Star Wars: The Old Republic [KOTOR MMO]

Started by Morridini64 pages

Regarding the Crew skills, I like the idea the way it has been described so far, the possibility to delegate responsibilities and tasks to your slaves sounds like a way to much more deeply delve into the SW world.

Originally posted by Peach
It just seems like a poor mechanic for an MMO. AI NPCs that can work with you - sure, that's not a big deal. GW used that to good effect, since everything was instanced. Letting them go do their own things...I don't see the point or how that will work out well.

Out of curiosity, what about it turns you off? It's not a traditional MMO mechanic, sure, but I thought a lot of our gripes were that the game embraced too many generic MMO concepts. 😛

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Out of curiosity, what about it turns you off? It's not a traditional MMO mechanic, sure, but I thought a lot of our gripes were that the game embraced too many generic MMO concepts. 😛

Well, personally, I think it's bad form to blatantly copy someone else's concept, for one thing. And sending minions off for resources and things while you focus on the main story is a rather notable key AC: Brotherhood concept.

Second, it just doesn't seem to sit right with the genre style. The idea works as intended with AC:B because you can't travel to those other cities. The missions you send acolytes on are inaccessible to the player. But in an MMO, the entirety of the world ought to be accessible, at least eventually. And if you can personally roam the entire world and do whatever you want... why have the game do it for you? World traversal and grinding skills is what MMOs do, and "crew skills" makes the game play itself in that regard.

Meanwhile, on those 23-hour builds, what do you do if that's the only mission you've got at the moment? Futz around aimlessly looking for something to do? Not play? Simply be bored? It just doesn't seem quite well-thought-out.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
[Bgrinding skills is what MMOs do[/B]

You can not in any way use that as an argument for what an MMO should contain, grinding is some of the worst elements in gaming, and is something lazy developers and should be shunned as much as possible.

And you talk about what to do while your crew is doing missions, why the hell would you send someone off to do missions for you if you have nothing else to do? The point is to use it if you are loaded with quests, and one of them might be one you consider boring.

Originally posted by Morridini
You can not in any way use that as an argument for what an MMO should contain, grinding is some of the worst elements in gaming, and is something lazy developers and should be shunned as much as possible.

And you talk about what to do while your crew is doing missions, why the hell would you send someone off to do missions for you if you have nothing else to do? The point is to use it if you are loaded with quests, and one of them might be one you consider boring.


I hate grind as much as anyone else, but almost all MMOs use it to extend their length and therefore, apparent quality. The grind is the hallmark of the genre. The illusion of progress, however slow, is what keeps the gamer coming back each day and buying that next month of subscription. I'm speaking as a designer here, not a gamer. So yes, as a concept that is core to the traditional MMO style TOR seems to be shooting for, I can most certainly say that taking the game out of the player's hands for any length of time is a dangerous move for the success of the game.

And I was referring to this:

You don't have to be online to do it. Even if you are busy and you can't come in for a few days, it is going to make sense to log in for five minutes, go through your stuff, put everyone on 23 hour missions or 23 hour crafting pieces, and then sending them out.

The obvious sentiment here is that you let the game do these for you when you're not going to be able to play, but... what happens when you've run out your mission list and all you have left is a handful of day-long crafting quests? The game is essentially telling you to hand back the controller and do something else while it plays itself. This is bad design for a genre where the entire point is to keep players playing (and spending) for as long as possible, ideally, continuously throughout the game's life.

I am not entirely sure why you are so hostile to this, GK. They aren't completing YOUR quests for you. It's all just additional 'factory' content- you can set your guys on gathering stuff, be that literal stuff like resources or conceptual stuff like Light Side points. You are not denying yourself any useful gameplay activity from it.

This can be justified as a good idea on several levels- first, it stops mining being a matter of standing in the same place for hours clicking a 'gather' button. Second, as you have to choose how to specialise your crew, it maintains the idea that different people can craft out different things. Third, games like Monster Hunter have shown that players do like having a factory-style system. Fourth... Facebook games show very strongly that setting something on a 20 hour countdown to get goodies is an addictive quality that brings in punters- people become very keen to log in and see what goodies they have.

I think we may find this one bounces well for Bioware. If all they have cut out is the tedium of mining or crafting then I'm all for it.

So yes, as a concept that is core to the traditional MMO style TOR seems to be shooting for, I can most certainly say that taking the game out of the player's hands for any length of time is a dangerous move for the success of the game.

I was under the impression that TOR was trying to be anything but the traditional MMO, correct me if I'm wrong.

And I think you're missing the point.

What are you supposed to do when you've completed all of the missions/quests available to you for the moment, and you have your NPCs out doing all of the grindy fluffwork that's available?

Personally, I think that if they're trying to circumvent the grind of mining and crafting, do so by removing the mechanic entirely, not by having the game do it for you.

Originally posted by NCRotCA
I was under the impression that TOR was trying to be anything but the traditional MMO, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah...no. This is the first 'non-traditional MMO' thing they've done; in all other respects it's just WoW reskinned as SW.

Originally posted by Peach
And I think you're missing the point.

What are you supposed to do when you've completed all of the missions/quests available to you for the moment, and you have your NPCs out doing all of the grindy fluffwork that's available?

Personally, I think that if they're trying to circumvent the grind of mining and crafting, do so by removing the mechanic entirely, not by having the game do it for you.

Yeah...no. This is the first 'non-traditional MMO' thing they've done; in all other respects it's just WoW reskinned as SW.


This, pretty much. I'm all for removing concepts that don't work quite right, but then I'd be much happier if TOR were nothing like WoW. It's the fact that what they're changing simply isn't enough. And ideas like this go directly against what makes traditional MMOs work (which is what this is, NCRotCA, to the core), and how I've always been told you need to treat gamers as a designer. Everything I know about game-gamer interaction tells me it won't pan out like BioWare's thinking.

Well, everything from my point of view says it will probably go rather well. It's not exactly a huge deal but as a means of improving the way crafting is done, it's a good idea.

Removing mining/crafting entirely- THAT would be the huge mistake. These are exceptionally popular game areas.

Originally posted by Peach
Yeah...no. This is the first 'non-traditional MMO' thing they've done; in all other respects it's just WoW reskinned as SW.

I don't think that is entirely fair.

Whilst I have been vocally critical of how the base combat mechanic seems to be a straight WoW style, there is a lot about the overall game experience that is novel.

Yeah, the fact that their main focus, from what I remember, appears to be to create an MMO experience that's driven by an expansive, choice determined storyline alone seems to seperate it heavily from the traditional MMO which are generally driven purely by gameplay progression.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
And sending minions off for resources and things while you focus on the main story is a rather notable key AC: Brotherhood concept.

To be fair, AC Brotherhood didn't invent that concept. They just did it really well.

YouTube video Another trailer.

Oh my god.

This game looks like shit.

It doesn't exactly get your pulse racing, does it? Those animations are particularly stiff.

...seriously? Wow. That looks...terrible.

It does, going to get DC Universe Online instead, that looks awesome.

I don't think it looks particularly great but in what way does it look bad exactly?

Anyone else feel that the Yoda-creature looked a lot like the Goblins in WoW in that scene?