Wolverine Origins (MODS please read)

Originally posted by Soljer
Wow. The idea of disregarding an entire run just because you dislike it?

Origins is an abomination. No one argues that fact. However, it remains a canon abomination unless Marvel says otherwise. None of us have to like it, but that doesn't mean we can ignore it.

Yes but it is SUCH an abomination that actually including it in Wolverine's mythos is detrimental to the character. Aside from the name, the character in Wolverine Origins bares little in common with Wolverine character wise. A run this awful, and this out line with how the title character has been portrayed in the past, requires a new forum rolling to deal with its mere existence IMO.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Would ignoring the canonicity of Origins thereby ignore the retcon to Wolverine's immortality?

If it did, it would also ignore the official-ization of his immortality.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Would ignoring the canonicity of Origins thereby ignore the retcon to Wolverine's immortality?

He was retconned back to being not immortal by Guggenhiem anyway.

the thing with removing Origins is it leads down to a slippery slope

alot of things in comics don't seem right with a character or their history or people are unhappy with them, if we remove Origins, then people are gonna push for other things to be removed too...and that can't happen

Originally posted by Soljer
Wow. The idea of disregarding an entire run just because you dislike it?

Origins is an abomination. No one argues that fact. However, it remains a canon abomination unless Marvel says otherwise. None of us have to like it, but that doesn't mean we can ignore it.

New Avengers and AXM for example?

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Would ignoring the canonicity of Origins thereby ignore the retcon to Wolverine's immortality?

"Wolverine is immortal" came from origins.
"Wolverine is no longer immortal" came from origins.

Of course the fact that he's a top popular icon of marvel is what give him his true immortality. Same with Spider man and the hulk etc.

Originally posted by Starscream M
the thing with removing Origins is it leads down to a slippery slope

alot of things in comics don't seem right with a character or their history or people are unhappy with them, if we remove Origins, then people are gonna push for other things to be removed too...and that can't happen

Originally posted by Starscream M
the thing with removing Origins is it leads down to a slippery slope

alot of things in comics don't seem right with a character or their history or people are unhappy with them, if we remove Origins, then people are gonna push for other things to be removed too...and that can't happen

You'll be hard pressed to find something as bad as Origins. Not many stories turn heroes into War Criminals who willing sentence Women and Children in large masses to death... while still trying to be super heroes in the present.

Wolverine Origins is on whole other level of awful characterization, that it pretty much stands alone.

Let's make Soljer non-canon 😠

cres your wrong about that. Immortality thing did not come from origins.

Originally posted by Creshosk

it would also ignore them stating he had it. it was in origins he beat the angel of death and gained that ridiculous explanation to why he always recovers.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes but it is SUCH an abomination that actually including it in Wolverine's mythos is detrimental to the character. Aside from the name, the character in Wolverine Origins bares little in common with Wolverine character wise. A run this awful, and this out line with how the title character has been portrayed in the past, requires a new forum rolling to deal with its mere existence IMO.

Besides the name? And the appearance, costume, powers, weapons.

Marvel says it's Wolverine? It's Wolverine. Marvel says it's 616? It's 616.

Again, we cannot arbitrarily decide to disregard an entire run just because we don't like the way the writer handled some of the characters.

Bad writers exist, bad stories exist, bad runs exist. Write Marvel, get others to drop the title, get it canceled, whatever you feel like doing. Nothing that has happened thus far in Origins, however, has pointed to it being non-canon.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way trying to defend the piece of shit book. Just noting that it is, in fact, canon. Even if you had a *laughs at the ridiculousness of what he is about to type* 'forum ruling' stating that it was inadmissible in debates 'because some posters didn't like it,' it'd STILL be canon.

Originally posted by Creshosk
CAn you tell me how its storyline fits into the timeline of the other books wolverine appears in?

New Avengers and AXM for example?

it would also ignore them stating he had it. it was in origins he beat the angel of death and gained that ridiculous explanation to why he always recovers. That itself was a retcon that weakened some of the fatal attractions arc. Wolverine was dying and it wasn't fighting and beating the angel of death that saved him. It was Jean grey getting tossed out of the plane and Wolverine resisting the fact that he was dying to save his friend.

"Wolverine is immortal" came from origins.
"Wolverine is no longer immortal" came from origins.

Of course the fact that he's a top popular icon of marvel is what give him his true immortality. Same with Spider man and the hulk etc.

It was in Wolverine's normal book actually. 🙁

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You'll be hard pressed to find something as bad as Origins. Not many stories turn heroes into War Criminals who willing sentence Women and Children in large masses to death... while still trying to be super heroes in the present.

Wolverine Origins is on whole other level of awful characterization, that it pretty much stands alone.

Originally posted by Soljer
Besides the name? And the appearance, costume, powers, weapons.

Marvel says it's Wolverine? It's Wolverine. Marvel says it's 616? It's 616.

Again, we cannot arbitrarily decide to disregard an entire run just because we don't like the way the writer handled some of the characters.

Bad writers exist, bad stories exist, bad runs exist. Write Marvel, get others to drop the title, get it canceled, whatever you feel like doing. Nothing that has happened thus far in Origins, however, has pointed to it being non-canon.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way trying to defend the piece of shit book. Just noting that it is, in fact, canon. Even if you had a *laughs at the ridiculousness of what he is about to type* 'forum ruling' stating that it was inadmissible in debates 'because some posters didn't like it,' it'd STILL be canon.

but are you saying that anything canon, no matter how bad it is, or going against a character and their history, (perhaps due to a complete shit writer knowing little about the character) MUSt be accepted as canon for the character?

Originally posted by Soljer
Besides the name? And the appearance, costume, powers, weapons.

Marvel says it's Wolverine? It's Wolverine. Marvel says it's 616? It's 616.

Again, we cannot arbitrarily decide to disregard an entire run just because we don't like the way the writer handled some of the characters.

Bad writers exist, bad stories exist, bad runs exist. Write Marvel, get others to drop the title, get it canceled, whatever you feel like doing. Nothing that has happened thus far in Origins, however, has pointed to it being non-canon.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way trying to defend the piece of shit book. Just noting that it is, in fact, canon. Even if you had a *laughs at the ridiculousness of what he is about to type* 'forum ruling' stating that it was inadmissible in debates 'because some posters didn't like it,' it'd STILL be canon.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Im not clear on origins since I haven't read alot of it, but isn't it before Wolverine officially becomes a 'hero'? so it isnt that contradictory....nobody ever claimed logan was always an angel.

your stated a number of times you have read all of origins.........

now the truth comes out.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Im not clear on origins since I haven't read alot of it, but isn't it before Wolverine officially becomes a 'hero'? so it isnt that contradictory....nobody ever claimed logan was always an angel.

Some of it was, not anymore.

Originally posted by Soljer
Besides the name? And the appearance, costume, powers, weapons.

Marvel says it's Wolverine? It's Wolverine. Marvel says it's 616? It's 616.

Again, we cannot arbitrarily decide to disregard an entire run just because we don't like the way the writer handled some of the characters.

Bad writers exist, bad stories exist, bad runs exist. Write Marvel, get others to drop the title, get it canceled, whatever you feel like doing. Nothing that has happened thus far in Origins, however, has pointed to it being non-canon.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way trying to defend the piece of shit book. Just noting that it is, in fact, canon. Even if you had a *laughs at the ridiculousness of what he is about to type* 'forum ruling' stating that it was inadmissible in debates 'because some posters didn't like it,' it'd STILL be canon.

Why can't we make that decision? We decided to disregard certain feats because of their ridiculousness. They still technically happened, we just ignore them. We can't we do the same with Origins?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Prove that Marvel said it was 616. 🙂

It ties into to Wolverine's main title, which ties into X-Men. It is also crossing over with X-Men Legacy.

It is 616 canon... but we should write it off.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol I love how you can lie over and over again..........

your stated a number of times you have read all of origins.........

now the truth comes out.