Originally posted by CreshoskI stopped a couple of months ago due to he shop closing down (last one I read was him going afte daken, then his fight with deadpool)
He wasn't prouds of himself preorigins. but during origins when he was doing the things he was fine with it. Have you been reading the run?
Originally posted by RaoulI'm just tired of people banding the phrase "slippery slope" around improperly. One does NOT lead to another. To say that it does is to commit the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
pr1983
Its like saying that legalizing marijuana will lead to a slippery slope of legalizing the other illegal drugs. No, the other harder drugs are different and are more damaging. So its a false claim to say that one will lead to the other if there's no necessitation for it to lead to the other.
"Liking the color blue is a slippery slope to liking the color yellow, because you'll like blue green next, and then just green, and that leads to liking yellow green..."
That's how absurd it looks to me.
Originally posted by DestinyGuy678Yeah, I know when he fought omega red in origins.. Are you aware that my favorite character in comics is Jubilee? Do you know when she appeared in Origins?
they talk about it in issue 7 of origins
That's right.. Omega red impaled her. I know what happened in the issue. Doesn't change that DURING the heinous acts he was NOT regretting it.
Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm just tired of people banding the phrase "slippery slope" around improperly. One does NOT lead to another. To say that it does is to commit the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.Its like saying that legalizing marijuana will lead to a slippery slope of legalizing the other illegal drugs. No, the other harder drugs are different and are more damaging. So its a false claim to say that one will lead to the other if there's no necessitation for it to lead to the other.
"Liking the color blue is a slippery slope to liking the color yellow, because you'll like blue green next, and then just green, and that leads to liking yellow green..."
That's how absurd it looks to me.
if we allow this, every comic becomes fair game.
what if the wolverine fans decide they don't like astonishing x-men under whedon, because of bad logan characterisation?
you think me, of all people, would even entertain disregarding that run?
it has to be fair accross the board, is what i'm saying, and i believe the term 'slippery slope' was a pretty accurate description, too...
Originally posted by Creshoskwell thats the thing wasnt he being brainwashed so ofcourse he wouldnt be regretting it
Yeah, I know when he fought omega red in origins.. Are you aware that my favorite character in comics is Jubilee? Do you know when she appeared in Origins?That's right.. Omega red impaled her. I know what happened in the issue. Doesn't change that DURING the heinous acts he was NOT regretting it.
Originally posted by Raoulevery comic already is fair game. every comic is simply a collection of events, the ones in question are already subject to being possible PIS. The comic which spiderman fights Firelord is already discarded.
if we allow this, every comic becomes fair game.
Originally posted by RaoulYou could probably used a better example. AS is I rather liked Logan's portrayal in AXM under whedon's run. His interaction with Armor is good stuff.
what if the wolverine fans decide they don't like astonishing x-men under whedon, because of bad logan characterisation?
Do you have a better example to prove your point? because using Wolverine with someone whom appreciates wolverine doesn't prove your point really.
And people already brush off parts of WWH as PIS so that's not a good example to use either.
Originally posted by RaoulI don't see who would. Wolverine was good in that run. Hell, he survived reentry and impact with the denser planet. Wolverine fans disregarding that just doesn't seem likely.
you think me, of all people, would even entertain disregarding that run?
Originally posted by RaoulIts not is the problem. Each case can be handled individually for reasons which would be discussed. There is nothing that says that you HAVE to disregard the next run that's optioned. No one is holding a gun to your head. Each one has to come up under its own merits.
it has to be fair accross the board, is what i'm saying, and i believe the term 'slippery slope' was a pretty accurate description, too...
This run is PIS for reasons I already described. He doesn't use the skills that he was established to have in his 30+ years of existence in this run. That clearly falls under the PIS rule. So this one clearly is a viable canidate.
So no, slippery slope is a BAD phrase to use.
You like Blue? Next thing you'l be likeing yellow!
Saying things like that is the slippery slope argument...
YOU are committing the slippery slope fallacy by saying that its a slippery slope. THAT is the problem. By saying it opens the gateway to others YOU are commiting the fallacy. Not the people making the proposition.
THAT is the problem.
Originally posted by Starscream M
most PIS examples board reaches consensus on are issues of impossibility, not just because something goes against a characterie...we rule that spiderman beating firelord is PIS because it seems to be impossible for spiderman to do the slightest damage to Firelord
we wouldnt rule something PIS because it was against spiderman's character though
No... that's why we have CIS. haermm
Originally posted by Creshosk
[B]every comic already is fair game. every comic is simply a collection of events, the ones in question are already subject to being possible PIS. The comic which spiderman fights Firelord is already discarded.
one fight, one instance, not an entire run...
You could probably used a better example. AS is I rather liked Logan's portrayal in AXM under whedon's run. His interaction with Armor is good stuff.Do you have a better example to prove your point? because using Wolverine with someone whom appreciates wolverine doesn't prove your point really.
not every logan fan is going to agree with you, and assuming they would is kind of weak, dude...
battlehammer for instance, he hates large parts of logan under whedon, and i doubt he's the only one...
whether you value his opinion or not, he's as entitled as anyone else to have it listened to...
And people already brush off parts of WWH as PIS so that's not a good example to use either.
what about HoM? Messiah Complex? Superman Batman? Mcduffie's JLA/F4? New Avengers/Mighty Avengers?
I don't see who would. Wolverine was good in that run. Hell, he survived reentry and impact with the denser planet. Wolverine fans disregarding that just doesn't seem likely.
i said characterisation, not feats...
Its not is the problem. Each case can be handled individually for reasons which would be discussed. There is nothing that says that you HAVE to disregard the next run that's optioned. No one is holding a gun to your head. Each one has to come up under its own merits.
and who gets to decide which comics are worthy? me? badabing?
This run is PIS for reasons I already described. He doesn't use the skills that he was established to have in his 30+ years of existence in this run. That clearly falls under the PIS rule. So this one clearly is a viable canidate.
then discard the various instances...
So no, slippery slope is a BAD phrase to use.You like Blue? Next thing you'l be likeing yellow!
Saying things like that is the slippery slope argument...
YOU are committing the slippery slope fallacy by saying that its a slippery slope. THAT is the problem. By saying it opens the gateway to others YOU are commiting the fallacy. Not the people making the proposition.
THAT is the problem.
from MY POV, it is a slippery slope... maybe not from yours, and thats fine, honestly, but it's not going to change my mind...
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Anyone here think Wolverine Origins is good? Anyone here think Wolverine Origins hasn't butchered Wolverine's character? Anyone here think a war criminal who willing took part in mass murder, torture and some light genocide is in anyway in line with Wolverine's established character? None of it makes any sense. If Wolverine was any of those... why is he still walking around? He is supposed to be a hero now. Why hasn't anyone tried to apprehend him? Why hasn't he turned him self in (being a man of honor with a guilty conscious), or baring that why hasn't he killed himself samurai style? I don't think anyone would be cool with Red Skull turning all noble and figthing crime, why does Cap or Fury let Wolverine do it? It makes no sense. It should all be disregarded.
It's ironic though...
In your sig, Wolverine states "I ain't no honorable man." haermm
Originally posted by CreshoskNo, "we" can't. The companies decide what's canon. "We" aren't going to take any run on a case by case basis. That will cause chaos and open the door for every poster to complain about every run whether you think so or not. Do you realize how many A list characters are in multiple comics per month? "We" aren't going to have a vote on every individual arc. So Origins is canon until Marvel says different.
You know, I'm tired of people using a false claim as a defense. No, if you do it for one person you don't HAVE to do it for everytone else. no one is holding a gun to your head. its NOT a slippery slope until it happens.Each instance of disregarding a run CAN be handled on an individual basis. So quit equivocating with that damned "Oh its a slippery slope" BS. Its a weak cop out argument that's invalid due to the supposition of necessity being false.
Originally posted by CreshoskWhether you think it will lead to another is not the point. Odds are it will. Raoul and I read the reports and get the complaints in PMs. We know better than any poster on the Vs forum what can and probably will happen. So slippery slope is apt in this case.
I'm just tired of people banding the phrase "slippery slope" around improperly. One does NOT lead to another. To say that it does is to commit the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.Its like saying that legalizing marijuana will lead to a slippery slope of legalizing the other illegal drugs. No, the other harder drugs are different and are more damaging. So its a false claim to say that one will lead to the other if there's no necessitation for it to lead to the other.
"Liking the color blue is a slippery slope to liking the color yellow, because you'll like blue green next, and then just green, and that leads to liking yellow green..."
That's how absurd it looks to me.
Now you're equating comics to drugs? 😖 Bad analogy aside, opening the door to legalize one drug opens the doors for other drugs. Whether any other drugs become legal is another matter. The point is there will be calls for other, harder drugs to be legal. It's happened in other countries and there is a movement in the USA to have all drugs made legal.
That said, if we say Origins is banned from use in the versus forum we'll have PMs and threads like this complaining about the JLA comics, Avengers or any comic which has an appearance of a guest character who isn't in the title. We hear enough complaints about inter-company crossovers. Remember WW Hulk? You take the good with the bad.