Wolverine H2H Gauntlet

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oh for pete's sake. Do I really have to talk to you like you're an idiot? Fine. Please direct yourself to the Forum Rules section and read this rule right here:

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

And I'd still like to see scans of the rest of the Junzo fight. That way we can all see for ourselves whether Junzo was stabbed in the shoulder or not.

Sorry if I'm not inclined to rush out to get scans for someone who thinks they need to be so insulting to me.

I'm an idiot, right.... and yet you failed to do anything but be a little ***** about this when I asked you what made it so invalid as evidence in the first place.
The rules also state there are exceptions, yet gives no specifications as to what they are, so it's left up to our discretion. Now if What If EOTS was ignoring common sense, or power sets on either of the characters that'd be one thing, but it wasn't. If it was giving them powers they don't have in 616 that'd be another thing, but it wasn't.
It holds far more weight in a discussion about who would win between the two than that fight did when Wolverine wasn't even a developed character yet.
It's as representative of how Wolverine would perform as Black Cat beating Sabretooth is for Sabes. 😬

We could just ignore that completely, Wolverine still has multiple feats beaten people who are unquestionably Rand's superior in skill, Ogun, Stick, or his equal in Shang Chi.

Originally posted by jinzin
Sorry if I'm not inclined to rush out to get scans for someone who thinks they need to be so insulting to me.

I'm an idiot, right.... and yet you failed to do anything but be a little ***** about this when I asked you what made it so invalid as evidence in the first place.
The rules also state there are exceptions, yet gives no specifications as to what they are, so it's left up to our discretion. Now if What If EOTS was ignoring common sense, or power sets on either of the characters that'd be one thing, but it wasn't. If it was giving them powers they don't have in 616 that'd be another thing, but it wasn't.
It holds far more weight in a discussion about who would win between the two than that fight did when Wolverine wasn't even a developed character yet.
It's as representative of how Wolverine would perform as Black Cat beating Sabretooth is for Sabes. 😬

We could just ignore that completely, Wolverine still has multiple feats beaten people who are unquestionably Rand's superior in skill, Ogun, Stick, or his equal in Shang Chi.

1. The rules state blantantly that What Ifs are not allowed.
2. Even if you're going to use it as evidence it doesnt prove that Wolverine is better at H2H he beat Cap by using his adamantuim claws.
3. The whole bloody reason why What Ifs are not allowed because sometimes characters do things they are not supposed to be able to do, for example Wolverine putting his claws through Caps shield.
4. Some people dont have a problem with non canon sources but as stated already its against the rules and posters are therefore in their right mind to reject it so stop making excuses.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes because a man who doesn't have a healing factor written into his character can shrug off things like being punched into space, on a bed covered in bandages like a mummy, and just getting to walking around before they got back to earth. 🙄

Just more nonsensical robbing of the ben of the doubt from Wolverine.

HE WASN'T A HEALING FACTOR USING CHARACTER YET... Again reading comprehension ftw.

Interestingly enough you use that excuse even now. Wolverines been incinerated to the skeleton and then taken on Janus and Namor and it hardly affected his ability to perform but everytime Wolverine gets hurt in a comic you start moaning about how his HF was depleted.

Hell it might be a good excuse this time but I don't know. Anyway I hope somebody can post what happened before. At any rate Wolverien didnt seem that bad IF wasnt in top shape either, you dont have any proof that Wolverine beating IF.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine is more likely to take Cap down then vica versa? 😕

Er pove it?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He did roll with the punch. That's why he didn't take any knock back an Blade was pinned in the next panel.

I think you are confused (not totally out of character for you) about what you have issue with. I think you are mad that I said that it is possible that Wolverine wasn't even hit at all (which it is), not that that he rolled with the momentum... as any skilled fighter would.

Spin around really fast. Video tap it. Watch said tape in super slow motion. Your face will look like that. Physics.

I cant be assed to arge with you.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Racist jokes? 😕

Forget it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

In your opinion 10 - 15 of operating with his claws, supersedes more than 80 years of operating with out them. That doesn't make a lick of sense. 15 years is a ripple in the lake of Wolverine's life, it is no time at all relatively speaking.

Yes it does, let me explain again. Wolverine may have lots of experience in other martial arts but since hes been using his claws mostly for 10-15 years its going to hinder his ability in other martial arts because obvoulsy he needs to keep training in those other martial arts to keep up his skill.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Every fight against someone without a healing factor? Wolverine uses his fists all the time in conjunction with his healing factor.

Wolverine uses his claws most of the time and its not the samething is punching.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Can't really comment on this since I don't know the incident you where talking about. Wolverine's healing factor is in a slump a lot, and I tend to believe jinzin over you.

The point is just because he said something doesnt make it true and since thats jinzins opinion you can agree with me because you agree with everything he says.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Did you even read EotS? He had multiple personalities in his head, several different voices of narration (white, tan, and green)... that where arguing with each other. Wolverine was trying to resist the mind control, he was trying to resist the moment he was activated inside SHIELD's Helicarrier. He even stopped what he was doing to save a woman who was being rapped. How can you possibly argue he wasn't trying to resist the mind control? That's absurd.

Common sense.

1. Those different boxes dont represnt voices in his head but what hes thinking
2. He was resisting mind control but there is no proof that he was resisting it when he fought DD

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Exactly. He said he may or may not kill him because it was up to Wolverine's discretion. The plan was to draw Elektra into the open and distract Daredevil while Gorgon took her down. Daredevil was nothing more than a distraction, whether or not Wolverine brought him down didn't matter. It wasn't his mission to do it... but I can't imagine Hydra would have carried either way.

If Wolverine was intent on killing Matt, don't you think he would have done it? He had him dead to rights when he first stormed Matt's apartment, but talked with him instead of popping his claws. Now why would he do this? Because he was waiting for Elektra to show up. Matt didn't matter.

Daredevil was meant to be a distraction if DD put up too much of a fight he was too be killed. Initially he put the fist to his head he obvoulsy wasnt trying to kill him, that changed when he put up resistance.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

I'm asking you if you think it is more surprising / distracting to find out that someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder has developed a new personality (I know, shocking right? 🙄), or to get completely blinded sided by a diveboming vigilante?.

Irrelevant.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

😱

ZOMG! He said "What???" My mistake, he WAS distracted!!!! 🙄

Duhhhhhh. That means he was suprised and jinzin has used that same excuse when Wolverine was fighting silver samurai. Now obvoulsy if that were Wolverine saying that and jinzin said that Wolverine was suprised you would agree with it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

How many times did you say "what" in this post I am quoting? I'm I to take you saying "what" as a sign that my amazing debating skills have spun your little brain for a loop and completely dumbfounded you? And all your responses after that have keen typed in the haste of a shocked mind?

Yeah your way too smart.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He's also been humiliated by Daredevil and admitted that he can't even beat Bucky. If I really need to explain to you why Punisher hanging with Wolverine is PIS, then a honestly suggest you go get a CAT scan.

Er when has he been humiliated by DD? There were circumstance to it if it did happen but im sure you wont listen to anything I say. Even if he has been humiliated by DD and admitted he couldnt beat Bucky that doesnt negate all his other good showings against DD, hes also beaten up Bullseyes twice.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

...

Pretty straight forward sentence... not sure what has confused you.

...

...

...

Im probably wondering what the significance of it was.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Why? Have you ever been around a child? They throw tantrums. They hit people. Why bother to evade the bunch of a little girl? Wolverine didn't know she had superstrength. Do you think Wolverine is concerned with the potential damage output of an 11 year old girl to bother dodging it?

Please use common sense?

Yes you had better use common sense. Thats why he turned up with Cap and Iron Man and thats why Wolverine stated that she was dangerous.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He hit Moonknight once. Moonknight hit him once. Not exactly humiliation...

Again.....Wolverine had the advtange over an inferior fighter he ended up looking bad. The point is that he had the advantage.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

So far we have this.

Wolverine let an 11 year old girl punch him...

Er he didn't let her punch him stop twisting things around.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Wolverine was hit once by Moonknight... then went on to fight other people since he was in a massive free for all.

he didn't hit him he threw him. Whole bloody point was that Wolverine had the advantage.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Black Panther managed to toss him...

Nothing particularly embarrassing there.

and on anothet ocassion was too fast for him...

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Black dodged one attack. Went into hiding. Realised Wolverine could locate him. Attacked Wolverine. Got pinned.

Read the blasted thing again.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Black Panther knew that Wolverine wasn't messing around right after he dodged the first attack and went into hiding. It was only after this that he attacked Wolverine.

WRONG! Read the fight again and stop trying to twist things around.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He only managed to walk away because Wolverine got distracted by Grimm.

That was when he realised that Wolverine wasnt messing when he got pinned...it was too late to get serious.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Are you talking about jinzin's theory that Wolverine's healing factor's speed has a direct correlation with adrenaline, that being why cheap shots have more effect than punches sustained in the heat of battle?

Not really no.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Nope. Wolverine took a single hit right before he "killed" Shingen. It was a none lethal blow, Shingen's sword hit him in the eye. Pretty impressive considering that Shingen's lacky (the Silver Samurai) has managed to two shot Spider-man.

Post the scan up and lets see. It could damn well be argued that if he did not have an adamantuim skull it would have gone into his brain. Also even if it wasnt lethal Wolverines resistance to pain is much less, I saw his eyes it was ****ed up.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Everyone has embarassed the Hand. They are fodder, it is the sole reason the exisit.

Lol did you see how I pointed out that Wolverine got embarrased by the Hand , then you ignored and focused on tha fact that everybodies embarrased the Hand?

Wolverine got embarrsed by the hand!!!!!!

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

🙄

I've responded to your post, and what was you counter post? Nothing. You ignored everything I said and posted your original post again worded differently. You are a joke and you are grasping at straws.

The only points I have not responded to are the points were I dont even understand why you're bringing them up.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
🙄

Nice job digging that up. /golfclap

... Now how about you show the page before that scan - you know - the one I was actually talking about?

You get it! Its irrelevant, he was pissed off at the point were he got struck but your point was that a pissed off Wonder Man going beserk is trying to avoid being dodged.......ssssssstretch.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

He got one shotted. Whether or not he intended to fight back is irrelevant, that ship sailed when he was knocked out with a single punch.

Not going to argue with you, its subjective.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

*sigh*

Once again. The damage of the knuckle duster comes from the fact that the force of the blow is now applied through a much smaller surface area. The same principle as poking someone with a sharpened pencil and poke someone with a broom handle. The hardness of the material only matters if there is give in it and it absorbs the impact and

Whatever anyway the adamantuim makes Wolverines blows harder.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. The rules state blantantly that What Ifs are not allowed.
2. Even if you're going to use it as evidence it doesnt prove that Wolverine is better at H2H he beat Cap by using his adamantuim claws.
3. The whole bloody reason why What Ifs are not allowed because sometimes characters do things they are not supposed to be able to do, for example Wolverine putting his claws through Caps shield.
4. Some people dont have a problem with non canon sources but as stated already its against the rules and posters are therefore in their right mind to reject it so stop making excuses.

1. It says there's exceptions and leaves that open to debate what those exceptions are.
2. This has nothing to do with Cap. 😐
3. Which had nothing to do with Iron Fist.
4. refer to one. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Interestingly enough you use that excuse even now. Wolverines been incinerated to the skeleton and then taken on Janus and Namor and it hardly affected his ability to perform but everytime Wolverine gets hurt in a comic you start moaning about how his HF was depleted.

Hell it might be a good excuse this time but I don't know. Anyway I hope somebody can post what happened before. At any rate Wolverien didnt seem that bad IF wasnt in top shape either, you dont have any proof that Wolverine beating IF.

Sure I do, IF and Shang Chi said they were equals back in heroes for hire. Wolverine curbed Shang Chi.
Iron Fist and Daredevil have gone toe to toe with no superior several times, Wolverine fended off stick who tought Daredevil, he scored an advantage over DD, and he backed DD into a corner while fighting mind control.
Iron Fist has done worse in h2h combat against Sabretooth than Wolverine has (since Sabretooth was developed, or Wolverine was for that matter)
Wolverine did monumentally better against Junzo than IF hoped to do.
Wolverine's been more successful than Iron Fist against Spiderman.
Been more successful against Cap than IF.
Wolverine's a level 7 Iron Fist is a level 6.
Wolverine thinks IF is an ameteur.
Zaran thought Wolverine and Cap were better targets to go after than anyone else after losing to Chi including Chi's equal IF.

Now if you think all of that doesn't matter one bit because they had a fight back in Logan's 20th appearance before he had fighting skills an healing factor, or a history then that's your perogative, and your ignorance.

"Whenever you bring up good points, or point out my endless sutpidity to the point I can't defend myself, I simply "can't be assed" to argue with you... whatever the hell that means."

"Wolverine got embarrassed by the Hand, doesn't matter that it was actually Shingen who did it, or that there was poison involved... And who cares if Punisher has low showings he has high showings that override those.. But Wolverine's majority of high showings are PIS compared to his low showings, the guy got embarrased by the Hand, in a circumstantial free comic, that never actually got printed... So what if they run away from him but not Shang Chi, so what if he's killed 2000 of them in one battle... low feats are his standard.. SO SAYS THE ZONE!"

LMAO "It's irrelivent that Wolverine was trying to track down his former lover who may or may not have been trying to set him up, it's irrelievent that DD divebombed him from three stories up to start off the fight, the fact that Wolverine full nelsoned him is totally irrelivent to his fighting skill DD said what for cryin out loud, not like he's got any skill, discipline, or radar sense."

"Wolverine always fights little girls he considers dangerous, which is why he went all out on X-23 the first time they met... wait no, it's why he went all out on Stacy X the first time they fought.. wait no... it's why he went all out on Marrow the first time they fought.. wait no.... well.. he likes fighting little 11 year olds, and he should have been prepared.... to fight a child... with the avengers there... during an intervention... in a church....."

LOL "Wolverine would have had his head chopped to pieces without an Adamantium skull in the Shingen fight. Doesn't matter that the ONLY damage was done, was a slice to his eye on his eye and only his eye, his Adamantium skull helped him uber loads... "

"Wolverine was so not under the influence of several minds in his head, it's not like they're were contradictory thought boxes or anything, not like Wolverine did things to show he was fighting mind control, not like he stated it later, and even if he did, the guy has no credability, he said his HF ain't what it's been in years because a higher power said it might not be so great and that's totally the same as making a statement about what you've already done."

"Moonknight flipped Wolverine in one panel, what total PWNAGE!"

Without his claws? (the thread is stated as he doesn't have his "Healing factor nor his Adamantium skeleton"😉 but, doesn't take away his actual claws (Bone claws).

With Bone claws stops at Cap #7
Without any claws stops at Shang Chi #3

Originally posted by jinzin
1. It says there's exceptions and leaves that open to debate what those exceptions are.

For Godsake.........

Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

We dont know what those rare exceptions are do we? But we do know that it mentions What If and it says they are exempt, so obvoulsy its best to leave them out but no doubt your going to try and squeeze it in.

Originally posted by jinzin
[B]
2. This has nothing to do with Cap. 😐
3. Which had nothing to do with Iron Fist.
4. refer to one. 😐

2. It does but im not going to explain why.
3. Didn't say it was.
4. If you have a non-canon source and the people in it have very similar powersets to the 616 counterparts, then it could be used......but since its stated in the RULES that they are exempt then any poster is in there right mind to reject it. Cant be bothered to think of one but im pretty sure I could if I tried hard enough.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wrong, even the Atlantean chick commented on how Wolverine didn't look like he wasn't doing so hot. And his ability to fight has nothing to do with his ability to heal jackass.
And you're right, you don't know. you never do.

Even if that were the case IF wasnt in top shape either. Er yeah it does when Wolverine got blasted by Cyclops he was falling all over the place and then Cap Koed him. So if hes sustained an injury that sveraly depeletes his Hf its going to affect his stamina.

Id like to see the scan of that.

Originally posted by jinzin

Sure I do, IF and Shang Chi said they were equals back in heroes for hire. Wolverine curbed Shang Chi.

How many times have Shang Chi and Wolverine fought? So you're going to assume that would happen the second time? Hell Wolverine did just about as well as Shang Chi has against Zaran

Originally posted by jinzin

Iron Fist and Daredevil have gone toe to toe with no superior several times, Wolverine fended off stick who tought Daredevil,

Lol he fended off Stick who wasnt even trying to serioulsy hurt Wolverine....that doesnt prove that his better than DD.

Originally posted by jinzin

he scored an advantage over DD, and he backed DD into a corner while fighting mind control.

He wasnt fighting any bloody mind control and dont tell me that he said he was. Hell Wolverine said his Hf was worse didnt take his word for it then did you?

Originally posted by jinzin

Iron Fist has done worse in h2h combat against Sabretooth than Wolverine has (since Sabretooth was developed, or Wolverine was for that matter)

and Sabrettoth has given Wolverine hell even before his upgrade.....even if i were to give you that one IF has done well against DD and as far as im conmcerned DD is gonna kick his ass.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine did monumentally better against Junzo than IF hoped to do.

Junzo stated that IF was letting his emotions get the better of him...thats why. Read it properly.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine's been more successful than Iron Fist against Spiderman..

and in most of those cases he used his HF and claws to help him.

Originally posted by jinzin

Been more successful against Cap than IF.

Er he still had his claws if he didnt have his claws he wouldnt have won. I did state that there were no claws on this thread.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine's a level 7 Iron Fist is a level 6.

Yeah so is Punisher still held his own against him for abit while injured

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine thinks IF is an ameteur.

So what?

Originally posted by jinzin

Zaran thought Wolverine and Cap were better targets to go after than anyone else after losing to Chi including Chi's equal IF.

Not going to cut it with that.

Originally posted by The Illuminati
Without his claws? (the thread is stated as he doesn't have his "Healing factor nor his Adamantium skeleton"😉 but, doesn't take away his actual claws (Bone claws).

With Bone claws stops at Cap #7
Without any claws stops at Shang Chi #3

He has no claws in this thread.

Originally posted by jinzin
"Whenever you bring up good points, or point out my endless sutpidity to the point I can't defend myself, I simply "can't be assed" to argue with you... whatever the hell that means."

Ok so you tell me what was so great about what he said?

Originally posted by jinzin

"Wolverine got embarrassed by the Hand, doesn't matter that it was actually Shingen who did it, or that there was poison involved...

Again common sense.

1. Shingen hires the Hand to be his bodyguards he does not do it himself.
2. Shingen is a smug arrognat basterd hes not going to posion Wolverine and then carry his ass
3. Wolverine stated that is he hadnt had adamantuim bones the Hand would have chopped his arm off.

Originally posted by jinzin

And who cares if Punisher has low showings he has high showings that override those.. But Wolverine's majority of high showings are PIS

Not neccesarily but beatng Cap when hes starving and sleep deprived is a low showing for Cap, beating Shang Chi in 3 panels is a low showing for Shang Chi.

Originally posted by jinzin

compared to his low showings, the guy got embarrased by the Hand, in a circumstantial free comic, that never actually got printed... So what if they run away from him but not Shang Chi,

Er HF and claws...that makes him more dangerous.

Originally posted by jinzin

so what if he's killed 2000 of them in one battle... low feats are his standard.. SO SAYS THE ZONE!"

let me guess thats the issue where he used the Sentinel for backup?

Originally posted by jinzin

LMAO "It's irrelivent that Wolverine was trying to track down his former lover who may or may not have been trying to set him up, it's irrelievent that DD divebombed him from three stories up to start off the fight, the fact that Wolverine full nelsoned him is totally irrelivent to his fighting skill DD said what for cryin out loud, not like he's got any skill, discipline, or radar sense."

Its not relevant because that example doesnt prove that DD is superior to Wolverine either.

Originally posted by jinzin

"Wolverine always fights little girls he considers dangerous, which is why he went all out on X-23 the first time they met... wait no, it's why he went all out on Stacy X the first time they fought.. wait no... it's why he went all out on Marrow the first time they fought.. wait no.... well.. he likes fighting little 11 year olds, and he should have been prepared.... to fight a child... with the avengers there... during an intervention... in a church....."

The point is that he knew she was dangerous and he allowed himself to get chucked. If you actually read what Wolverine said he was highly embarrased. He didnt want that to happen.

Originally posted by jinzin

LOL "Wolverine would have had his head chopped to pieces without an Adamantium skull in the Shingen fight. Doesn't matter that the ONLY damage was done, was a slice to his eye on his eye and only his eye, his Adamantium skull helped him uber loads... "

When his Hf is gone his resistance to pain is much less...did you see how he reacted when he got stabbed in the foot without his HF? You just dont listen do you, I already explained this. What the hell you think Wolverines gonna do without his HF if his eye gets ****ed up?

Originally posted by jinzin

"Wolverine was so not under the influence of several minds in his head, it's not like they're were contradictory thought boxes or anything, not like Wolverine did things to show he was fighting mind control, not like he stated it later, and even if he did, the guy has no credability, he said his HF ain't what it's been in years because a higher power said it might not be so great and that's totally the same as making a statement about what you've already done."

1. Square boxes do not indicate voices in the head. I can show you lots of comics with a person with square boxes, that doesnt mean he has voices in his head.....that his THOUGHTS.
2. Apart from him saying he was fighting his mindcontrol what evidence was there that he was doing that? It could damn well be argued he had a gulity mind since there is no other evidence im prettys sure if it was in your interest you would debate that his HF was reduced. Just because somebody says they did something doesnt make it true unless there is other proof.

Hell Wolverine said he brought DD along to see if Crossbones was lying. Wolverine said it that makes it true......oh no it doesn't.

Originally posted by jinzin

"Moonknight flipped Wolverine in one panel, what total PWNAGE!"

Again common sense. Im not saying Mk would ahve won the fight the whole bloody point is that Wolverine had the advantage and MK is supposed to be an inferior fighter.....uhhhhhh

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
For Godsake.........

[B]Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

We dont know what those rare exceptions are do we? But we do know that it mentions What If and it says they are exempt, so obvoulsy its best to leave them out but no doubt your going to try and squeeze it in.

The rules say there's exceptions doesn't say what they are, so lest you feel like proving these characters were vastly different than 616 kindly shut up.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
2. It does but im not going to explain why.
3. Didn't say it was.
4. If you have a non-canon source and the people in it have very similar powersets to the 616 counterparts, then it could be used......but since its stated in the RULES that they are exempt then any poster is in there right mind to reject it. Cant be bothered to think of one but im pretty sure I could if I tried hard enough.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if that were the case IF wasnt in top shape either. Er yeah it does when Wolverine got blasted by Cyclops he was falling all over the place and then Cap Koed him. So if hes sustained an injury that sveraly depeletes his Hf its going to affect his stamina.

Horrible example, but I expect no more from a fool. How is Cap cheap shotting Logan from behind even close to being a reflection of his fighting skill being hindered by a weakened HF? And there's a difference between being more susceptable to being effected by attacks from a weakened HF and being hindered in fighting ability because of current injuries. But you wouldn't know that since you're a fool.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Id like to see the scan of that.

It's during the fight with Janus and even pointed out in the respect thread... Fool.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
How many times have Shang Chi and Wolverine fought? So you're going to assume that would happen the second time? Hell Wolverine did just about as well as Shang Chi has against Zaran

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lol he fended off Stick who wasnt even trying to serioulsy hurt Wolverine....that doesnt prove that his better than DD.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He wasnt fighting any bloody mind control and dont tell me that he said he was. Hell Wolverine said his Hf was worse didnt take his word for it then did you?

5. DO YOU OR DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN CONTEXT?
If you do not, it's because you're a fool.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and Sabrettoth has given Wolverine hell even before his upgrade.....even if i were to give you that one IF has done well against DD and as far as im conmcerned DD is gonna kick his ass.

As far as you're concerned DD is gonna kick his butt eh?
Yeah that's using common sense.

IF has never scored an advantage over DD, Wolverine has.. twice.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Junzo stated that IF was letting his emotions get the better of him...thats why. Read it properly.

When you BEGIN to understand fundementals like context maybe then you can give me a lecture on reading....

So he did the first time.. And the second?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and in most of those cases he used his HF and claws to help him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er he still had his claws if he didnt have his claws he wouldnt have won. I did state that there were no claws on this thread.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah so is Punisher still held his own against him for abit while injured

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So what?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not going to cut it with that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok so you tell me what was so great about what he said?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again common sense.

1. Shingen hires the Hand to be his bodyguards he does not do it himself.
2. Shingen is a smug arrognat basterd hes not going to posion Wolverine and then carry his ass
3. Wolverine stated that is he hadnt had adamantuim bones the Hand would have chopped his arm off.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not neccesarily but beatng Cap when hes starving and sleep deprived is a low showing for Cap, beating Shang Chi in 3 panels is a low showing for Shang Chi.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er HF and claws...that makes him more dangerous.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
let me guess thats the issue where he used the Sentinel for backup?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its not relevant because that example doesnt prove that DD is superior to Wolverine either.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point is that he knew she was dangerous and he allowed himself to get chucked. If you actually read what Wolverine said he was highly embarrased. He didnt want that to happen.

Unless:
Wolverine>Vision
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/...arbirdd3jk8.jpg

Wolverine> Moonknight
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/...arbirdd4cv2.jpg

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
When his Hf is gone his resistance to pain is much less...did you see how he reacted when he got stabbed in the foot without his HF? You just dont listen do you, I already explained this. What the hell you think Wolverines gonna do without his HF if his eye gets ****ed up?

No it isn't. He was in pain sure, but his HF DOES NOT NEGATE THE EFFECTS OF PAIN.. I don't know how many times Wolverine has had to say this. It simply does not. Even with that foot injury and a handful of others, Wolverine was giving all hell to Dathstrike, Omega Red and then later Sabretooth.

There's so many examples that apply to Wolverine where his HF does nothig for his pain tolerance it's not even funny and you ignoring that only shows just how foolish you can be.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. Square boxes do not indicate voices in the head. I can show you lots of comics with a person with square boxes, that doesnt mean he has voices in his head.....that his THOUGHTS.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
2. Apart from him saying he was fighting his mindcontrol what evidence was there that he was doing that? It could damn well be argued he had a gulity mind since there is no other evidence im prettys sure if it was in your interest you would debate that his HF was reduced. Just because somebody says they did something doesnt make it true unless there is other proof.

The fact that he was saving women from being raped, petting puppies, and flat out told the voices he didn't want to do what they were telling him to. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell Wolverine said he brought DD along to see if Crossbones was lying. Wolverine said it that makes it true......oh no it doesn't.

He DID bring him along to tell the truth, he jst also happened to possibly need a lawyer.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again common sense. Im not saying Mk would ahve won the fight the whole bloody point is that Wolverine had the advantage and MK is supposed to be an inferior fighter.....uhhhhhh

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
For Godsake.........

[B]Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

We dont know what those rare exceptions are do we? But we do know that it mentions What If and it says they are exempt, so obvoulsy its best to leave them out but no doubt your going to try and squeeze it in.

Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

With rare exceptions,

With rare exceptions,

With rare exceptions,

With rare exceptions,

With rare exceptions,

[voice style=wuss]"Oh we don't know what they are so we can't even begin tryiong to fathom what they could be! they cant' have anything to do with logical reasoning because logic is bad as it stands in the way of my guy winning! so we'd best commit the ad ignr=orantiam fallacy and not try to use any!"[/voice] <- You = Fail

Originally posted by jinzin
maybe you should underline the part where it says there's exceptions. It's funny, I don't even think that's be-all/end-all evidence for IF vs. Wolverine, all I did was bring it up as food for thought and you and OneDumb are throwing PMS fit about it.

The rules say there's exceptions doesn't say what they are, so lest you feel like proving these characters were vastly different than 616 kindly shut up.

I mean, do you use the Grey Hulk snapping Wolverine's neck in an alternate universe as evidence that Wolverine can be killed by snapping his neck? Do you have to prove to everyone that the alternate Wolverine was vastly different from 616 Wolverine? No? Then shut up and sit down.

Don't use double standards on me, you YOURSELF friggin argued against non-canon sources plenty of times to know the rules. Get your self-serving double-standard bs logic outta here, son. And stop wasting everyone's time and diverting the subject from Iron Fist straight-up embarassing Wolverine's tuckus ON-PANEL.

this is just a silly thread to begin with... closed, for spite.