Originally posted by Battlehammer
..he was in the shadows and he mimic capt skills........
So what? Do they know Cap intimately? He also made some people think he was beat as well. Dont mean a goddamn thing because none of those people know Cap or Beast well enough to know the difference.
You also said it yourself he was in the shadows.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So what? Do they know Cap intimately? He also made some people think he was beat as well. Dont mean a goddamn thing because none of those people know Cap or Beast well enough to know the difference.You also said it yourself he was in the shadows.
the people that said wolverine was beast were not people who studied beast and they assumed so due to agility..........
are you really going to simply ignore such feat?
yea and? how does the shadows take away from the feat? They know what wolverine and capt look like.............if they saw him they would no right away he aint capt. He mimic capt fighting style to the point were individuals trained to know capt thought he was capt.............
Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully they know capt amazingly well. They have studied his style and combat skills. It quite impressive for wolverine to make them believe he fighting capt with only a trash can lid............
That is simply because he threw a trashcan lid with accuracy. I think anybody would think that it was probably Cap.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
the people that said wolverine was beast were not people who studied beast and they assumed so due to agility
Actually they just said some blue guy was jumping around. This other guy assumes it was beast because people described himas being blue and being agile.
Originally posted by Battlehammerare you really going to simply ignore such feat?
yea and? how does the shadows take away from the feat? They know what wolverine and capt look like.............if they saw him they would no right away he aint capt. He mimic capt fighting style to the point were individuals trained to know capt thought he was capt.............
Er you are exaggerting. Look at the scan again.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1253/wolvieiscapgp1.jpg
Hell they thought he was Cap even before he started fighting. Why? They thought he was carrying a shield, they added 1 and 1 together and got 3. His skill at throwing the lid is impressive as well but thet doesn't mean hes analysed Caps style to a T. Hell im pretty sure there are lots of street levelrs that could throw Caps shield with moderate accuracy.
If they know so much about Cap how comes they didn't know he shrunk in size?
Originally posted by srankmissingninwhy do you belive that wolverine will do do well when he obviously wont?
Is this a gauntlet or does is he at %100 at each fight?If he is at 100% for each match -
1. Bullseye - Wolverine wins
2. Punisher - Wolverine wins
3. Shang Chi - (With out Chi) Wolverine wins / (With Chi) Shang wins
4. Iron Fist (without chi) - Wolverine wins
5. Elecktra - Elecktra wins
6. Daredevil - Wolverine wins
7. Captain America - Cap gets the slight majority
8. Shingen with sword - Shingen wins
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wait Wolverine with no claws but with HF owns Cap?
Yes.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Physically, they are virtually mirror images of each other.
Skillwise, they are virtually mirror images of each other - and any evidence supporting one of them being Superior leans towards Wolverine.
I just said that.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I bet you're not going to prove that. Its been said on panel that Cap trains constantly. Wolverine ddoes train but he also hangs out in bars. Cap doesn't have much of a life outside training.
It's been shown on panel that Wolverine constantly trains. It is what he does - he lives and breaths combat, and he trains constantly. Captain America trains, but not to the extent Wolverine does. Logan runs the hell out of the Danger-room. He runs through simulations of himself vs. Magneto for hours, and hours on end. He trains himself. He trains the X-Men. He trains the students. When he isn't fighting or drinking (which usually leads to a fight), or on his way to a fight, he trains.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If you constantly use your claws for 15 years you will get used to using your claws more.
Based on what?
I haven't done life drawing (aside from maybe half a dozen instances) in years, but I guarantee you that if I left my house right now and went to a figure drawing class, not only would my gestures not have lost any of their former glory but they in all likeliness be much better then what I was drawing years ago. Fifteen years is nothing, absolutely nothing to a man who is more than 120 years old, hasn't aged since WW2 and who's mind has addled. It is like Iron Fist taking a week long sabbatical by comparison... except Wolverine still uses his fights a lot anyway.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
....and how good are the rest of the Xmen at MA?
Irrelevant.
She destroyed the X-Men. She walked all over them, she was shrugging of blows from Colossus... and Wolverine shows up and works her over with out even using his claws. She was vastly superhuman.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes been using his claws for along time now......
10-15 years comic time isn't that long for a 120 year old man; and he has been using his fists in conjunction with his claws in equal measures for all that time anyway.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah I could say that especially when he has a better track record against Daredevil. Wolverine had trouble beating DD and he had help. I dont bother telling me that he beat DD in 3 panels because DD was distracted and jinzin has used this argument as to why Silver Samurai go an advantage over Wolverine.
Wolverine was mind controlled when he "fought" Daredevil in EotS. He was trying to resist the mind control by his own admission. Going after Daredevil in the first place was nothing more than an distraction to lure out Elektra...
Tell me champ, was Daredevil as distracted as Wolverine was when he got blindsided by out of the blue by another superhero? 🙄
Daredevil is a professional, a professional with intimate knowledge of Mary... how surprised do you think Matt was (and as a lawyer one imagines he has a knowledge of mental illnesses) to find out that a someone with DID, developed a new personality? Shocking right? 🙄
He attacked Wolverine. They grappled. Matt kicked at Logan. Wolverine avoided it. Daredevil was put in a full nelson.
... and don't you think being mind controlled, having several voices in your head telling you what to do while you are trying to resist them and fight at the same time is a much bigger distraction then finding out someone with DID has developed a new personality? Like a much, much bigger distraction?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok lets have a look at other examples:
This should be fun.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Had trouble taking down an injured Punisher
PIS
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Beaten by Punisher.
When they teamed up and Punisher decided to attack him afterwards?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Humiliated by Molly Hayes
Wolverine let a little girl punch him... nice example. Maybe he should have killed her?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Punked by Moon Knight
🙄
In a massive superhero free for all during Infinity Crusade, he managed to hit Wolverine once... Awesome? 🙄
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Had trouble beating DD and he had backup from hand ninjas
Already addressed this.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Got punked by Black Panther (scond tier apparently) because he was too slow
🙄
He managed to toss Wolverine? Big deal. Wolverine's done that to the freaken Mandarin. By your logic Wolverine is faster than the Mandarin. Are you saying Wolverine is faster and more skilled then that Mandarin? 😕
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
On another ocassion BP was Embarrassing Wolverine but Wolverine manged to beat him because BP wasn't taking the fight serioulsy
Embarrassing? Black Panther dodged one attack then he tried to hide rather than fight fight Wolverine. When he realised Wolverine had supper human senses, he attacked him... and was quickly taken down.
... and since you love the "distracted" argument so much, Wolverine actually WAS distracted in his fight. BP only managed to get away because Wolverine was distracted by the Thing (by BP's own admittance).
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Shingen was kicking his ass. Wolverines adamantuim and Hf saved him.
And tell me, how well did Shingen managed to do the last time he fought Wolverine? Wolverine wreaked him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Got taken out by hand ninjas.
When?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine is a good fighter without his claws but the list doesnt prove that hes better than most of the list without claws. It would help if he didn't get embarrased by second tier and third tier fighters.
I guess I don't need to address this since I just tore you list of examples apart?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stop using DD as an examples he was distracted. Oh yeah Crossbones wasn't really trying to fight back when he encountered Wolverine. Theres no way hes going to beat Wolverine and then DD then get past SHIELD, Tony Starks and his henchmen.
He didn't try and fight back because he was unconcious. He shot Wolverine. Wolverine punched him. Once. Without his claws. Crossbones was koyed.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Also even without claws his fists can be like adamantuim knuckledusters.
Not really. The premise of knuckle dusters is that the force of the blow is applied to a much smaller surface area, the fact they are made out of metal has little to do with the damage they dole out... in fact a lot of them are made out of hard plastics. Any additional damage to Wolverine's punches from adamantium would be a result of him weighting more and have more weight behind his punches. Hardness of his bones wouldn't make much a difference,
Originally posted by srankmissingninThis twisted wretched place shadowed by the utmost darks of hell
Yes.I just said that.
It's been shown on panel that Wolverine constantly trains. It is what he does - he lives and breaths combat, and he trains constantly. Captain America trains, but not to the extent Wolverine does. Logan runs the hell out of the Danger-room. He runs through simulations of himself vs. Magneto for hours, and hours on end. He trains himself. He trains the X-Men. He trains the students. When he isn't fighting or drinking (which usually leads to a fight), or on his way to a fight, he trains.
Based on what?
I haven't done life drawing (aside from maybe half a dozen instances) in years, but I guarantee you that if I left my house right now and went to a figure drawing class, not only would my gestures not have lost any of their former glory but they in all likeliness be much better then what I was drawing years ago. Fifteen years is nothing, absolutely nothing to a man who is more than 120 years old, hasn't aged since WW2 and who's mind has addled. It is like Iron Fist taking a week long sabbatical by comparison... except Wolverine still uses his fights a lot anyway.
Irrelevant.
She destroyed the X-Men. She walked all over them, she was shrugging of blows from Colossus... and Wolverine shows up and works her over with out even using his claws. She was vastly superhuman.
10-15 years comic time isn't that long for a 120 year old man; and he has been using his fists in conjunction with his claws in equal measures for all that time anyway.
Wolverine was mind controlled when he "fought" Daredevil in EotS. He was trying to resist the mind control by his own admission. Going after Daredevil in the first place was nothing more than an distraction to lure out Elektra...
Tell me champ, was Daredevil as distracted as Wolverine was when he got blindsided by out of the blue by another superhero? 🙄
Daredevil is a professional, a professional with intimate knowledge of Mary... how surprised do you think Matt was (and as a lawyer one imagines he has a knowledge of mental illnesses) to find out that a someone with DID, developed a new personality? Shocking right? 🙄
He attacked Wolverine. They grappled. Matt kicked at Logan. Wolverine avoided it. Daredevil was put in a full nelson.
... and don't you think being mind controlled, having several voices in your head telling you what to do while you are trying to resist them and fight at the same time is [b]a much bigger distraction then finding out someone with DID has developed a new personality
? Like a much, much bigger distraction?This should be fun.
PIS
When they teamed up and Punisher decided to attack him afterwards?
Wolverine let a little girl punch him... nice example. Maybe he should have killed her?
🙄
In a massive superhero free for all during Infinity Crusade, he managed to hit Wolverine once... Awesome? 🙄
Already addressed this.
🙄
He managed to toss Wolverine? Big deal. Wolverine's done that to the freaken Mandarin. By your logic Wolverine is faster than the Mandarin. Are you saying Wolverine is faster and more skilled then that Mandarin? 😕
Embarrassing? Black Panther dodged one attack then he tried to hide rather than fight fight Wolverine. When he realised Wolverine had supper human senses, he attacked him... and was quickly taken down.
... and since you love the "distracted" argument so much, Wolverine actually WAS distracted in his fight. BP only managed to get away because Wolverine was distracted by the Thing (by BP's own admittance).
And tell me, how well did Shingen managed to do the last time he fought Wolverine? Wolverine wreaked him.
When?
I guess I don't need to address this since I just tore you list of examples apart?
He didn't try and fight back because he was unconcious. He shot Wolverine. Wolverine punched him. Once. Without his claws. Crossbones was koyed.
Not really. The premise of knuckle dusters is that the force of the blow is applied to a much smaller surface area, the fact they are made out of metal has little to do with the damage they dole out... in fact a lot of them are made out of hard plastics. Any additional damage to Wolverine's punches from adamantium would be a result of him weighting more and have more weight behind his punches. Hardness of his bones wouldn't make much a difference, [/B]
liars line the roads at dawn watchful eyes are upon you held
sacred weapons to the sacred revealed to be unleashed upon the council of hell
blood flows down the streets at night where wolves cry out for flesh
where a horrible curse taints the woodlands nearby with the forms of the walking dead
unholy inversion of hope twisting the faith of the meek into hate
driven insane by the dark one to bring forth the foul biddings he speaks
the undead are among us at dawn they shrink back to their silken beds
they dance by night and drink the blood of a child's broken neck
his spires are growing taller still their shadows stretching throughout the land
freeing the evils that sleep within the weaker minds of man
into the tower never go the horrors multiply
gears can mince the strongest ones leaving heroes paralyzed
the rivers flow with poison the sands swallow you whole
the ghouls that roam this darkened wood are thirsting for your throat
and thats why i dont like that.
Originally posted by srankmissingninNot really. The premise of knuckle dusters is that the force of the blow is applied to a much smaller surface area, the fact they are made out of metal has little to do with the damage they dole out... in fact a lot of them are made out of hard plastics. Any additional damage to Wolverine's punches from adamantium would be a result of him weighting more and have more weight behind his punches. Hardness of his bones wouldn't make much a difference,
I don't want to be part of the argument, but I do want to add something.
Wolverine's adamantium skeleton allows him to punch freely as much as he wants because he doesn't really need to worry about destroying his knuckles while punching or destroying any other bones of his. He also doesn't really have to worry about pulling any muscles or tearing tendons while punching, thanks to his healing factor. I do recall something about your bones giving in a little when you're punching something, because of the shock of the impact, but I can't remember the specific details about that, so I guess Wolverine has that advantage too.
And, Wolverine does have some kind of super strength (Let's say max. 2 ton) and at least I believe this is due to his Adamantium skeleton which doesn't give in when doing some of the feats he's doing and I also believe it gives him some kind of leverage advantage. Not to forget about his healing factor which probably boost his muscles to a degree (Repairs the tearing caused by heavy lifting for example immediately) So does Wolverine have this "extra" strength in this gauntlet?
But IMO the Domina case was just plain PIS, Domina was supposed to have all the Powers of her clan members, including the one's who was pretty much strong/durable as Colossus. I doubt merely punching someone like Colossus would help, no matter how skilled you are.
Besides, it's not like Cap and the likes aim to kill/handicap people they fight against, on the other hand Wolverine doesn't really care about killing, hand ninjas for example.
Also, I believe Cap would take Wolvie down in this gauntlet. He has the stamina advantage and he has fought all these years without any real powers and is probably familiar with Logan's style. And if this was really a bloodlusted Cap I believe he could use some of his more exotic skills and would aim to kill Wolverine instead of knocking him out.
Originally posted by Rhinoceros
I don't want to be part of the argument, but I do want to add something.Wolverine's adamantium skeleton allows him to punch freely as much as he wants because he doesn't really need to worry about destroying his knuckles while punching or destroying any other bones of his. He also doesn't really have to worry about pulling any muscles or tearing tendons while punching, thanks to his healing factor. I do recall something about your bones giving in a little when you're punching something, because of the shock of the impact, but I can't remember the specific details about that, so I guess Wolverine has that advantage too.
this is comics, not real life. I don't ever remember someone holding back a punch because they worried about injuring their bones. Don't apply real life anatomy to comics.
I've seen regular humans in comics being thrown through walls without a single fracture, whereas in reallife if someone was thrown at a wall with tremendous force, the wall would be unaffected and the person would be dead.
Originally posted by Starscream M
this is comics, not real life. I don't ever remember someone holding back a punch because they worried about injuring their bones. Don't apply real life anatomy to comics.I've seen regular humans in comics being thrown through walls without a single fracture, whereas in reallife if someone was thrown at a wall with tremendous force, the wall would be unaffected and the person would be dead.
Actually it's called "common sense" and people pull their punches all the time in the comics, and it's not like we know if people punch as hard as they can in comics, it's never stated. I believe comic characters don't use all of their might to punch as it could possibly hinder their technique and they could cause damage to themselves. People who haven't had martial arts training usually hurt their hands when punching HARD, Spider-man for example (He hit Morlun with all he had and in the end he broke his arm[s?])
Got a point there though, these are the guys who heal back from a skeleton and have super powers.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine is a good fighter without his claws but the list doesnt prove that hes better than most of the list without claws. It would help if he didn't get embarrased by second tier and third tier fighters.Stop using DD as an examples he was distracted. Oh yeah Crossbones wasn't really trying to fight back when he encountered Wolverine. Theres no way hes going to beat Wolverine and then DD then get past SHIELD, Tony Starks and his henchmen. 😬
Also even without claws his fists can be like adamantuim knuckledusters.
What was I thinking? Wolverine beating top tier fighters without his claws, high ranking fighters without his claws, and superpowered tanks without his claws proves NOTHING of his skill, nothing at all and Marvel doesn't know what the hell they're talking about when they say he's one of Marvels best h2h fighters, or when Cable does, or Cap compliments his skill, or Zaran does, or ANY of the X-Men, OR their files, or government files from SHIELD or from Weapon X, anyone who says he's more than an overglorified streetbrawler is full of total CRAP! Hell, Marvel shouldn't even put him at a level 7, the guy should be more like two, I mean c'mon Moonkight shoulder threw him so he MUST suck....
And we all know that DD has NO discipline when he gets into fights either, and all those representations of him in comics carrying on conversations, coming up with plans, communicating with allies while fighting multiple enemies and attributing his ability to multitask to his skill and radar sense are just nonsense. We all know he has worse A.D.D. than an art teacher. NO WAY that would even happen to him in a real fight, in a REAL FIGHT Daredevil would judp chop Wolverine in the throat once and down he'd go! Wolverine's a chump with zero skill anything and anyone... everything and everyone that says different.. CRAP!
Molly Hayes punching Wolverine out the door when he insults her is TOTALLY a portrayal of his lack of skill.. and his feats of skill? PIS!
🙄
Originally posted by RhinocerosAlso, I believe Cap would take Wolvie down in this gauntlet. He has the stamina advantage and he has fought all these years without any real powers and is probably familiar with Logan's style. And if this was really a bloodlusted Cap I believe he could use some of his more exotic skills and would aim to kill Wolverine instead of knocking him out.
for one capt does not have superior stamina. His stamina is inferior.
second logan would be just as familiar if not more so with capt style.
third logan knows far more styles and has far greater range of exotic skills.
Originally posted by carnage52
ive seen them live you need to see them live to get a taste of what there all about.who would you say is the best deathmetal band then?except for the obvious ones like death and morbid angel.
I saw part of one of their sets in - maybe - Burlington.
I don't know maybe Job for a Cowboy or Darkest Hour on the melodic deathmetal side. The Haunted are pretty sweet too.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Not really. The premise of knuckle dusters is that the force of the blow is applied to a much smaller surface area, the fact they are made out of metal has little to do with the damage they dole out... in fact a lot of them are made out of hard plastics. Any additional damage to Wolverine's punches from adamantium would be a result of him weighting more and have more weight behind his punches. Hardness of his bones wouldn't make much a difference,
the harder the surface the more it hurts if you apply the same amount of force. Just like one person can punch you in the rib and it just hurt alot and another of equal size and weight can break it.
Originally posted by srankmissingninagreed about the haunted but job got booed off when they where supporting megadeth they just cant play live.
I saw part of one of their sets in - maybe - Burlington.I don't know maybe Job for a Cowboy or Darkest Hour on the melodic deathmetal side. The Haunted are pretty sweet too.
Originally posted by jalek moye
hardness of bones actual makes a huge difference in strikes. for example ever been kicked in the thigh by someones shin. ever been kicked in the thigh by a guy he is constantly conditioning his shin.the harder the surface the more it hurts if you apply the same amount of force. Just like one person can punch you in the rib and it just hurt alot and another of equal size and weight can break it.
The purposes for hardening the shins is to get callouses, deaden the nerves and strengthen the bone; it is to prevent injury to your self, not increase the damage you do to others. The only damage increase would come from the added mass on the bones... which would be minuscule.
You put more power behind your blows with out fear of injury, but it won't be any more power then you could do with hardening the bones (just less risk of injury). It all comes down to technique.
