Originally posted by Starscream MThat being said, if it's a soul transfer, what's your assessment on whether it's legal or not?
as far as I know, there is not a consensus on what souls are or how they work. So basically, I don't know the first thing about souls.
"How do you copy a soul" seems to indicate that Digi knows that it's not simply memories and experiences, as those can be copied, and have been copied in the past.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I've been a victim of mid-tourney rule changes before. It always sucks, because I do everything in my power (and did this time as well) to explain EVERYTHING about my plan beforehand so that no confusion is present.Knowing what the rules were, I asked delph point blank if I could use souls as information retention. He said yes. I don't know what else to tell you. I didn't try to make the conversation one-sided, because I wanted to avoid sh*t like this. I just told him my idea, and asked if it was ok. He said yes. I didn't even argue for the "yes" side, I just asked the question and he made the ruling off of his interpretation of the rules.
So if you manage to get me d*cked over by getting ill to change his mind, fine. But the fact of the matter is, it would be getting d*cked over, because I said nothing to hide my plan or sway his opinion, and merely asked if the rules (and his ruling) would allow for my plan. So it wouldn't be "new information" or anything like that....it would be a blatant rule change that everyone has been aware of for weeks now (and others have raised the objection too, you're not the first).
bumping this. end of page.
Btw, Smurph, this current discussion aside, would you be opposed to a day or two extension? We literally had about a day, which is ridiculous considering the length of every other match so far. Obviously we're still going to the playoffs, but I'm more than a bit upset that we barely even had a match.
Originally posted by Cavalier
That being said, if it's a soul transfer, what's your assessment on whether it's legal or not?
if its a transfer, then I'm much more inclined to buy Digi's argument that Marvel's powers would be gained.
If its a copy, I'd be much more skeptical about him able to gain Marvel's powers...because I don't think that copies retain that mystical aspect.
Originally posted by DigiMark007Fair enough, but after talking to Delph, I got the impression that he agreed it after seeing the same argument that Masterbruce saw: that there was a possibility to argue that souls were comprised only of memories and experience (or something along those lines).
Of course it's not memories and experiences and nothing else. That's kinda the point.
That would explain his caveat about proving that having the "soul" grants you the Marvel's power.
Truth be told, I don't know how Delph thinks, but I do know that this whole move isn't legal. Sucks that you might get screwed so late into the game, but here we are.
Originally posted by DigiMark007I'm not opposed, but I don't feel strongly either way. Sucks that you only got one post in though...
Btw, Smurph, this current discussion aside, would you be opposed to a day or two extension? We literally had about a day, which is ridiculous considering the length of every other match so far. Obviously we're still going to the playoffs, but I'm more than a bit upset that we barely even had a match.
Originally posted by Starscream MI'm talking about legality, not power.
if its a transfer, then I'm much more inclined to buy Digi's argument that Marvel's powers would be gained.If its a copy, I'd be much more skeptical about him able to gain Marvel's powers...because I don't think that copies retain that mystical aspect.
I only had 1 more post and a brief scans post, so it's not that I need the last post...it's just that with your paragraph-long writeup, i had no time at all to respond to your actual arguments. I'd feel fine if you responded to those and so on...it just seemed like it wasn't an actual debate because there were no opportunities for counter-arguments.
I made the request to delph, though.
...
And as it pertains to the soul thing, I directly told him that it was a soul, and that it went beyond memories/instincts/etc. He knew what he was approving. So like I said, it wouldn't be new information or something...it would be a blatant flip-flop that I had no way of controlling.
And therefore it shouldn't happen. My plan is still legal until ruled otherwise. And it would be a supremely d*ck move to change the ruling now, since nothing was hidden from him. It was ruled ok, and is therefore ok until ruled otherwise. I realize you don't like it, but you don't have to.
Originally posted by DigiMark007how is this any different from the id/kandy situation?
And it would be a supremely d*ck move to change the ruling now, since nothing was hidden from him. It was ruled ok, and is therefore ok until ruled otherwise. I realize you don't like it, but you don't have to.
in that case, id also hid nothing from delph and laid out his plan clearly, which Delph okayed.
also Digi, your own words (from your PM to Delph) here trouble me:
"But the person actually resides in Minion thereafter....almost like a soul, but it functions exactly like a mind."
I know that you are someone who chooses their words carefully. You state 'ALMOST' like a soul instead of saying that it is their soul. This is why I asked whether it was a transferance (in which case, it wouldn't be almost like a soul...but rather it is the soul) or a copying (in which case...almost like a soul applies)
now maybe I'm just getting too much into semantics but you can clear that up
Originally posted by Cavalier
I've talked to Delph personally, and that didn't seem to be his recollection, so I'd like some proof plz.Joel says:
so, last time I talked to you about Digi's tactic, I think what was said was this (correct me if I'm wrong):
Joel says:
you told Digi that it was up to him to argue the logistics of keeping the powers from match to match
Joel says:
and that there was an issue about whether souls count as info that can be retained, but that it was up to Digi to argue
Joel says:
am I close?
Delph says:
Pretty much
scott says:
quit name dropping
😐
😛
Originally posted by Starscream M
also Digi, your own words (from your PM to Delph) here trouble me:"But the person actually resides in Minion thereafter....almost like a soul, but it functions exactly like a mind."
I know that you are someone who chooses their words carefully. You state 'ALMOST' like a soul instead of saying that it is their soul. This is why I asked whether it was a transferance (in which case, it wouldn't be almost like a soul...but rather it is the soul) or a copying (in which case...almost like a soul applies)
now maybe I'm just getting too much into semantics but you can clear that up
That was the first PM, when I was still getting to know the details myself. Read the rest. There's no if's about it by the 2nd PM, where he still ok's it.
Originally posted by Starscream M
how is this any different from the id/kandy situation?in that case, id also hid nothing from delph and laid out his plan clearly, which Delph okayed.
In the id situation, delph changed his ruling based on new information, since he didn't understand everything properly during the first PMs. Whereas this time I laid out everything from the start and nothing has changed. It wouldn't be changing a ruling based on new information, as id's was. It would just be a rule change mid-tourney.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
In the id situation, delph changed his ruling based on new information, since he didn't understand everything properly during the first PMs. Whereas this time I laid out everything from the start and nothing has changed. It wouldn't be changing a ruling based on new information, as id's was. It would just be a rule change mid-tourney.
I'm trying to explain why this should be legal. There wasn't really any new info, just some arguments. It's legal imo. Here's why in my view.
Cog didn't have any powers before he got the crown, and even when he went to hell, he didn't get his powers back. Then he got the crown, still with no powers. The crown let him preform good feats, and from then on he is never shown with it. He has two appearances afterwards, and neither have him with the crown. So, given how the majority of his appearances before and after don't show him with any power, and he only ever used the Crown once, it isn't standard equipment. He still HAS the crown, but he doesn't wear it or use it, just keeps it. So, it's a base item in my view.
This is the exact same precedent as the miracle machine ruling. There is not an atom of difference between the two, rules wise.