Wolverine Origins (MODS please read)

Started by srankmissingnin8 pages

Wolverine Origins (MODS please read)

Note: This might need to be moved to the Comic Book Forum, but it mostly concerns the Versus Forum and debates, so I thought I'd post it here first.

I was wondering if we, as a board, can vote Wolverine Origins out of continuity? Just decided to out right ignore everything that takes place with in? We have the PIS and CIS rules to ignore isolated feats, but we really should have something in place to ignore entire runs when they do nothing but tarnish the history of the characters involved... and what better run to start with than Wolverine Origins? Wolverine Origins is a train wreak, it does nothing but rape Wolverine's character and we should make an example of it by banishing it form continuity. Can we put it to a vote or get a Mod ruling?

No story before Wolverine Origins has managed to butcher a character on the same level Way has with Wolverine. Not a single worth while thing has come from this series. Seriously, it is an outrage. It's almost like the point of Origins is to disregard every heroic character trait Wolverine has, to completely destroy his character... and turn him into a mass murder, a torturer, and even a war criminal responsible for the execution of women and children. Where is the man of honor? Gone. There is virtually no ties between the character established in previous Wolverine stories and the man present in Origins.

Wolverine's past as established in Origins makes him a villain ,and one that his significantly worse then most of Marvel's big bads. Even if I'm supposed to buy that he has reformed, feels guilty about his past and wants to redeem himself for his actions (which has aways been Wolverine's stick), the stuff he has done is so heinous, that nothing short of death will suffice. If he had any sort of honor (and considering he supposedly lives by Bushido... ) he'd kill himself out right or turn himself into the authorities for his war crimes and be executed. Because of Origins, Wolverine loses all his credibility. How can someone lecture Magneto to his face when he has done things far, far, FAR worse?

Nothing in the story meshes at all. It is completely out of character for Wolverine, and disregards every character driven moment in Wolverine's past. I can't imagine why anyone would allow Wolverine to walk around free considering his past. If Hitler survived in Marvel and started wearing spandex and fighting crime because he felt bad about what he did, do you think Captain America would team up with him? No, he'd kick his ass all over the place. No one would tolerate it... why do they tolerate Wolverine?

It's not like he is even a puppet on strings either, nothing thus far suggest he was anything other than a willing participate... he even gives orders to people. Before Origins we all knew Logan had done some shady stuff int the past, but it was all under the pretences that he wasn't in control of his actions; that he was being brain washed and mind controlled, feed false information and manipulated. He certainly seems pretty in-control to me... and how does that play well with what's been established before?

Wolverine was always supposed to be a man of honor, one prone to fits of extreme violence, but a man of honor none the less. Where is that Wolverine? Where is the fallen Samurai?

The whole run is so out of character, for Wolverine. I think we as a forum need to address this with a forum ruling to banish Wolverine Origins from continuity, or a new rule to address when a character has been so miss handled across an entire arch not just a single incident.

Raise your hand if you care.

...

*crickets*

Nah, I'm kidding. But realistically, we can't as a forum place a policy on how a specific character or series is treated. This isn't CBR. You can personally ignore the run and direct Masterbruce to this thread when he attempts to use events from the title to degrade Wolverine's abilities, but... we're readers, it's official fiction.

Go write a letter to Marvel, put this effort into something more likely to have a lasting and greater effect.

I do appreciate where you're coming from though. Especially since this series is essentially retconning Wolverine with every issue...

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Raise your hand if you care.

...

*crickets*

Nah, I'm kidding. But realistically, we can't as a forum place a policy on how a specific character or series is treated. This isn't CBR. You can personally ignore the run and direct Masterbruce to this thread when he attempts to use events from the title to degrade Wolverine's abilities, but... we're readers, it's official fiction.

Go write a letter to Marvel, put this effort into something more likely to have a lasting and greater effect.

I do appreciate where you're coming from though. Especially since this series is essentially retconning Wolverine with every issue...

We've decided as a forum to ignore certan instances of PIS. I don't see how PIS being stretched out over an entire arch should be treated differently. 🙁

I haven't read any of origins.

Is it really that bad srank?

Personally I don't mind if its disregarded. I'm not sure how and where it fits into the continuity with the astonishing X-Men run for example.

I mean he was being killed by a bomb internally at the same time he was up on Breakworld with the rest of the X-Men dealing with that Collossus prophecy wasn't he?

No body else is really reading it I don't think. I know I stopped sometime back. and the only ones I even bothered to actually buy were the ones with Jubilee in it. but .. I didn't buy the one where she was impaled.

It really does seem like an elseworld sorta thing doesn't it?

But I'll ask the people who want it to stay cannon. Where does it fit in continuity with the Astonishing X-Men run? I mean we all make jokes about wolverine being in multiple places at once. But I think there's a stretch when he's both off world and running around collecting his past.

It really doesn't fit in the timeline and could be discounted on that basis.

Out of character, doesn't fit in the timeline. I'll cast a vote for disregarding this travesty to comics.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
I haven't read any of origins.

Is it really that bad srank?

Yeah, it's atrocious.

Origins is shit, that's my view. But actually Wolverine is the only one shown with skill(at times), I mean how long did it take Deadpool to grow back a couple fingers in Origins? He fully reformed from liquid in seconds in C/D, but it takes minutes to grow back 2 fingers. 😐

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
We've decided as a forum to ignore certan instances of PIS. I don't see how PIS being stretched out over an entire arch should be treated differently. 🙁
But we can't officialize it. And even if we do that, we certainly can't enforce it. Paul can't go around banning for talk of a specific arc.

Though... Bada might. Go PM him.

😛

So Origins, an abomination to Wolverine. Doesn't fit in the Timeline and disregards other characters histories as well.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Personally I don't mind if its disregarded. I'm not sure how and where it fits into the continuity with the astonishing X-Men run for example.

I mean he was being killed by a bomb internally at the same time he was up on Breakworld with the rest of the X-Men dealing with that Collossus prophecy wasn't he?

No body else is really reading it I don't think. I know I stopped sometime back. and the only ones I even bothered to actually buy were the ones with Jubilee in it. but .. I didn't buy the one where she was impaled.

It really does seem like an elseworld sorta thing doesn't it?

But I'll ask the people who want it to stay cannon. Where does it fit in continuity with the Astonishing X-Men run? I mean we all make jokes about wolverine being in multiple places at once. But I think there's a stretch when he's both off world and running around collecting his past.

It really doesn't fit in the timeline and could be discounted on that basis.

Out of character, doesn't fit in the timeline. I'll cast a vote for disregarding this travesty to comics.

It takes before Whedon's Astonishing.... or maye after... where the hell does Astonishing fit? Origins happens pretty much right after HoM. Issues 1-15 take please before Loebs run on Wolverine and 16-26 (minus flash back issues, take place afterwards.

... maybe?

Originally posted by Creshosk
So Origins, an abomination to Wolverine. Doesn't fit in the Timeline and disregards other characters histories as well.

Yea, that pretty much sums it up.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
But we can't officialize it. And even if we do that, we certainly can't enforce it. Paul can't go around banning for talk of a specific arc.

Though... Bada might. Go PM him.

😛

No, we'd just have to point out that its not considered canon anymore than a what if or elseworld is.

We don't ban people for trying to use those.

Originally posted by Mindset
Origins is shit, that's my view. But actually Wolverine is the only one shown with skill(at times), I mean how long did it take Deadpool to grow back a couple fingers in Origins? He fully reformed from liquid in seconds in C/D, but it takes minutes to grow back 2 fingers. 😐

Dum Dum koyed Logan by shooting him in the back of the skull with a hand gun. Everyone in Origins is all over the place.

And Way is the guy who wrote Wolverine taking a nuke point blank in Venom... a bit of a discrepancy.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Dum Dum koyed Logan by shooting him in the back of the skull with a hand gun. Everyone in Origins is all over the place.

And Way is the guy who wrote Wolverine taking a nuke point blank in Venom... a bit of a discrepancy.

Yea, that's why I said he showed skill at times. Eventually the bad writing has to even affect Logan. 😛

Originally posted by Creshosk
We don't ban people for trying to use those.
I can think of a few problems it would solve if we did.

If I worked at Marvel, I'd write the whole thing off by saying that Wanda just concocted a crazy, convoluted past where everything tied together for Wolverine in HoM - rather then help him remember the truth - and Romulus isn't even real, just someone Wanda created.

Wow. The idea of disregarding an entire run just because you dislike it?

Origins is an abomination. No one argues that fact. However, it remains a canon abomination unless Marvel says otherwise. None of us have to like it, but that doesn't mean we can ignore it.

Lets throw WWH in there too while were at it.pinch

😆 😂 😆 😂 😆 😂

this thread cracks me up. 😆 😆 😆

Would ignoring the canonicity of Origins thereby ignore the retcon to Wolverine's immortality?