http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=492952&pagenumber=50
The transaction thread, hope that helps.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Same was with high meta tier, though (low level mages and matter manipulators being allowed)...
I see you're trying to make it more "blast and punch" thingy... And admit that Angie is "the hawt pick" for the tier- have quite a few strategies involving her, personally, and id also wanted her in his roster.The idea that was floating around at the end of season 1 were "home battlefields" (traps in prep and all kinds of that). That actually could have made repetitive matches less boring when 2 teams have to meet each other twice during regular season...
😕
I'm not trying to make it anything. I'm just telling you that making Angie a tech cap is essentially saying there is no tech cap.
Originally posted by Digi
😕I'm not trying to make it anything. I'm just telling you that making Angie a tech cap is essentially saying there is no tech cap.
Agree with your point of view, though stated Angie only as the most famous tech char from the tier.
As long as there's no treanscendent over-the-top stuff like Miracle Machine, Infinity Gems, Crown of Hell etc, I'm pretty fine with the results of Angie powers, matter manip etc. Just no Ultimate Nullifiers and stuff like that, please.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Same was with high meta tier, though (low level mages and matter manipulators being allowed)...
I see you're trying to make it more "blast and punch" thingy... And admit that Angie is "the hawt pick" for the tier- have quite a few strategies involving her, personally, and id also wanted her in his roster.The idea that was floating around at the end of season 1 were "home battlefields" (traps in prep and all kinds of that). That actually could have made repetitive matches less boring when 2 teams have to meet each other twice during regular season...
Yeah, I had that idea as well. You wouldn't be able to set traps or manipulated the battlefield in your favor, but you would be able to pick a battlefield that could play to your strengths (like, for example, drafting Sandman and having the Sahara as your home field).
A proposal. Allow 3 (three) semi-independent constructs per team (not exceeding low-herald'ish power level). By semi-independent construct I mean:
a)a character sharing his\her mind between different bodies (i.e. Angie and her dupes which is actually multiple vessels for the same mind, which gets spread between them; a character (i.e. Sandman or Iceman) animating multiple bodies for his consciousness from the stuff around the battlefield);
b)employing "puppets" (created constructs that are animated magically\telekinetically AND have limited independence (no need for the creator to direct miniscule tasks beyond general command) but cease to exist when a character\amalgam who created them is out of combat yet KOed).
Ban:
1. Multiple-Man-style dupes *Angie-style is fine, as her "dupes" are nanotech constructs with fractions of her mind*
2. Actual summons of NPC demons and stuff
3. Constructs that doesn't require any kind of command to operate and doesn't get disabled when the creator\operator is out of combat
---------------
That also elimanates controversies such as "highly adaptive programming of T-spheres" which has become widely-usable loophole in the tourney.
Anouther route is not to fix the exact number of non-independent\semi-independent constructs per team, but state that a)it should be no less than 3; b)collective power of them shouldn't be more than 3x low herald (or keep the power proportional to the number of constucts, the cap for max power of one constuct being 1 average low herald being; cap per team=3 low herald constructs).
The cap for semi-independent constructs can be set even at Iron Man level, due to the difficulty of proposing tech cap for low herald level.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
Why are Angie dupes fine?
Cause they're not "dupes" per say (AKA you can't duplicate an amalgam that way) but nanotech constructs sharing fragments of her mind (AKA not duping but spreading out a body). Those are also not independent (Engineer is just a good multitasker, being able to animate multiple "bodies" for her mind at once). Many "disembodied consciousness" characters (Iceman, Sandman, Metamorpho) can do the same thing- that's not duplication, that's using the andvantage of separable body (Angie is just good enough of a multitasker to make her "dupes" appear as independent).
I can't see how that can be treated as "amalgam-friendly" dupes since those are nanotech constructs with the fraction of user's mind and won't carry ANY non-nanotech related powers. Since Angie's powers are all nanotech-related, the illusion of full-fledged dupes (repeating the physiology of original) is created. You cannot duplicate an amalgam that way (or at least make dupes with offensive power>regular Angie).
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBelIf you dont amalgamate Angie though, they would be full fledged dupes.
Cause they're not "dupes" per say (AKA you can't duplicate an amalgam that way) but nanotech constructs sharing fragments of her mind (AKA not duping but spreading out a body). Those are also not independent (Engineer is just a good multitasker, being able to animate multiple "bodies" for her mind at once). Many "disembodied consciousness" characters (Iceman, Sandman, Metamorpho) can do the same thing- that's not duplication, that's using the andvantage of separable body (Angie is just good enough of a multitasker to make her "dupes" appear as independent).I can't see how that can be treated as "amalgam-friendly" dupes since those are nanotech constructs with the fraction of user's mind and won't carry ANY non-nanotech related powers. Since Angie's powers are all nanotech-related, the illusion of full-fledged dupes (repeating the physiology of original) is created. You cannot duplicate an amalgam that way (or at least make dupes with offensive power>regular Angie).
Is there proof that taking out Angie takes out the rest of them?
1. Proof that dupes ARE constructs and de-facto AREN'T independent (and that any major distraction of Angie from controlling them makes them totally useless- she can't even talk via radiotelepathy while animating those "dupes"😉.
2. "Spreading my brain Kate Moss-thin across all those multiple bodies..."- doesn't sound like proper duplication IMO, more like "spreading the counsciousness" (which I argue, BTW in season 1 Delph has ruled those kinds of constructs- totally controlled by the mind of creator and becoming non-functional should he be distracted or KOed- as legal).
Originally posted by Original Smurph
I have more questions, but I'll leave them alone for now until we have an actual ruling regarding dupes.
The thing I propose is separating dupes and "one mind in multiple bodies" thing... along with need for better clarification what counts as independent\not independent construct.
Originally posted by Original Smurph
I have more questions, but I'll leave them alone for now until we have an actual ruling regarding dupes.
Dupes are currently banned per Season One rules. If you want to make them legal you guys will have to vote on a rule change. I'll enforce the rules that you all propose and vote on, using the established rules as a base to build on.
