong. But that's hardly a low feat...
