Bob Lee Swagger versus Batman

Originally posted by Robtard
Deadshot. He has a "never miss" clause. Anything else you need answered?

Edit: Also Deathstroke. The greatest assassin in the DC universe.

Either of these guys make Swagger look like a guy in bootcamp.

Originally posted by Scythe
He wouldn't stomp his face dead, he'd wipe his ass with Swagger while he's preoccupied with the Batmobile heading straight toward him, haha.

I think we have a winner, this scenerio fails to show what Swagger would do if he's faced with the Batmobile gunning straight toward him and Batman silently sneaking up on him.

And it's went from a one on one to a two on one battle? Bob Lee versus Batman AND 5 tons of death? Hardly seems fair.

I can't read any more of this, I made it to page 11 before my lungs almost collapsed on me. RJ, I can't believe this, you should have backed down after the first page. Not only did Scythe start by stating perfectly why Batman would win, you 'held your ground' until both Bardock and Alpha Centurai also came to join in, and quite frankly, trounce your arguments. I think the most perfect part of this thread was Bardock's illustration of you and AC's 'boxer vs ordinary man' fight. That picture literally made me laugh until I cried.

I'm surprised you're even still now trying to prove Swagger's victory. It just won't happen. An elite sniper could not take down Batman. I'm not a Batman fan, but I've seen the films, and I've seen Shooter. Swagger hasn't got a hope to escape his capture.

I'm going to read the next 11 pages now. Hopefully will be as good as the first.

Originally posted by Placidity
Cool.

No thermal vision of any sort. Invisible Batmobile takes the win thanks.

And btw, he is not an expert at counter-intel, get that in your head. We're going by whats in the movie, not where you think the scriptwriters made a screw-up and thats your excuse.

Its like saying: yeah the guy who says it in the movie has no idea what he is talking about, but *thats what he was trying to say*.

Whats in the movie is that he is trained in counter intel, so.......he is trained in counter intel.

It is said in the movie, therefore it is valid, Swagger has counter intel training. Indo Story.

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
I can't read any more of this, I made it to page 11 before my lungs almost collapsed on me. RJ, I can't believe this, you should have backed down after the first page. Not only did Scythe start by stating perfectly why Batman would win, you 'held your ground' until both Bardock and Alpha Centurai also came to join in, and quite frankly, trounce your arguments. I think the most perfect part of this thread was Bardock's illustration of you and AC's 'boxer vs ordinary man' fight. That picture literally made me laugh until I cried.

I'm surprised you're even still now trying to prove Swagger's victory. It just won't happen. An elite sniper could not take down Batman. I'm not a Batman fan, but I've seen the films, and I've seen Shooter. Swagger hasn't got a hope to escape his capture.

I'm going to read the next 11 pages now. Hopefully will be as good as the first.

Also that if Swagger opens up on him with an assault rifle, Batman will either dodge or shrug off the bullets as if they were nothing.

I've really given up trying to show that Swagger would win, but when someone claims that a man, which Batman is, can dodge bullets, and when they turn the thread around and pit Swagger versus the Batmobile insted of Batman, how is that fair?

AC preaches on about fairness and even playing fields, but what the hell with a tank against a man? Is that fair?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
My biggest issue here is that everyone thinks Batman will simply sneak up on him, that there is no way Swagger will see him coming.

Also that if Swagger opens up on him with an assault rifle, Batman will either dodge or shrug off the bullets as if they were nothing.

I've really given up trying to show that Swagger would win, but when someone claims that a man, which Batman is, can dodge bullets, and when they turn the thread around and pit Swagger versus the Batmobile insted of Batman, how is that fair?

AC preaches on about fairness and even playing fields, but what the hell with a tank against a man? Is that fair?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Gunnery Sergeant Bob Lee Swagger from the movie "Shooter", and the novels written by Stephen Hunter Versus Batman, any of the movie versions.

Same storyline as the movie Shooter, except it takes place in Gotham. Bob Lee Swagger is framed for shooting the Ethiopian archbishop, and is on the run trying to clear his name, and the Bat is called upon to bring him to justice.

Swagger escapes Gotham to his home state of Arkansas, and decides to make a stand there. He arms himself with a .50 caliber sniper rifle, H&K G36 assault rifle, as well as two .45 automatics as sidearms. He also has all the standard sniper gear: Ghille suits, claymores, the works.

Swagger positions himself atop a hill with a long twisting road as the only way to it's top as the Bat comes into the view, in the Batmobile, a thousand yards away, determined to bring him to justice.

I know, the Bat is the Bat, and Swagger is just another guy, but do your research on Swagger before rushing to judgement on this matchup.

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
I know what fair is, and I've seen it plenty in most people's posts here. What is NOT fairness is this: A blatantly one-sided match where you pit an elite sniper with about 5 times as much equipment than he can carry in his own perfect environment against Batman at his best. However, through all this, Scythe, Bardock and AC have all thought of numerous viable ways Batman could win, through all the bias. And yet, you stay stuck there, because, well, of course... "He's no ordinary man – he's Swagger!"

And after long thought I have concluded that Batman can probably avoid the sniper fire due to the slow rate of fire of the .50 cal (Swagger can be seen manually chambering a round when he is fighting the chopper), can probably dodge the bolt action sniper rifle fire (for the same reason), maybe even the pistol, but the full auto fire of the assault rifle?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, we arent going by that anymore, are we?

And after long thought I have concluded that Batman can probably avoid the sniper fire due to the slow rate of fire of the .50 cal (Swagger can be seen manually chambering a round when he is fighting the chopper), can probably dodge the bolt action sniper rifle fire (for the same reason), maybe even the pistol, but the full auto fire of the assault rifle?

Also, you dodged my point of Swagger having about 5 times much equipment than he could carry. If he's on the run, he couldn't carry a ghillie suit, large bolt-action sniper rifle, large set of claymores, assault rifle, and pistols, could he?

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
Why would a ninja-trained master of martial arts let himself be exposed to direct assault rifle gunfire? Batman is smart as well as skilled, you know. The second Batman is past the sniper fire in the forest, Swagger as good as caught. He wouldn't see him coming, especially if this scenario is at night time. And don't just say "he has thermal goggles", please...

Also, you dodged my point of Swagger having about 5 times much equipment than he could carry. If he's on the run, he couldn't carry a ghillie suit, large bolt-action sniper rifle, large set of claymores, assault rifle, and pistols, could he?

There are no more thermal goggles, it's just what they are SHOWN using in the movies. This was agreed upon a few pages back.

The scenario still stands though.

Whats to keep Swagger from leaving himself an escape route that leads to an extremely wide open area where he can see Batman coming from a good distance away?

Seems that anyone on the run from Batman isn't going to put themselves in a situation where they are toast. Lets say the sniper fire fails, and Batman is zigzagging through the dense cover of the forest. Bob Lee is tracking him, but Batman is too fast, hiding behind trees before Swagger can get a shot off. I would wager Swagger would realize this while Batman is a good distance away, and retreat to a fallback position where the element of surprise is gone, where the area is flat in all directions for twenty or thirty yards, no trees or cover whatsoever.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Too bad they weren't in the movies.

There's no reason to believe that Batman in the film isn't like the Batman of the comics. But if you're going to take the head-in-the-sand approach as usual, Batman defeated scores and scores of LOS ninja along with Raj Al Ghul, who are all expertly trained in assassination, combat, stealth, subterfuge etc. etc. etc.

I assume you're only using Swagger from the film then, did he fire a .50 cal at a small fast moving target? If not, then he'd never hit an evasive Batman in the forest with it, as you know those guns aren't easily moved nor fired 'from the hip' so to speak.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, you really need to go back and read what has transpired here.

There are no more thermal goggles, it's just what they are SHOWN using in the movies. This was agreed upon a few pages back.

The scenario still stands though.

Whats to keep Swagger from leaving himself an escape route that leads to an extremely wide open area where he can see Batman coming from a good distance away?

Seems that anyone on the run from Batman isn't going to put themselves in a situation where they are toast. Lets say the sniper fire fails, and Batman is zigzagging through the dense cover of the forest. Bob Lee is tracking him, but Batman is too fast, hiding behind trees before Swagger can get a shot off. I would wager Swagger would realize this while Batman is a good distance away, and retreat to a fallback position where the element of surprise is gone, where the area is flat in all directions for twenty or thirty yards, no trees or cover whatsoever.

Also, what the hell are the chances of total flatlands so close to a hill overlooking a forest? You're just pulling at straws. And if Swaggers is so valiantly legging it away so he can shoot Batman from a distance, what's stopping Batman from just coming up behind him and disabling him? Swagger hasn't got enhanced speed, unlike Batman. Even in this extra enhanced scenario, Batman now has even more chance of winning this match.

And I really want to know this, stop ignoring it every time:
My point of Swagger having about 5 times much equipment than he could carry. If he's on the run, he couldn't carry a ghillie suit, large bolt-action sniper rifle, large set of claymores, assault rifle, and pistols, could he?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whats to keep Swagger from leaving himself an escape route that leads to an extremely wide open area where he can see Batman coming from a good distance away?

Seems that anyone on the run from Batman isn't going to put themselves in a situation where they are toast. Lets say the sniper fire fails, and Batman is zigzagging through the dense cover of the forest. Bob Lee is tracking him, but Batman is too fast, hiding behind trees before Swagger can get a shot off. I would wager Swagger would realize this while Batman is a good distance away, and retreat to a fallback position where the element of surprise is gone, where the area is flat in all directions for twenty or thirty yards, no trees or cover whatsoever.

Now you're moving the goal post. Adding to the scenario in a vain attempt to have the guy you want to win, win.

I could very well say, that there isn't this perfect fallback behind Swagger where it's conveniently clear of trees and he has perfect visuals all around and it's just more forest. You're rediculous.

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
I'm on page 17 so far, and it hasn't been said that thermal goggles have been ruled out.

Also, what the hell are the chances of total flatlands so close to a hill overlooking a forest? You're just pulling at straws. And if Swaggers is so valiantly legging it away so he can shoot Batman from a distance, what's stopping Batman from just coming up behind him and disabling him? Swagger hasn't got enhanced speed, unlike Batman. Even in this extra enhanced scenario, Batman now has even more chance of winning this match.

And I really want to know this, stop ignoring it every time:
My point of Swagger having about 5 times much equipment than he could carry. If he's on the run, he couldn't carry a ghillie suit, large bolt-action sniper rifle, large set of claymores, assault rifle, and pistols, could he?

Batman has enhanced speed? Explain that. You mean he is just unnaturally fast?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Arkansas and Texas (where I live) have similar terrains, Acres and acres of woods, then large expanses of flatlands. Arkansas, while having mountains and a more rugged terrain, is essentially the same as Texas. Large wooded ares, then open expanses. It's not that hard to assume Swagger would leave himself an out, an area to make a final stand.

Batman has enhanced speed? Explain that. You mean he is just unnaturally fast?

So you know for fact that Swagger could trek to some flatlands before a highly trained and light armoured athlete could catch up with him and diable him? That's rediculous. He wouldn't make it a matter of metres before Batman got to him.

And seriously, answer my first point. You've avoided it every single time. I'm going to keep posting it until you answer it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Now you're moving the goal post. Adding to the scenario in a vain attempt to have the guy you want to win, win.

I could very well say, that there isn't this perfect fallback behind Swagger where it's conveniently clear of trees and he has perfect visuals all around and it's just more forest. You're rediculous.

I am at the point now where I could care less, but I am still amazed that people think Batman would be able to evade fill auto machine gun fire. THATS ridiculous.

Here's a good topographical map of Arkansas:

http://www.arkansas-map.org/regional.htm

It shows mountain areas, some rough terrain, and LOTS of flatlands.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The Batmobile is not invisible, thank you very much.

"Stealth Mode" - Whatever, point is, Swagger won't see him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Whats in the movie is that he is trained in counter intel, so.......he is trained in counter intel.

Proof?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

It is said in the movie, therefore it is valid, Swagger has counter intel training. Indo Story.

Said by someone who doesn't even know what Counter-intel is?

So if Joker/Gordon/Alfred said Batman is an idiot, then he is an idiot?

Are you an idiot? Yes. Indo Story.

The answer is simple, the scenario was set so Swagger would win, it lacked all objectivity. From Swagger's equipment and setting to Batman's uncharacteristic methods and low-rent mobile.

Edit: In response to Grey Ghost's question.

Originally posted by The Grey Fox
"I really want to know this, stop ignoring it every time:
My point of Swagger having about 5 times much equipment than he could carry. If he's on the run, he couldn't carry a ghillie suit, large bolt-action sniper rifle, large set of claymores, assault rifle, and pistols, could he?"

So you know for fact that Swagger could trek to some flatlands before a highly trained and light armoured athlete could catch up with him and diable him? That's rediculous. He wouldn't make it a matter of metres before Batman got to him.

And seriously, answer my first point. You've avoided it every single time. I'm going to keep posting it until you answer it.

Swagger escapes Gotham, escapes the authorities, THEN Batman goes after him. Batman isn't enlisted to capture him until Swagger has time to prepare.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I am at the point now where I could care less, but I am still amazed that people think Batman would be able to evade fill auto machine gun fire. THATS ridiculous.

Here's a good topographical map of Arkansas:

http://www.arkansas-map.org/regional.htm

It shows mountain areas, some rough terrain, and LOTS of flatlands.

Because you've exhausted every approach to Swagger winning. I believe Batman did evade machine gun fire in the movies.

Originally posted by Placidity
"Stealth Mode" - Whatever, point is, Swagger won't see him.

Proof?

Said by someone who doesn't even know what Counter-intel is?

So if Joker/Gordon/Alfred said Batman is an idiot, then he is an idiot?

Are you an idiot? Yes. Indo Story.