Originally posted by id369
You don’t understand, the rule there is no outside involvement of any kind, in the middle of ones match.Now here is you contradicting statement, and the reason why I asked you to stay off my match.
I wasn't trying to sway the judges at all. - Digi
Ok….
I was trying to provide all relevant information to delph before he made his decision - Digi
This is an outside opinion, meant to sway a judges vote. IIRC, Dleph acts as week 8 judge, and by defector is the judge in these matters.Leo needs to come up with reasons, along with evidence to defend its stance. Leo and Scoob, not Digi.
We can all offer our opinions on rulings. They affect the entire tourney, and all its participants. Smurph and Charlotte did the same thing above. Are you going to yell at them too?
The only possible legit gripe you could've had was that it was in your match instead of this thread. But now, as I stated before, it's been transferred to this thread, so you have nothing to stand on.
You'd do well to respect matches equally as much, not just when the ruling pertains to yourself.
Originally posted by id369Incorrect, and you continue to dodge the main point.
Leo needs to come up with reasons, along with evidence to defend its stance. Leo and Scoob, not Digi.
If there's an issue concerning legality, all members are affected. We've already had tourney strategies (one of Digi's own tactics, in fact) that were pointed out to be illegal by outside members, and then disqualified by Delph.
At this point, that's what's most likely gonna happen here.
Best for you to regroup and use the rest of your prep.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
We can all offer our opinions on rulings. They affect the entire tourney, and all its participants. Smurph and Charlotte did the same thing above. Are you going to yell at them too?The only possible legit gripe you could've had was that it was in your match instead of this thread. But now, as I stated before, it's been transferred to this thread, so you have nothing to stand on.
You'd do well to respect matches equally as much, not just when the ruling pertains to yourself.
I do not look out B-Dub/Smurph. I look out for Id/Kandy.
Oh and I do respect other ppl’s matches.
Have you ever seen me interfere in some one else’s match in any shape or form?
Originally posted by Cavalier
Incorrect, and you continue to dodge the main point.If there's an issue concerning legality, all members are affected. We've already had tourney strategies (one of Digi's own tactics, in fact) that were pointed out to be illegal by outside members, and then disqualified by Delph.
At this point, that's what's most likely gonna happen here.
Best for you to regroup and use the rest of your prep.
Originally posted by id369
I do not look out B-Dub/Smurph. I look out for Id/Kandy.Oh and I do respect other ppl’s matches.
Have you ever seen me interfere in some one else’s match in any shape or form?
lol
I'm not talking about defending others. I'm talking about having consistent rulings for everyone. If delph rules in your favor, it's extending a courtesy to you that other teams were not. That compromises the integrity of the tourney, imo. If we see inconsistencies, are you saying we should say nothing?
I also have a PM in to Bada to transfer my comment from page 1 to this thread, so as to eliminate it from your match and move it here. It's not an attempt to interfere (as before, you're trying to make it personal when it isn't). It's an attempt to keep rulings legal and consistent. And, for the 3rd time, now that everything is in this thread, not your match, you have no legitimate objections to my opinion on the ruling, nor the others who have expressed their opinions on the match.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I think Id's only problem was non-contestants discussing issues in a debate thread rather than the discussion thread
Originally posted by DigiMark007
lolI'm not talking about defending others. I'm talking about having consistent rulings for everyone. If delph rules in your favor, it's extending a courtesy to you that other teams were not. That compromises the integrity of the tourney, imo. If we see inconsistencies, are you saying we should say nothing?
I also have a PM in to Bada to transfer my comment from page 1 to this thread, so as to eliminate it from your match and move it here. It's not an attempt to interfere (as before, you're trying to make it personal when it isn't). It's an attempt to keep rulings legal and consistent. And, for the 3rd time, now that everything is in this thread, not your match, you have no legitimate objections to my opinion on the ruling, nor the others who have expressed their opinions on the match.
Actually I am against moving anything beyond your post from my thread. If anything needs to be discussed, it can be viewed from my match. You cant miss its stickied.
Oh I see, consistent ruling. You don’t mind if I post all the ruling so far?
Originally posted by id369
Actually I am against moving anything beyond your post from my thread.
That's fine. Nothing else but my post is being transferred. I never said otherwise.
Originally posted by id369
Oh I see, consistent ruling. You don’t mind if I post all the ruling so far?
Not at all, go right ahead. You might have a hard time finding them all, but a few of them are fairly well-known, like the Lex/Blue Boy rulings that are very similar to your situation.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I think Id's only problem was non-contestants discussing issues in a debate thread rather than the discussion thread
Which has been rectified, or will be shortly once Bada gets my PM. So nothing else should be an issue.
Originally posted by id369😐
I am not dodging the main point. The point is to be discussed here. Not in the middle of the match.
I'm trying to discuss the point here. I have been trying for the past two posts. Your only response is to ***** about Digi posting in your match, as if that somehow effects the outcome of your match or of this ruling in any way, shape or form.
Again, you insist on not actually responding to anything said, but equally insist on complaining about something irrelevant.
It seems like you know the move is illegal, we all know the move is illegal, and Delph should recognize the move for being illegal. Your only response to this is to logically (lolz) ignore it, and proceed to whine about Digi's post.
Originally posted by Cavalier
😐I'm trying to discuss the point here. I have been trying for the past two posts. Your only response is to ***** about Digi posting in your match, as if that somehow effects the outcome of your match or of this ruling in any way, shape or form.
Again, you insist on not actually responding to anything said, but equally insist on complaining about something irrelevant.
It seems like you know the move is illegal, we all know the move is illegal, and Delph should recognize the move for being illegal. Your only response to this is to logically (lolz) ignore it, and proceed to whine about Digi's post.
Oh ok, I can not keep attention to the both of you. You come in, when I am discussing a different topic with Digi. My BAD.
I am in your face right NOW. What’s illegal about it?
Originally posted by Cavalierid posted some PMs where Delph seemingly okayed the plan
we all know the move is illegal, and Delph should recognize the move for being illegal.
and Delph seemed to realize the implications because he said something to the effect of "this strategy will win you the match"
so I'm not sure what exactly led to the different rulings Delph had for Id's plan and your boy blue plan...but apparently there was something different for Delph to reach a different conclusion...or maybe Delph misunderstood...but he seemed to understand how powerful Id's plan was with his comment. So we prob need Delph to clear this issue up.
Originally posted by id369k.
Oh ok, I can not keep attention to the both of you. You come in, when I am discussing a different topic with Digi. My BAD.I am in your face right NOW. What’s illegal about it?
It's illegal because it's damn near identical to the Boy Blue plan.
Boy Blue was supposed to go to his prep site and grab some powerful magical items. I only drafted him at 5 points, though.
It was illegal for two reasons, one of which was the fact that I didn't draft that stuff, and it would be like drafting Tony Stark for 5 points and going off to grab an Ironman suit during prep (which I was assured was illegal).
A similar point was brought up with Lex Luthor, and how you couldn't draft him for 5 or 10 points, then expect to be able to grab some of his super powered armor, because you didn't draft that level of power.
According to Leo, it's also illegal because you've drafted a being that's clearly beyond 15 points in power.
Originally posted by DigiMark007right that is a good point
PMs have a tendency to be very one-sided in their arguments from the participant.
I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be a case of switcheroo where Id tells Delph he's doing something normal and then pulls out a galaxy busting attack
It seems that Delph was aware of the 'galaxy busting' nature of Id's plan and STILL okayed it
Id, could you repost those PMs here for further examination?
Originally posted by Cavalier
k.It's illegal because it's damn near identical to the Boy Blue plan.
Boy Blue was supposed to go to his prep site and grab some powerful magical items. I only drafted him at 5 points, though.
It was illegal for two reasons, one of which was the fact that I didn't draft that stuff, and it would be like drafting Tony Stark for 5 points and going off to grab an Ironman suit during prep (which I was assured was illegal).
A similar point was brought up with Lex Luthor, and how you couldn't draft him for 5 or 10 points, then expect to be able to grab some of his super powered armor, because you didn't draft that level of power.
According to Leo, it's also illegal because you've drafted a being that's clearly beyond 15 points in power.
The Crown resides in the Black Tower.
We did not summon characters. We did not bring in the Crown into the battlefield. Cog himself has no Hell Spawn powers, they were removed long ago. Cog did not power up when he died, and remained in hell. Cog has no powers of his own for him to claim.
Do you see the differences?
Originally posted by id369The only thing within that hodgepodge of points that pertains to my post (sans the last line, as Leo's gripe is not my gripe) is the second: "We did not bring in the Crown into the battlefield.".
The Crown resides in the Black Tower.We did not summon characters. We did not bring in the Crown into the battlefield. Cog himself has no Hell Spawn powers, they were removed long ago. Cog did not power up when he died, and remained in hell. Cog has no powers of his own for him to claim.
Do you see the differences?
But you are bringing the power of the Crown onto the battlefield. Juggernaut doesn't need to bring Cyttorak's gem onto the battlefield to be able to be the Juggernaut.
And I don't see how this is relevant to the idea of drafting a character only to become much more powerful anyways.
Originally posted by Cavalier
The only thing within that hodgepodge of points that pertains to my post (sans the last line, as Leo's gripe is not my gripe) is the second: "We did not bring in the Crown into the battlefield.".But you are bringing the power of the Crown onto the battlefield. Juggernaut doesn't need to bring Cyttorak's gem onto the battlefield to be able to be the Juggernaut.
And I don't see how this is relevant to the idea of drafting a character only to become much more powerful anyways.
But Smurph I asked, may I empower my character through the crown. And Delph said yes.
Note: Since the birth of the Crown, and until the comic states other wise. The Crown resides The Black Tower.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Rule Clarification on the weapon ruling:The tech cap is that you can not create and bring any weapon with a payload greater than an independently powered Ironman into combat. Therefore, the answer I gave to Smurph is in fact correct. However, the question was asked with a bit of ambiguity (and late at night, so I didn't provide a full answer due to fatigue). In relation to the attack posed in this thread by Leo/Scoob, which is a result of meshing various standard implements and characters powers to achieve said results, the attack is in fact legal. There is no cap on meshing. If the weapon itself had been created with said power during prep it would in fact be illegal. Sorry for any confusion.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Lex's armor would be illegal for use since Lex was drafted at 10 pts (akin to drafting Tony Stark without the Ironman Armor for 10 pts then bringing the suit).An armored Lex would be equal to Ironman and cost 30 pts. Charlotte drafted him at 10 pts (unequipped) and therefore would not have access to the armor.
Sorry Charlotte, I have to be consistent.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Good morning/afternoon Ladies.Just to clarify, Combat Rule #6 clearly states that characters which are members of teams and utilize team bases as prep sites will only have access to their own equipment and not that of their teammates. Using Hawkman's mase is illegal per rule.
Originally posted by Cavalier
The intention was actually to not bring the genie into the fight, but to have him amp us.I'm just remembering as I type this though that Scoob and Leo weren't allowed to summon S'ym... so I can understand if the genie isn't allowed. Not a big deal, he was an afterthought.
As for Blue, that's actually not illegal. Also not at all pertinent to the fight, but entirely legal, as I'll explain in my post.
Originally posted by illadelph12
It's illegal Smurph. I already informed you of that on MSN the other night when you asked me...
No outside assistance took place, no one was summoned.
Originally posted by illadelph12
After a conversation with Smurph last night, numerous PMs from Fangirl pertaining to all of the disputed rule infractions on both sides, and then reading through the thread and reviewing all of the scans, I've come to these rulings:1. By my interpretation of the scans, in the initial story where the Miracle Machine (Thought Machine) is presented, it is stated on panel that the machine was given as a gift to the Legion by their friends the Controllers (stated on panel). On the same page Brainiac and Superboy agree it would be best keep the machine locked up out of reach of [b]mankind
until a point where humans could safely and wisely use the machine. Superboy says "The machine will remain sealed in this cube of inertron until mankind is ready to use it wisely".Fast forward to a later story in which a thief, Pares, has threatened to steal the machine from the Legion, and Lightning Lad suggests that the machine is too dangerous and must be destroyed. Cosmic Boy, the leader of the Legion, in an argument against Lightning Lad's suggestion, states that the machine was entrusted to the Legion by the Controllers, and that the machine had been used several times to save the Legion, and that it's the Legion's duty to safeguard the machine until humanity is ready. It's then put up to a vote whether to destroy the machine so it won't be stolen, or to simply protect it. The majority vote is to destroy the machine to avoid it's theft, so it is removed from it's Inertron encasement, and Superboy and Ultraboy attempt to smash it with super punches only to find out the machine is indestructible. They then seal it back again in Inertron and resign to the option of simply defending it (since they can't destroy it). After this point, as also depicted in the scans provided, the Legion are in trouble with a giant monster Pares has unleashed, and Superboy, still at Legion HQ, inadvertantly uses the miracle machine to capture Pares and save Ultraboy's life. Phantom Girl then states that the Legion should have just used the machine to capture Pares in the first place since it wound up being used to save the day anyway (which would have been common sense, but this is a Pre-Crisis storyline, afterall), to which Brainiac retorts that that is in fact the the ultimate danger of the miracle machine; using it would result in the Legion becoming lazy due to being able to simply wish their problems away.
All of these events and statements on panel lead me to interpret that, per the depicted usage of the machine, and the stated off panel multiple uses of the machine by the Legion (per the Leader of the team), the initial locking up of the machine in the Inertron Cube wasn't the permanent prohibition of the machines use. It was stated by Superboy that they wanted to keep the machine out of the hands of mankind until they were ready to use it wisely, but then it was stated by Cosmic Boy in a later story that the Legion had used the machine several times to save the day subsequent to Superboy's comment in the initial appearance of the machine. To me that would clearly show that there's a gap in the scans between the initial appearance of the machine and Superboy's statements and the subsequent stories in which the machine is used, and since the statements and on panel occurences seemingly contradict eachother, I'd have to judge in favor of the most recent of the scans provided in relation to the Miracle machine, which was Cosmic Boy's statement that the machine had been used several times by the Legion, which kind of nullifies the initial contention that the device was prohibited and never used.
In that regard, I'd have to rule in favor of Fangirl.
2. Here's where things get tricky. B-Dub then states that the miracle machine was later eaten by Matter-Eater Lad in a later storyline and the machine no longer exists. In drafting Pre-Crisis Brainiac, Fangirl did not state an era specific version of Brainiac which she would be using (for example, Id369's drafting of Classic New Mutants/X-Force Era Cable, and then changing to current depowered Cable). Due to this, Fangirl would in fact have the last on panel incarnation of Pre-Crisis Brainiac and the Pre-Crisis Legion of Superheroes Headquarters. If in fact the Miracle Machine was destroyed on panel, this latest version of Brainiac would not be able to use the machine as it would no longer exist.
My ruling on this is that in lieu of a scan of the machine being destroyed on panel, my prior ruling stands. However, if on panel evidence is provided of the destruction of the miracle machine, the machine would be voided from Fangirl's prep and be inadmissable in favor of B-Dub and Smurph's contention, and all uses of the machine by Fangirl would be nullified in this battle.
3. In regards to Fangirl's dispute over Badabing posting in Smurph's stead due to Smurph currently being on a 1 week suspension, my ruling is in Fangirl's favor. The post which Bada made is inadmissable and will need to be edited out of the thread. The reasoning for this is that around the beginning of the tournament Fangirl was involved in a car accident in the middle of one of her matches and had access issues due to bad internet at the hospital and, well, being laid up in a hospital bed in of itself. She'd asked me via PM for special accomodations (first by asking me to make the posts for her, and then asking whether she could get an extension due to her situation) and I denied her requests on grounds of if I'd granted her special priveleges due to her situation I'd have to do the same for anyone else who may have a situation come up mid match out of fairness, and I didn't want to set that precedent. She accepted my answer and just made due as she could. Out of fairness to her I can't allow Smurph to use a proxy for his battle posting simply because he's temporarily banned, especially since he has a partner. I'm not going to force a forfeiture as Fangirl has asked for, but I am going to rule the post made by Bada on Smurph's behalf inadmissable in this match.
That should just about cover everything in this match. Now I'm off to go play Judge Mathis for the others.
Bada, please edit out your above post and insert a pic of Zod using his heat vision. Thanks. [/B]
Last seen, the Crown and the Throne remained in the Black Tower. A rule out of an item not being in our possession would not be applied since the item still remains in the Black Tower to this date.