Darth Bane + Darth Zannah Vs. Team Sent To Arrest Palpatine

Started by chilled monkey13 pages
chilled monkey Senior Member

Originally posted by Master Crimzon

I know you're not Nebaris, but this seems to be very much like one of his claims. I'll tell you what- the Jedi of old had a lesser understanding of both the sword and the force, had worse training (the war would likely necessiate each Jedi's training to be more rushed), but more experience and specialization in fighting with other foes in a blade. That's their only advantage, and it isn't sufficient to make up for the PT Jedi's advantages.

For example, take Johun. A Knight in an era where lightsaber dueling was, supposedly, at it's best- and he was a clumsly idiot with no skill whatsoever.

Sorry. While Raskta is, most probably, superior to any one of the Jedi Team, there simply isn't evidence to put Sarro on their level, much less beyond it.

I think people are getting a bit carried away with the Johun-bashing. As I pointed out earlier, by that time his fighting skills were rusty as he had focused on diplomacy. Even so he was still able to beat three trained fighters and fend off an elite one for a time. I fully admit his lightsabre ability was nothing impressive compared to many, but he was not the bumbling fool people are portraying him as. To say he had "no skill whatsoever" is pushing it.

Besides, in any era of any fighting discipline, there are always going to be some people who just aren't that good. You can't use Johun to judge his entire Order.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon

Admittedly, I don't like Old Republic Jedi. But really biased in my arguments? I don't think so.

On reflection no, I suppose not. You do make fair, logical arguments. Sorry about that.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by chilled monkey
[B]Precisely. At last you admit it; "he was going to kill her EVENTUALLY." Not right away as you were claiming before.

He'd thrown Zannah off her game pretty early while he'd had to hold back before. As I said, all of this from Johun joining the others to Sarro's death likely doesn't take place in more than a minute or two. And that's a very generous estimate

Not neccessarily. Remember Johun had spent those ten years focusing on being a diplomatic aide and had gotten rusty. It stated that he had put in only the bare minimum needed to maintain his skills. He was probably better ten years prior.


Johun was a Niman user. Even if you focus on diplomacy, you don't suddenly change your forms. Quite a few Jedi kept their skills when they focuses on diplomacy, too. Nothing indicates Johun was ever a quality duelist.


I admit I didn't know a lot of that. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall Asajj's preferrence was for two sabres. I only know one case of her using a sabrestaff against Mace. She used two sabres against Kit, not a sabrestaff. Not to say that she couldn't wield a sabrestaff well, just that it wasn't her specialty

Usually it is, but for tough spots, she joins the sabers together

chilled monkey Senior Member
Originally posted by Lightsnake
He'd thrown Zannah off her game pretty early while he'd had to hold back before. As I said, all of this from Johun joining the others to Sarro's death likely doesn't take place in more than a minute or two. And that's a very generous estimate

I'd say being able to hold Sarro off even that long is impressive, considering-

A. He was bigger and (physically) stronger than Bane and quick enough to snatch a fly from the air.

B. Was an elite fighter trained by quite possibly the best duellist of that era (and certainly one of the best at least). Not to mention he had extensive experience battling the Sith during the Ruusan war.

C. His powers were hugely boosted by battle meditation.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Johun was a Niman user. Even if you focus on diplomacy, you don't suddenly change your forms. Quite a few Jedi kept their skills when they focuses on diplomacy, too. Nothing indicates Johun was ever a quality duelist.

I don't know which Jedi you are referring to, but if you mean PT-era, they would have been trained in diplomacy from the start. They would have learned how to balance their training so as to be adept in both diplomacy and combat. Johun by contrast, was trained to fight the Sith, so his training would have had little focus on diplomacy. After Ruusan, when he switched to diplomatic work, he would have had a lot to learn.

Besides, here is a direct quote-

"Its (Niman's) general versatility had served him well during the unpredictable grand melees of the Ruusan battlefields. But over the past decade he had made only the most basic efforts to maintain his skill with the blade. Instead he had focused his attention on developing diplomatic talents."

It is clearly stated that he has put in only the absolute minimum into his sword skills, so clearly they will have declined at least some. Even after those 10 years, he was still able to defeat three trained killers and hold off Kel (an elite warrior who used a weapon style that Johun was completely unfamiliar with) for a time.

Plus it is stated that he has survived the battles of Ruusan and as he was Hoth's Padawan he would have been there from the start. The mere fact that he survived implies that he is at least a capable fighter.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I'd say being able to hold Sarro off even that long is impressive, considering-

A. He was bigger and (physically) stronger than Bane and quick enough to snatch a fly from the air.

B. Was an elite fighter trained by quite possibly the best duellist of that era (and certainly one of the best at least). Not to mention he had extensive experience battling the Sith during the Ruusan war.

C. His powers were hugely boosted by battle meditation.


As I said...it was an extremely short amount of time, if that. Do you really see Zannah doing better against a more powerful, more skilled adversary than Sarro with extreme experience, fighting to kill? Let alone two more with him? All of the trio are elite fighters considered peers by one of the few duelists who can claim to be superior to Raskta.


I don't know which Jedi you are referring to, but if you mean PT-era, they would have been trained in diplomacy from the start. They would have learned how to balance their training so as to be adept in both diplomacy and combat. Johun by contrast, was trained to fight the Sith, so his training would have had little focus on diplomacy. After Ruusan, when he switched to diplomatic work, he would have had a lot to learn.

You don't suddenly lose skills with disuse. Agen, Saesee and Kit were so good because they, like a lot of the best, didn't focus on Form VI and put a good deal of study to combat and the forms therein.

Besides, here is a direct quote-

"Its (Niman's) general versatility had served him well during the unpredictable grand melees of the Ruusan battlefields. But over the past decade he had made only the most basic efforts to maintain his skill with the blade. Instead he had focused his attention on developing diplomatic talents."

It is clearly stated that he has put in only the absolute minimum into his sword skills, so clearly they will have declined at least some.


so, Johun, in contrast to just about any other Jedi, actually lets his skills atrophy? Yeah. Johun sucks.

Even after those 10 years, he was still able to defeat three trained killers and hold off Kel (an elite warrior who used a weapon style that Johun was completely unfamiliar with) for a time.

He was able to defeat a group of non force sensitive assassins and nearly had to die to kill the leader? This is the sort of thing you expect from your average Jedi knight. That Johun failed to kill Kel in direct combat isn't really a plus

Plus it is stated that he has survived the battles of Ruusan and as he was Hoth's Padawan he would have been there from the start. The mere fact that he survived implies that he is at least a capable fighter.

Plenty of children survived those battles. Tomcat survived a few. It speaks for having been kept to facing Sith minions, rather than Dark Lords.

chilled monkey Senior Member
Originally posted by Lightsnake
As I said...it was an extremely short amount of time, if that. Do you really see Zannah doing better against a more powerful, more skilled adversary than Sarro with extreme experience, fighting to kill? Let alone two more with him? All of the trio are elite fighters considered peers by one of the few duelists who can claim to be superior to Raskta.

As another poster pointed out it's highly unlikely Zannah will have to face all three at once. That would be extremely poor strategy on Bane's part. More likely he'd bull-rush all of the Jedi at once. He'd probably kill two, then get to grips with Mace. Against all three, she'd be cut down quickly, but I'd say Zannah could hold off one of those guys given they don't have battle meditation on their side.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You don't suddenly lose skills with disuse. Agen, Saesee and Kit were so good because they, like a lot of the best, didn't focus on Form VI and put a good deal of study to combat and the forms therein.

Nonsense. If you don't practise your skills you are going to get rusty no matter how good you are. Even Mace stated how important it is to stay in practise ("one should keep one's skills honed"😉. Plus it was 'suddenly' nothing. Ten years is plenty of time to get rusty. And before you mention Sidious, he had his enormous Force power to compensate. Plus, while he was still remarkably skilled (a testament to how good he was), he would have have been even better before having to go so long without practising.

Agen, Saesee and Kit grew up in an era that was at peace (mostly) and as far as anyone knew thre were no Sith. They had time and space to focus on combat skills while still learning enough of diplomacy to get by (not to mention at that time Jedi were viewed as diplomats first and warriors only when necessary, so all of them would have been good at diplomacy).

Johun was trained in an era when Sith were legion and the galaxy was at war. His training would have focused almost exclusively on Sith fighting. When he went into diplomacy he had to devote a lot of time learning talents that Kit and co had had a lifetime to learn. Even if they didn't specialise in diplomacy, they would at least know the essentials.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
so, Johun, in contrast to just about any other Jedi, actually lets his skills atrophy? Yeah. Johun sucks.

See above.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He was able to defeat a group of non force sensitive assassins and nearly had to die to kill the leader? This is the sort of thing you expect from your average Jedi knight. That Johun failed to kill Kel in direct combat isn't really a plus

Being unable to directly beat a non-Force sensitive is no shame. Jango Fett, Dirge, General Grievous (possibly Boba Fett too) were all non-Force sensitives and that didn't stop them from killing numerous Jedi.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Plenty of children survived those battles. Tomcat survived a few. It speaks for having been kept to facing Sith minions, rather than Dark Lords.

Tomcat and most of those children were brought in towards the end of the Ruusan campaign. Johun was there from the start. Ruusan had six major battles and countless minor skirmishes, raids etc. He did not survive "a few" battles, he survived them all.

chilled monkey Senior Member

Sorry, didn't mean to double post.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by chilled monkey
As another poster pointed out it's highly unlikely Zannah will have to face all three at once. That would be extremely poor strategy on Bane's part. More likely he'd bull-rush all of the Jedi at once. He'd probably kill two, then get to grips with Mace. Against all three, she'd be cut down quickly, but I'd say Zannah could hold off one of those guys given they don't have battle meditation on their side.

He'd 'probably kill two?' Ok, step back and read what you write:
Bane is going to just rush 4 of the greatest duelists the galaxy has ever known, one of whom can compare to him for pure strength, nullifying one of his greatest advantage, can see Bane's weak points, nullifying another, can best him in speed, nullifying another, with a fighting style that is Bane's worst nightmare. Bane's going to rush them, and be met by Mace immediately before he can touch the others. How exactly will Bane kill the other two immediately, now, with Mace ready for him? How is Zannah going to 'hold off' the others at any second? You've changed your argument...suddenly the other two will somehow die so Zannah can hold the last off until she's a corpse, assuming Mace is going to allow this when he's fully ready for an opponent he can at least match.

And really, stop with this BM nonsense. None of them need it. They've all shown to be far better than Sarro. If Sarro needs BM to stand with a single, inexperienced Sith apprentice, he's highly overrated. Did Agen need BM to take down Quinlan Vos? Did Anakin need it to take on Dooku?

Tell me, how IS Zannah going to hold off Agen? A more experienced, more skilled and all around better Form V combatant than Sarro? Let alone if Agen is joined by Kit OR Saesee.


Nonsense. If you don't practise your skills you are going to get rusty no matter how good you are.

The Jedi seem to disagree.

Even Mace stated how important it is to stay in practise ("one should keep one's skills honed"😉. Plus it was 'suddenly' nothing. Ten years is plenty of time to get rusty.

Yaddle didn't practice for over a century. She was as good as she ever was. Obi-wan hadn't kept his skills fully up to date for a long time...he was still capable of taking Vader on. Qui-Gon had hardly drawn his saber for any purpose in some time and was still considered one of the finest duelists of the time.

And before you mention Sidious, he had his enormous Force power to compensate. Plus, while he was still remarkably skilled (a testament to how good he was), he would have have been even better before having to go so long without practising.

Or it could be the Force kind of compensates. And Dooku didn't do much sparring during the entirety of the Clone Wars...look what happened there. Heck, when was the last time Yoda lighted up a saber?
All you're doing here is demonstrating what everyone is sure of: Johun is, and has always been a joke.


Agen, Saesee and Kit grew up in an era that was at peace (mostly) and as far as anyone knew thre were no Sith. They had time and space to focus on combat skills while still learning enough of diplomacy to get by (not to mention at that time Jedi were viewed as diplomats first and warriors only when necessary, so all of them would have been good at diplomacy).

All of them have seen combat to absurd degrees and focused on combat. Agen was considered a fan of 'aggressive' negotiations at that. Jedi have always been peacekeepers first. Simply learning to be diplomats doesn't mean they're not going to be good. The three are named three of the best duelists the Jedi Order has produced. Ever. Full stop.

Johun was trained in an era when Sith were legion and the galaxy was at war.
His training would have focused almost exclusively on Sith fighting.

This is the guy who doesn't bother to keep his saber skills up to date, proves nothing but a nuisance in straight up fights to his allies and can't take out a group of assassins? Why do I have the feeling Hoth made sure he, along with the rest of the Padawans, wasn't fighting any Dark Lords?

When he went into diplomacy he had to devote a lot of time learning talents that Kit and co had had a lifetime to learn.

And somehow, he magically lost all his skills despite having to be a bodyguard? Does this strike you as odd?

Even if they didn't specialise in diplomacy, they would at least know the essentials.

Because unlike Johun, they know how to not suck?

Being unable to directly beat a non-Force sensitive is no shame. Jango Fett, Dirge, General Grievous (possibly Boba Fett too) were all non-Force sensitives and that didn't stop them from killing numerous Jedi.

'Possibly Boba?' Let's hear these Jedi. Jango is seen killed two-three Jedi in the heat of battle, tending to catch them unawares and as a fully trained Mando, he's got some advantages there.
Is Kel a Mandalorian? Is Kel a borderline invincible monster to whom sabers are useless and the force is nearly useless on? Is Kel a giant, genius cyborg programmed specifically to fight Jedi and trained by Count Dooku in saber combat personally?
Kel is nothing more than most Jedi should be able to face. Kel is not accustomed or trained to fight Jedi, unlike Mandalorians. He is not immune to the Force or to the lightsaber, unlike Durge, he is not programmed to fight Jedi or trained to do so unlike Grievous. If it was, say, Agen there, do you think Kel would have lasted a heartbeat?


Tomcat and most of those children were brought in towards the end of the Ruusan campaign. Johun was there from the start./Quote]
The first two battles of Ruusan were space battles. The third mostly as well, and mostly against basic Sith infantry. Fourth was a pure ground battle and since Hoth wasn't even present for it, there's no reason to suspect Johun was. The Sixth as well, was led by Saleeh and Kiel Charney. There is little reason Padawans would be led headlong into the ranks to fight Dark Lords with the likes of raskta and charney, particularly when their master isn't there. Is there anything saying Johun saw active combat in the 4th and 5th Battles?
[Quote]
Ruusan had six major battles and countless minor skirmishes, raids etc. He did not survive "a few" battles, he survived them all.

It'd be impossible for him to have been there by the first 2...the Jedi under Hoth only arrived in the third. Hoth didn't participate in a good deal of them. Battles don't tend to involves the entirety of one's forces. I'll buy that Raskta was butchering Sith left and right in the 4th and 5th battles...but Johun? If Hoth lets his Padawan off there, he's a poor master

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
He'd 'probably kill two?' Ok, step back and read what you write:
Bane is going to just rush 4 of the greatest duelists the galaxy has ever known, one of whom can compare to him for pure strength, nullifying one of his greatest advantage, can see Bane's weak points, nullifying another, can best him in speed, nullifying another, with a fighting style that is Bane's worst nightmare. Bane's going to rush them, and be met by Mace immediately before he can touch the others.

No, he's not. Bane's going to do exactly what Sidious did. As I've already proved, Bane did the same damn thing against Rastka and Farfalla and they only survived becuase of the huge benefits of Battle Meditation. Bane would do exactly what Sidious did and it would turn out the same. Even if you don't think that Bane is capable of Sidious' speeds you still have to factor in that they'd stab him and he'd take a head off and keep coming.

Tell me, how IS Zannah going to hold off Agen? A more experienced, more skilled and all around better Form V combatant than Sarro? Let alone if Agen is joined by Kit OR Saesee.

She could pwn his ass with the Force. And BMed Sarro was a beast, I doubt that Agen-I-can-last-2-seconds-in-a-fight-suckass.

The three are named three of the best duelists the Jedi Order has produced. Ever. Full stop.

My mind has drawn a blank. Where was that stated? And by whom? Seriously.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No, he's not. Bane's going to do exactly what Sidious did. As I've already proved, Bane did the same damn thing against Rastka and Farfalla and they only survived becuase of the huge benefits of Battle Meditation.

Yawn. They went after HIM, actually. "I ALREADY PROVED WHAT BANE'D DO!!!!!" Oh, stop your squealing. Bane does NOT have a plan like Palpatine had, Mace and the Jedi are ready for combat and Mace is not going to LET his comrades die. he can meet Bane for speed and when Bane rushes forward across the more expansive room, he has Mace meeting him. Guess what? They don't need Battle Meditation here. They have a guy capable of taking on Bane in straight combat. And winning. The three of them will go after Zannah on the other side and kill her in very short order before moving to help Mace, overwhelming Bane completely.

Bane would do exactly what Sidious did and it would turn out the same.

"BECUZ I SAY SO!!!!"
Bane cannot divert attention from Mace who will know he's the threat and move to meet him immediately once combat starts. If he does, Mace will kill him. The problems that presented themselves to Raskta and the others aren't present here-Bane's curved saber style, his physical strength, his attempts to go for Worror.

And, oh yes, the area isn't exactly conducive to this strategy. Palpatine's office allowed for a quick, tidy ambush. Tython's area doesn't.


Even if you don't think that Bane is capable of Sidious' speeds you still have to factor in that they'd stab him and he'd take a head off and keep coming.

Uh, no. They're all capable of skilled defense and Bane has to account for Mace, who is at least his equal and Vaapad is a huge issue for him. Bane tries a bull rush and is promptly decapitated by Mace, who, thanks to Shatterpoint, has seen his weakness, how to get inside his style and can meet Bane for speed, strength and uses a style Bane can't know, while Bane's unfamiliar style isn't a problem for Mace, which gave him the advantage over Raskta anyways. In fact, it only took Raskta and Farfalla to force Bane into pure defense. Only because Johun was incompetent and couldn't take his hand off did they lose. Guess what? Experienced warriors of far more skill won't make that mistake.
And funny, somehow the trio is incapable of defense or that Bane can divert his attention to one while not worrying about a strike on his head from the others?


She could pwn his ass with the Force. And BMed Sarro was a beast, I doubt that Agen-I-can-last-2-seconds-in-a-fight-suckass.

Yes. The same Agen who is stated to be one of the best duelists ever? Palpatine is just that good. According to Lucas as of ROTS you need to be Yoda or Mace to fight him.
Not Dooku, not Obi-wan, not Bane, not Zannah. Period. End of story. Goodbye!
And with the Force? Yeah, notice she didn't try until Sarro was distracted? Could it be Zannah "GASP!" Can't do it to an opponent ON HIS GUARD WITH THE FORCE?!?!?!?!?
No, that's too much for you to consider.
Show me where Sarro is considered one of the best duelists ever and we'll talk. Until then, get back under your rock.


My mind has drawn a blank. Where was that stated? And by whom? Seriously.

ROTS novelization. By the narrator, Mace and Obi-wan for good measure, kthxbye!

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Yawn. They went after HIM, actually.

Wow, you yawned. That's...... funny? I guess mabye next time you could try adding some slapstick, liven up the act.

And yes initially, they did go for him, then he charged at them and Farfalla specifically mentions that without the BM, he'd have died and since Raskta only just got out of the way, its a fair asumtion that she would have too.

Oh, stop your squealing. Bane does NOT have a plan like Palpatine had,

Plan?!! You mean jump into the middle of 4 jedi masters and recklessly attack?? Yeah, I can sure as hell see why he took over the galaxy.

Mace and the Jedi are ready for combat and Mace is not going to LET his comrades die.

You know thats funny, becuase I'm pretty sure that I saw something one time when he did just that. It's also funny becuase that same thing is going to happen again.

he can meet Bane for speed

"BECUZ I SAY SO!!!"
See, I can do it too.
You seriously underestimate Bane. Prove that Mace can achieve a speed rivalling Bane without using Vaapad which would only kickin After Bane's cut through (at least) two of his lackeys and they're toe to toe.

and when Bane rushes forward across the more expansive room, he has Mace meeting him.

If Banes smart then he will jump right into the middle as they try to stabb him in the chest and cut down two of the Masters because he's At least 2 thirds as fast as ROTS Sidious. Then attacks the other Master, leaving Bane taking on Windu, untill she or he comes to Banes/Maces rescue.

In fact, it only took Raskta and Farfalla to force Bane into pure defense.

He was faking that to get at Worror

And with the Force? Yeah, notice she didn't try until Sarro was distracted? Could it be Zannah "GASP!" Can't do it to an opponent ON HIS GUARD WITH THE FORCE?!?!?!?!?

Who knows why she didn't do it, but as you MUST know, Jedi always have a force-guard on in a fight. But from what I have seen, Zannah is stronger in the force then Agen or the others and seems capable of taking one out with a zap of lightning or Sith sorcery

ROTS novelization. By the narrator, Mace and Obi-wan for good measure, kthxbye!

Please post them

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Wow, you yawned. That's...... funny? I guess mabye next time you could try adding some slapstick, liven up the act.

You know what else is funny? Your attemtps at an argument

And yes initially, they did go for him, then he charged at them and Farfalla specifically mentions that without the BM, he'd have died and since Raskta only [b]just got out of the way, its a fair asumtion that she would have too.

Your spelling ability matches your debating ability: Bane goes for them and RASKTA intercepts him. Mace, a more skilled and faster combatant isn't going to do the same? Unlike Raskta, he won't need Farfalla


Plan?!! You mean jump into the middle of 4 jedi masters and recklessly attack?? Yeah, I can sure as hell see why he took over the galaxy.

You mean 'lure them there to an environment where he can eliminate three quickly and then engage Windu and draw Anakin to the Dark Side.'


You know thats funny, becuase I'm pretty sure that I saw something one time when he did just that. It's also funny becuase that same thing is going to happen again.

To a faster opponent in a different environment and scenario? Righto.


"BECUZ I SAY SO!!!"
See, I can do it too.
You seriously underestimate Bane. Prove that Mace can achieve a speed rivalling Bane without using Vaapad which would only kickin After Bane's cut through (at least) two of his lackeys and they're toe to toe.

Why would I need it 'without' Vaapad? Mace tends to use that in a fight instantly. Bane will rush them and Mace will meet him...just like Raskta did. Same environment.
Mace, the one who moves so fast, you can't even see his arms? Mace, who can land six punches on a man before he can complete a blink? Mace, described as moving so fast, he was nothing but a dark and purple blur? Mace, described as moving so fast he was almost invisible? Mace, able to exceed Grievous for speed and ability in a fight?


The scenario is just the same as the Palps fight. Mace will be standing at the back and Bane will jump into the middle and cut down two of the Masters becuse he's At least 2 thirds as fast as ROTS Sidious.

When does Bane try to jump into the middle and why will he attempt something like this? As we saw in the Tython fight, he RUSHES AT THEM. Palpatine didn't jump in the middle, he leaped in FRONT.
And RASKTA WAS ABLE TO MEET HIM STILL. Mace is in the middle at the forefront, too. The others are around him. You're trying to ascribe weird things to Bane.
And that fast won't cut it. Mace will be able to match and intercept him. And how'll Bane perform this leap without two of the masters lunging to meet Zannah?

Then attacks the other Master, leaving Bane taking on Windu, untill she or he comes to Banes/Maces rescue. [/B]

yes, Mace will just be standing by twiddling his thumbs as Bane does all this. He won't intercept Bane why? Tython's fortress a bit BIGGER than Palpatine's Office without real room to catch someone by surprise with a single leap or quarters confined enough to pull this off.
The MOMENT Bane sees the Jedi, he'll rush at them, allowing Mace to meet him as Raskta did while two others engage Zannah from the other entrance.
Zannah, without Johun to save her and limit the other fighter, will be killed in short order.

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
You know what else is funny? Your attemtps at an argument

You know what's funny? You still called my joke funny.

Bane goes for them and RASKTA intercepts him.

...and then jumps out of the way to avoid getting smashed. If Mace is smart then he will do the same, letting Bane do the aforementioned smackdown on the other 3.

Mace, the one who moves so fast, you can't even see his arms? Mace, who can land six punches on a man before he can complete a blink? Mace, described as moving so fast, he was nothing but a dark and purple blur? Mace, described as moving so fast he was almost invisible? Mace, able to exceed Grievous for speed and ability in a fight?

Bane, the person who move's so fast, it takes people literal seconds to tell that he's moved even helped by the screaming man on the floor, Bane, who can strike 16 times in under a second, Bane who can move so fast that people literally can't see his strikes.
But don't have the boks so I can't list all his feats.

When does Bane try to jump into the middle and why will he attempt something like this? As we saw in the Tython fight, he RUSHES AT THEM. Palpatine didn't jump in the middle, he leaped in FRONT.
And RASKTA WAS ABLE TO MEET HIM STILL. Mace is in the middle at the forefront, too. The others are around him. You're trying to ascribe weird things to Bane.

Already done this.

See you tommorrow.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
[B]You know what's funny? You still called my joke funny.

Hello sarcasm

...and then jumps out of the way to avoid getting smashed. If Mace is smart then he will do the same, letting Bane do the aforementioned smackdown on the other 3.


She evades AFTER her strikes fail to damage him. The others will already be moving and, oh yes, Mace, unlike Raskta, can meet Bane for strength


Bane, the person who move's so fast, it takes people literal seconds to tell that he's moved even helped by the screaming man on the floor,

As opposed to Mace who, by the time bounty hunters realized he'd attacked, lost several of their number?

Bane, who can strike 16 times in under a second,

That's Grievous, dear.

Bane who can move so fast that people literally can't see his strikes.
But don't have the boks so I can't list all his feats.

Mace is described at that speed...quite a bit. That's basic Vaapad, actually


Already done this.

Actually, you failed at it. Unless Mace suddenly gains Raskta's speed and strength-and he's stronger and faster- than what she did has no bearing.

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Hello sarcasm

I'm sorry, but sarcasm isn't in at the moment. She's currently vomitting in the toilets, sticking her fingers in her ears and trying to pretend that you don't exist.

She evades AFTER her strikes fail to damage him. The others will already be moving and, oh yes, Mace, unlike Raskta, can meet Bane for strength

I don't care if he can balance a scatepark on his chin whilst whistling your theme music, unless he's strong enough to skyrocket Bane into the atmosphere, he's still got to move out of the way (If he can) to avoid being crushed, allowing Bane to chow down on his tasty friends.

As opposed to Mace who, by the time bounty hunters realized he'd attacked, lost several of their number?

That was not becuase of Mace's speed but becuase he did things in the force which they wheren't fully aware of ( Redirecting blasters, smacking them with lightsaber hilts) and becuase alot of them where behind a corner or something.

That's Grievous, dear.

Whoops, I'm sorry the actual quote stated that he seemed to have 16 arms at once, each with a saber.

Wait...... That 's even better.

Actually, you failed at it.

Whatever you say butch 😉

Waiting...

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I'm sorry, but sarcasm isn't in at the moment. She's currently vomitting in the toilets, sticking her fingers in her ears and trying to pretend that you don't exist.

I'll let this go without comment. Mocking you is like having a boxing match with a crippled kitten


I don't care if he can balance a scatepark on his chin whilst whistling your theme music, unless he's strong enough to skyrocket Bane into the atmosphere, he's still got to move out of the way (If he can) to avoid being crushed, allowing Bane to chow down on his tasty friends.

Alright, for the idiots out there:
1. Raskta was able to intercept him and attack him. She had to dodge when she was unable to do damage.
2. The other Jedi will have split by this time. They're not going to be standing there waiting for Bane's attack and unlike Raskta, Mace can match Bane and thus can keep him occupied.


That was not becuase of Mace's speed but becuase he did things in the force which they wheren't fully aware of ( Redirecting blasters, smacking them with lightsaber hilts) and becuase alot of them where behind a corner or something.

No, actually, he'd used nothing but speed and his saber on the Guild.


Whoops, I'm sorry the actual quote stated that he seemed to have 16 arms at once, each with a saber.p/Quote]
I'm sorry, it stated nothing of the sort.
[Quote]
Wait...... That 's even better.

a quick check of the book reveals...you're lying


Whatever you say butch 😉

Waiting...


How cute, he's stopped addressing just about anything else.

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
I'll let this go without comment. Mocking you is like having a boxing match with a crippled kitten

Oddly Arousing??

2. The other Jedi will have split by this time.

No, they will have run after Mace (towards the enemy like sane people). They will do exactly what Farfalla did, which is be very surprised that Bane didn't topple two-ways at once and will be mown down by an enraged Sith Behemoth.

unlike Raskta, Mace can match Bane and thus can keep him occupied.

Does Mace have some uber force attack that can create a brick wall in front of Bane? Does Mace has a special move that can stop a bullrush? Mace is going to swing his lightsaber, jump out of the way and be confident of a job well done. Then be surprised when Bane rips through his allies.

No, actually, he'd used nothing but speed and his saber on the Guild.

I don't know what you're talking about. What Guild?

a quick check of the book reveals...you're lying

That's some Grade C bullshitting at best. Am I honestly expected to believe that you checked 2 entire books for the specific quote I'm talking about and that you managed this quickly?

I'm talking about when Bane attacks Zannah and she says that it seemed that he had 16 sabers at once. I'll have the actual quote for you in 3 days, when I return from seeing my Dad (who I love) in London (which I hate).

How cute, he's stopped addressing just about anything else

Nothing to address, the arguments pretty much whether Mace can miraculously stop Bane in his tracks, which he can't.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Oddly Arousing??

Pointless in ease


No, they will have run after Mace (towards the enemy like sane people). They will do exactly what Farfalla did, which is be very surprised that Bane didn't topple two-ways at once and will be mown down by an enraged Sith Behemoth.

Raskta was able to stop his initial charge and had to dodge his next attacks.
Are they going to somehow stay bunched together? Leave Zannah out of the equation? How is Bane going to afford to turn his back on Mace?


Does Mace have some uber force attack that can create a brick wall in front of Bane? Does Mace has a special move that can stop a bullrush?

No, he just forces Bane to pause and fight. Unlike Raskta, Mace won't be thrown aside like a ragdoll.

Mace is going to swing his lightsaber, jump out of the way and be confident of a job well done. Then be surprised when Bane rips through his allies.

Yeah, Bane will just turn his back to Mace and the others won't be doing anything useful like giving him support or killing Zannah on the other side of the room.
And Mace is going to know about Bane being invincible save for the orbalisks in one of two ways: his saber fails to cut or his shatterpoint before he moves forward


I don't know what you're talking about. What Guild?

The Bounty Hunter guild


That's some Grade C bullshitting at best. Am I honestly expected to believe that you checked 2 entire books for the specific quote I'm talking about and that you managed this quickly?

No. I've just read the books before. Notably even your idol Nebaris has never used that nonsense.


I'm talking about when Bane attacks Zannah and she says that it seemed that he had 16 sabers at once. I'll have the actual quote for you in 3 days, when I return from seeing my Dad (who I love) in London (which I hate).

mmmhmm. Did she also say he's the black private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks? Did she say he totally shot first?


Nothing to address, the arguments pretty much whether Mace can miraculously stop Bane in his tracks, which he can't.

Bane DOES stop to answer Raskta. She just has to dodge his next attacks.

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Are they going to somehow stay bunched together?

They weren't exactly quick on the uptake when they faced off with Sidious, and since Bane is pretty damn close to Sidious in terms of speed, he should be able to close the gap quick enough to take advantage of their surprise and dominate.

Damn, only time for 1 more

No. I've just read the books before. Notably even your idol Nebaris has never used that nonsense.

Cute.

The quote is:
'the strikes coming so fast it seemed as if he wielded a dozen blades at once'

So not 16 but good enough

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
They weren't exactly quick on the uptake when they faced off with Sidious, and since Bane is pretty damn close to Sidious in terms of speed, he should be able to close the gap quick enough to take advantage of their surprise and dominate.

In close quarters. Taken totally by surprise, without Mace intercepting the Sith.
Your premise is faulty. And rather idiotic.


Cute.

The quote is:
'the strikes coming so fast it seemed as if he wielded a dozen blades at once'

So not 16 but good enough


And considering Mace can outmatch sixteen strikes a second from a full out Grievous, seems Bane can't measure up.

Taven Restricted
Originally posted by Lightsnake
In close quarters.

Which the room where Bane and Zannah fought the Jedi strike team would qualify as.

Taken totally by surprise,

They were all in a battle stance, with their lightsabers ready, waiting for Sidious to make his move. Can you even be any better prepared than that?

without Mace intercepting the Sith.

Primarily due to the fact that he wasn't able to react to the speed of a relatively low grade, street level Force User who isn't capable of moving at speeds beyond what the human eye can see; love to see him do any better against someone who appeared completely invisible to the eyes of powerful Force Users when he was essentially at his youngling stage in training.

Your premise is faulty. And rather idiotic.

No, the idea that Mace will succeed against Bane when he failed against an astronomically slower combatant in the form of Sidious, under very similar conditions, is what would qualify as "rather idiotic." Not that Bane needs to speed blitz the weak spots of the team to ensure victory; either he or Zannah alone are capable of taking on the likes of these lightweights and prevailing, and quite easily at that.

And considering Mace can outmatch sixteen strikes a second from a full out Grievous, seems Bane can't measure up.[/B]

Perhaps if "the strikes coming so fast it seemed as if he wielded a dozen blades at once" = "a dozen strikes a second," rather than closer to an "instant" (which should have been evident by the "at once"😉, than yes, you'd be absolutely correct.