Delph's League of Champions Season One Discussion Thread

For added clarification:

illadelph12 wrote on Nov 22nd, 2008 06:41 PM:
If id drafted Cog for 15 it would have to have been the unequipped version (a la Smurph with Boy Blue for 5). Id may have been too slick for his own good when he didn't state what version of Cog he'd drafted.

Per rule, unless stated, you get the current version of the character you drafted. If in fact the current Cog has the Crown and Throne as standard equipment then yes, he's over the salary cap and ineligible, or id drafted the unequipped Cog, who is powerless and doesn't have the Crown.

Either way, he can't bring the Crown/Throne into the battle, and Cog is either the current version with the Crown/Throne as standard equipment and therefore off the team due to a salary cap violation, or he's the depowered version sans the Crown.

Id drafted the current version by rule, regardless of his posted point allotment.

So if everyone just calms down and takes a moment to understand what the ruling is and always has been, you'll see the matter has already settled.

Now, as for whether the Crown resides at the prep area, that's a different matter entirely, and falls under the Brainiac/Miracle Machine ruling.

Originally posted by illadelph12
For added clarification:

You still watching The Godfather?

Yeah, but I needed to download subtitles for it because I don't speak Italian, so I checked in on the board while I was on the PC and chimed in.

I don't see how this works at all. Somehow, having high-level stuff at his prep puts Cog over the cap? But the same doesn't apply to Braniac? From what you're saying, using the Crown during prep SHOULD be legal... but you're saying it's not.

Using the Crown during prep is and would be legal.

The legality issue is that current Cogliostro is empowered by the crown/utilizing the crown as standard equipment in his current role as the new King of Hell. To get him for 15 you'd have had to draft him as "unequipped".

*back to The Godfather. Be back in an hour or so.

Delph...If the crown is standard equipment, wouldn't Cog automatically be over the limits?

Also, how does the King of Hell not have his King of Hell powers as part of his "standard" ensemble? Seems a bit odd that he can use the King's base for prep but be a lowly low meta, yes?

@Kandy - The Crown was ruled as standard items and not base equipment.

Its my understanding that standard equipment would mean, that a character are seen with said item/equipment on a day to day biases. We only seen Cog with the Crown, when he came into possession of it. After that, even in the Tower, he does not wear it.

Originally posted by id369
@Kandy - The Crown was ruled as standard items and not base equipment.

Its my understanding that standard equipment would mean, that a character are seen with said item/equipment on a day to day biases. We only seen Cog with the Crown, when he came into possession of it. After that, even in the Tower, he does not wear it.

But then he must retain his powers even without the crown, right? Otherwise it's a low meta ruling Hell, which obviously makes no sense at all. And if it's a low meta version who isn't the King of Hell, it again begs the question of why he gets to use the King's base for prep.

None of it adds up, imo. It's utter crap.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
But then he must retain his powers even without the crown, right? Otherwise it's a low meta ruling Hell, which obviously makes no sense at all.

If said character slays the former lord, he is directly empowered. However, Cog needed to trick Spawn into renouncing the Crown, so that he could pick it up. He then Depowered Spawn (with the Crown on), and locked himself in the base securing the Throne. To avoid any mess, he granted control to other demons, so he would remain unchallenged.

We have seen, how the throne exists with the Crown in it. We have also seen that the Crown acts as an external device, to empower the host.

Another Exmple: Like wise, Mammon (a Lord of Hell) also wished to attain the powers of God/Satan. His method was not the way, Spawn came to become God like (internalized power). He attempted to jump start, Armageddon so both sides would be occupied with one another, so that he could accesses God’s throne, which would enable him to rule over the entire cosmos.

Based on this information, this is how I came into the conclusion that it’s a base item, that we could make use off.

Yes, but that avoids the 2nd part of my problem. He shouldn't be able to use the Tower (with the Crown) as a base until he's actually the King of it. And by that point, he already has the crown and has his full powers, which are FAR beyond low meta.

Like I said, it's a Catch-22. If he's low meta, he isn't King and shouldn't have the Tower as a base. If he gets the base, he's already King of Hell and thus illegal. Either way, it doesn't work out for you.

Even when he's king, he has no powers when not actively using the crown; he is never shown using it after that incident, and there's no reason to think he has any active powers during that period.

Is it explicitly stated that he has no powers while King (which would be absurd, imo)? Or are you guys trying to play it off like he has none simply because he doesn't have many appearances as the King of Hell? Not using powers doesn't mean he doesn't have them, especially since he did already use them when he first got the Crown. The onus there wouldn't be for us to prove that he has used powers, because he already has, it would be on you to show that he is the King of Hell but at a low meta level.

How many appearances does he have as king, without the crown?

He had no powers when he was on Earth.

He went to hell, and still had no powers.

He used the crown and was able to do many things with it.

Latest Appearances, he doesn't use the crown and doesn't do anything. Given that the crown was what was enabling him to do the things he did, it's highly illogical to say that he has powers without it.

Well and this is where I pleaded the technicality of things. I drafted a King, who is making use of base equipment, based on what was showed. We are told that he holds those items in the tower, he is not shown wearing the Crown as standard equipment.

Did my draft go over the limit? I don’t thinks so, because with out the Crown as standard equipment, he has no powers. Seriously, he purged his Hell Powers long ago, and they certainly did not come back while he was in hell.

I don’t know, I thought I had all my bases covered.

ok, guys I have this whole controversy boiled down the 2 sides:

1 (Id's argument). by proof and onpanel depictions: the crown is CURRENTLY NOT standard equipment and therefore can be used during prep.

reason: because Cog is not shown wearing it.

---

2 (Leo's argument). by logic and extrapolation: the crown SHOULD be standard equipment for Cog and therefore Id's draft is over the limit.

reason: follow this logic proof

1. only powerful beings can rule as king of hell
2. cog is only powerful if he has the crown (in other words, cog without the crown is weak)
3. cog currently rules as king of hell
--- therefore, cog must have the powers of the crown

issue: we know that statements 2 and 3 are factually true. BUT statement 1 isn't necessarily true although it makes logical sense. If id can show that even weak beings can rule hell, then he has a case that Cog doesn't currently possess the powers of the crown even though he rules over hell.

that's what the situation boils down to for me.

Originally posted by Starscream M

issue: we know that statements 2 and 3 are factually true. BUT statement 1 isn't necessarily true although it makes logical sense. If id can show that even weak beings can rule hell, then he has a case that Cog doesn't currently possess the powers of the crown even though he rules over hell.

that's what the situation boils down to for me.

As in the case with Mammon?
http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8918vl3.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8919ui9.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8920gd6.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8921mc0.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8922ws7.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8923gl1.jpg

Originally posted by id369
As in the case with Mammon?
http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8918vl3.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8919ui9.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8920gd6.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8921mc0.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8922ws7.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spawn8923gl1.jpg

There's a propose to start season 2 mid-March (with additional drafts round held in the 1st week of March).

That would be like RL Champions' League format (since the finals of that one are in the 2nd week of December). That gives 3 months of break in between seasons.

Keeping up to real life Champions' League shedule, we can make seasons in spring and autumn, winter and summer being "break" periods (though it's unknown whether or not that project will go beyond 2 seasons).

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
There's a propose to start season 2 mid-March (with additional drafts round held in the 1st week of March).

That would be like RL Champions' League format (since the finals of that one are in the 2nd week of December). That gives 3 months of break in between seasons.

Keeping up to real life Champions' League shedule, we can make seasons in spring and autumn, winter and summer being "break" periods (though it's unknown whether or not that project will go beyond 2 seasons).

hmm, champions league...

*wishes footballers could be draft for ill's tourney, man utd ftw*